That's funny Jhhnn, since you keep referring to the massacres, while ignoring all the past Arab massacres and riots.
They must not have happened, since you don't acknowledge them.
They must not have happened, since you don't acknowledge them.
Hmm... Just curious to see your remarkable logic at work:
How exactly is 1967 Israel's fault? And I suppose there was no problem with the PLO being in Lebanon in 1982, right?
Heh.... and if some criticizes Hezbollah, the Palestinians, or dares voice some support for Israel, then they are automatically labeled as Zionist pigs, bent on world domniation. (for examples, check Jhhn's previous message in this thread)
Either that, or they get beaten up, and charged with sedition, with a possible death penalty. (Link)
Either that, or they get beaten up, and charged with sedition, with a possible death penalty. (Link)
I've acknowledged them, dna- I furnished the link, remember?
Massacres by arabs at the time weren't part of an official policy of terrorism and intimidation as practiced by the zionists, they were acts of civilians or of poorly discipled irregulars. Of the 24 cases in the Wiki link, 17 were performed by highly organized israeli militias...
Even the worst of the arab actions, at kfar etzion, carry echoes of previous zionist atrocities. Read the accounts of the survivors-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kfar_Etzion_massacre
Commanders lost control of their troops, even killed them to protect jewish prisoners.
Zionist policy of the time called for the displacement of the indigenous population to make way for the new order, which they did using the tactics of terror and murder- really very straightforward, whether you choose to recognize it or not. That policy remains basically unchanged today, with the resort to murder mostly unnecessary- various legalisms are employed to extract the wealth of pals within the area of Israeli control, with walls and fences built to isolate pals from their means of survival, all kinds of restrictions and regulations enacted to restrict movement and the ability to earn a living... along with a variety of indignities designed to foster violence, violence that can be used to justify further expropriation and repression.
Massacres by arabs at the time weren't part of an official policy of terrorism and intimidation as practiced by the zionists, they were acts of civilians or of poorly discipled irregulars. Of the 24 cases in the Wiki link, 17 were performed by highly organized israeli militias...
Even the worst of the arab actions, at kfar etzion, carry echoes of previous zionist atrocities. Read the accounts of the survivors-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kfar_Etzion_massacre
Commanders lost control of their troops, even killed them to protect jewish prisoners.
Zionist policy of the time called for the displacement of the indigenous population to make way for the new order, which they did using the tactics of terror and murder- really very straightforward, whether you choose to recognize it or not. That policy remains basically unchanged today, with the resort to murder mostly unnecessary- various legalisms are employed to extract the wealth of pals within the area of Israeli control, with walls and fences built to isolate pals from their means of survival, all kinds of restrictions and regulations enacted to restrict movement and the ability to earn a living... along with a variety of indignities designed to foster violence, violence that can be used to justify further expropriation and repression.
You keep focusing on the events that happened right before the war, and after years of assaults and riots by "poorly discipled irregulars".
There must be a reason why you focus on 1948, and don't want to go a decade or two back....
There must be a reason why you focus on 1948, and don't want to go a decade or two back....
you are really not open to anything new here, its now obvios that you are just here to preech your own opinions, its pointless talking to you about this topic
Go ahead -- I'm sure you'll manage fabricate a fact or two, demonstrating that it was Israel's fault.
You have yet to put your "new" into words.
All you want is for me to answer "yes" or "no" to a hypothetical question, in order for you to then draw some wild conclusions, and make your point.
Sorry, you'll have to tango all on your own.
what you are doing is refusing to discuss this because you are not looking for a discussion you are looking for a I'm right and your wrong argument
Exactly the wild conclusion I was expecting.
If you have a valid argument, then you should be able to present it regardless of whether I say "yes" or "no". What would you do if I reply "maybe"?
I could ask you the same kind of questions that lead nowhere, e.g. Would they have left if the Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraqn and Yemen didn't attack?
You're anwer won't be of much value, nor could it be the basis of a sound argument.
Speaking of sound argument, dna, you haven't made one yet, just rehashed the usual Israeli agitprop, and have been reduced to denial, sputtering and personal attack.
Stick a fork in yourself- you're done.
Stick a fork in yourself- you're done.
Let's see now:
Yet you still have the audacity to accuse me of personal attacks... nice.
And I suppose your rhetoric doesn't follow the line anti-Israeli propaganda machine, right?
Forget the fork, you're burnt...
- You've accused me of being brainwashed
- You've bemoaned about the poor Arab goverments having to deal with the Palestinians
- You've ignored facts left and right
Yet you still have the audacity to accuse me of personal attacks... nice.
And I suppose your rhetoric doesn't follow the line anti-Israeli propaganda machine, right?
Forget the fork, you're burnt...
"As for the Palestinians having their own govt, Kursk Knyaz- govt over what? over a truncated territory separated and surrounded by Israeli walls and fences, where the fields in their backyard can only be accessed through a long Israeli enforced detour around their security arrangements, with checkpoints open or closed at the whim of the israeli govt?Homes demolished because they didn't have building permits, issued by the Israeli govt? Fields and orchards dried up because they can't get permits to repair their wells, permits issued by the Israeli govt? Cities and towns subject to military incursion at the whim of the Israeli govt? A democratically elected govt that the Israelis refuse to recognize? "
...and why are those fences and checkpoints there? Because Arafat has been giving a blind eye to terrorist organizations for decades until they grew powerful enough to challenge his governing body. The Palestinian government's policy is responsible for the conditions today, through indifference towards terrorists and corruption. The reason terrorist groups became so popular in the first place is because they are the ones that build schools, hospitals, and created a welfare system while Arafat was pocketing money from the EU. It must be bad to wake up every morning to a 25 foot concrete slab but that wall is currently the most reasonable solution to 17 year old girls that strap themselves with explosives and wipe out entire families in hotel lobbies. ...the towns will continue to be subject to incursions as long as there are terrorist groups operating there. Don't fire rockets at Israeli towns if you don't like incursions.
There is a lot of misdirected anger among the Palestinians. They have been screwed over by there on government. You don't think so? Why is it that whenever someone ran alongside Arafat they resigned? Why is it that at one point Arafat's entire parliament resigned? There was raw sewage flowing through Rhamalla until Israel accepted Palestinian workers, and allowed some buildup of the Palestinian economy - something that the neighboring Arab countries refused to do over and over again. It is amazing that Hamas only won by 70% of the vote, historically, when corrupt governments that have been ruling for decades, allow a 2nd party to run, that 2nd party usually wins by close to 90%. Maybe there is hope after all.
The area IS self governed otherwise there would not be a terrorist group in power right now. The failure of Arafat's PA has a lot of responsibility for today's conditions. There could have been a Palestinian state twice already.
...and about the government not recognizing Hamas. That?s wrong not to recognize a government that, not only refuses to recognize you, but has sworn to your destruction?
...and why are those fences and checkpoints there? Because Arafat has been giving a blind eye to terrorist organizations for decades until they grew powerful enough to challenge his governing body. The Palestinian government's policy is responsible for the conditions today, through indifference towards terrorists and corruption. The reason terrorist groups became so popular in the first place is because they are the ones that build schools, hospitals, and created a welfare system while Arafat was pocketing money from the EU. It must be bad to wake up every morning to a 25 foot concrete slab but that wall is currently the most reasonable solution to 17 year old girls that strap themselves with explosives and wipe out entire families in hotel lobbies. ...the towns will continue to be subject to incursions as long as there are terrorist groups operating there. Don't fire rockets at Israeli towns if you don't like incursions.
There is a lot of misdirected anger among the Palestinians. They have been screwed over by there on government. You don't think so? Why is it that whenever someone ran alongside Arafat they resigned? Why is it that at one point Arafat's entire parliament resigned? There was raw sewage flowing through Rhamalla until Israel accepted Palestinian workers, and allowed some buildup of the Palestinian economy - something that the neighboring Arab countries refused to do over and over again. It is amazing that Hamas only won by 70% of the vote, historically, when corrupt governments that have been ruling for decades, allow a 2nd party to run, that 2nd party usually wins by close to 90%. Maybe there is hope after all.
The area IS self governed otherwise there would not be a terrorist group in power right now. The failure of Arafat's PA has a lot of responsibility for today's conditions. There could have been a Palestinian state twice already.
...and about the government not recognizing Hamas. That?s wrong not to recognize a government that, not only refuses to recognize you, but has sworn to your destruction?
...so? Whats the big deal? Depleted uranium is used in tank ammunition. Its almost as hard as tungsten and easily avaiable.
...people seem to think that anything with a raioactive metal in it is a nuke. Its not.
...people seem to think that anything with a raioactive metal in it is a nuke. Its not.
"That policy remains basically unchanged today, with the resort to murder mostly unnecessary- various legalisms are employed to extract the wealth of pals within the area of Israeli control, with walls and fences built to isolate pals from their means of survival, all kinds of restrictions and regulations enacted to restrict movement and the ability to earn a living... along with a variety of indignities designed to foster violence, violence that can be used to justify further expropriation and repression."
Half of the palestinian population was unemploed before the wall.
...as I have said before, no terrorism, no wall. Look, someone has to stop people from blowing themselves up on buses full of civilians. What indignities? Checkpoints? Like I said before...
Half of the palestinian population was unemploed before the wall.
...as I have said before, no terrorism, no wall. Look, someone has to stop people from blowing themselves up on buses full of civilians. What indignities? Checkpoints? Like I said before...
You?re trying to use strictly history for your argument against Israel. You can continue a pissing match about who massacred who 50 years ago all you want. It doesn?t justify state sanctioned terrorism today and it doesn?t justify that a Jewish state should fade out of existence. All states are created by displacing local populations. Its clear that there were atrocities on both sides. You think you can just say ?that wasn?t fair 50 years ago so Jews, get out? any more than you can say ?Palestinians never had a state so they are not entitled to one?
Israel has moved on to a more realistic approach to dealing with the problem that is not anywhere on the level of Hamas?s fantasy of destroying the Jewish state. The Palestinian government on the other hand has been very incompetent, rejected statehood twice, and continued to make the mess it inherited decades ago far worse.
Israel has moved on to a more realistic approach to dealing with the problem that is not anywhere on the level of Hamas?s fantasy of destroying the Jewish state. The Palestinian government on the other hand has been very incompetent, rejected statehood twice, and continued to make the mess it inherited decades ago far worse.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 20K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 12K
-
Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)- Started by Vattila
- Replies: 13K
-
Facebook
Twitter