dennilfloss
Past Lifer 1957-2014 In Memoriam
Well honestly I can not comment on the above speculation, since I have not seen any evidence of it. However what always strikes me as odd, if anyone criticizes anything done by Israel, they are automatically labelled anti-semitic. Last time I checked, Jews were human too, and therefore are capable of making mistakes as well. I guess whenever they do make a mistake everyone is forbidden to talk about it, unless they want to be called an anti-semite.
Heh. It's fine if the Israelis attack the fledgling govt of Lebanon, formerly protected by the Syrian military, and, when they knew they would withdraw, effectively mined the southern quarter of the country with unexploded cluster munitions. They blasted civilian infrastructure throughout Lebanon, even in the northern Beirut suburbs inhabited by their Christian allies, created a million refugees in the process.
What part of "Jewish State" do you fail to understand as being apartheid? How does it differ from, say, "Aryan Nation"? What part of territorial expansion into the West Bank fails to satisfy the definition of expansionist aggression? What aspect of squeezing Palestinians into smaller and smaller ghettoes that can't support themselves doesn't qualify as expropriation and oppression?
White Phosphorus is the least of their sins. Oh, wait, they're God's Chosen, doing God's Work to make real God's Covenant of Greater Israel, so they can't possibly sin in the process... that would be an oxymoron, right?
And, if you don't believe any of that, then the Holocaust obviously gives the descendants of the survivors of that atrocity a get out of jail free card that they can use whenever they run roughshod over their neighbors, right? If one criticizes the State of Israel, then they're criticizing Jews, which makes them an anti-semite, lower than child molesters... because Jews are victims of the Holocaust, right?
Funny how we don't grant the same privilege to the Nazis' other victims- the Romani, Poles, and Russians. Maybe they haven't exploited our misplaced sense of guilt nearly as well as the Israelis, either...
What part of "Jewish State" do you fail to understand as being apartheid? How does it differ from, say, "Aryan Nation"? What part of territorial expansion into the West Bank fails to satisfy the definition of expansionist aggression? What aspect of squeezing Palestinians into smaller and smaller ghettoes that can't support themselves doesn't qualify as expropriation and oppression?
White Phosphorus is the least of their sins. Oh, wait, they're God's Chosen, doing God's Work to make real God's Covenant of Greater Israel, so they can't possibly sin in the process... that would be an oxymoron, right?
And, if you don't believe any of that, then the Holocaust obviously gives the descendants of the survivors of that atrocity a get out of jail free card that they can use whenever they run roughshod over their neighbors, right? If one criticizes the State of Israel, then they're criticizing Jews, which makes them an anti-semite, lower than child molesters... because Jews are victims of the Holocaust, right?
Funny how we don't grant the same privilege to the Nazis' other victims- the Romani, Poles, and Russians. Maybe they haven't exploited our misplaced sense of guilt nearly as well as the Israelis, either...
White phosphorus isn't entirely banned but the Red Cross and other human rights organisations want to ban it because of the severe burns it causes. The last to use WP were the US in Falluja in 2004. Both armies argued with the legality of WP and initially said they use it for "battlefield illumination".
Cluster bombs are a real worry in Lebanon. International teams so far defused about 500 dud "bomblets". It is estimated that a few thousand duds are left, spread in lebanon. Cluster bomblets have led to 20 post-war civil casualties so far. I think cluster bombs should become illegal too, because of their high dud rate and inaccuracy.
Cluster bombs are a real worry in Lebanon. International teams so far defused about 500 dud "bomblets". It is estimated that a few thousand duds are left, spread in lebanon. Cluster bomblets have led to 20 post-war civil casualties so far. I think cluster bombs should become illegal too, because of their high dud rate and inaccuracy.
Orignal Earl
Diamond Member
- Oct 27, 2005
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few thousand? make that a bigger number, alot bigger
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5382192.stm
"Up to a million cluster bomblets discharged by Israel in its conflict with Hezbollah remain unexploded in southern Lebanon, the UN has said.
The UN's mine disposal agency says about 40% of the cluster bombs fired or dropped by Israel failed to detonate - three times the UN's previous estimate.
It says the problem could delay the return home of about 200,000 displaced people by up to two years. "
not forgetting that most of the cluster bombs were dropped during the last days of the war, during the time they were finalizing the peace deal
and
http://www.landmineaction.org/
"Foreseeable Harm: The use and impact of cluster munitions in Lebanon: 2006
Landmine Action October 2006
This new report from Landmine Action provides a detailed analysis of the impact of cluster munitions in Lebanon. It shows not only the ongoing casualties caused by these weapons but also the severe impact of cluster munition contamination on agriculture, water supply and reconstruction. The report highlights the failings of the international community to address the problems caused by these weapons and calls for new rules of international humanitarian law to prohibit the use, production, stockpiling and transfer of cluster munitions.
Download Full Report"
http://www.landmineaction.org/resources/ForeseeableHarmfinal.pdf
from the report
"Two monthsafter the ceasefire of14 August2006, the contamination caused bycluster munitionswasstillexacting
a dailytollin south Lebanon. Over thisperiod an average ofbetween 3 and 4 civilianshad been killed or injured by
unexploded submunitionseveryday? some 35% ofthese casualtieswere children. Civilian casualtieswillcontinue
to rise asmore and more people return to siftthrough the cluster munition infested rubble."
"7
UNIFILobserver reportssuggestthat90 percentofthe cluster munitionswere fired in the last72 hoursofthe conflict.
Israeli soldiershave stated thatover 1,800 cluster rocketscontaining 1.2 million submunitionswere fired during this
three dayperiod. The totalnumber ofsubmunitionsused willbe much higher when the quantitiesofartillerylaunched
and aerialdelivered cluster munitionsare taken into account. One Israeli commander described the cluster munition
8
In onlyone month after the ceasefire bomb disposalteamshad destroyed over
attacksas?insane and monstrous.?
25,000 submunitions. Three daysofindiscriminate cluster munition use have lefta deadlylegacyin southern Lebanon
thatwilltake yearsto clear up.
In the course ofthese attacks, Israelappearsto have (again) violated a 1976 secretagreementthatplaced restrictions
9
on the country?suse ofcertain U.S.-supplied cluster munitions.
The repeated violationsofthisagreementsince the
1970shighlightthe complete inadequacyofsuch bilateralassurance asa basisfor civilian protection from these
weapons. Despite such repeated breaches, the U.S. agreed a license worth $615,496 for the sale of1,300 M26 cluster
10
Israelrequested expedited deliveryofthese rocketsduring the war in Lebanon, but(atthe
rocketsto Israelin 2005.
11
The repeated failure ofsuch bilateral
time ofwriting) the U.S. State Departmentwasstillconsidering the situation.
agreementsto preventcivilian harm indicatesthe need for statesto develop an internationalarmstrade treaty."
And take note, the date of the deal is 1976, and from the start of the report.
"For fortyyears? from Laosto Lebanon ? cluster munitionshave caused unnecessarysuffering
both atthe time ofattacksand for yearsafterwards. Lebanon wasalreadycontaminated with unexploded
dudsfrom previousIsraeli incursionsin 1978and 1983."
so this is the third time Israel breaks this deal.
Read the report, even just for the key findings.
http://www.landmineaction.org/
"Foreseeable Harm: The use and impact of cluster munitions in Lebanon: 2006
Landmine Action October 2006
This new report from Landmine Action provides a detailed analysis of the impact of cluster munitions in Lebanon. It shows not only the ongoing casualties caused by these weapons but also the severe impact of cluster munition contamination on agriculture, water supply and reconstruction. The report highlights the failings of the international community to address the problems caused by these weapons and calls for new rules of international humanitarian law to prohibit the use, production, stockpiling and transfer of cluster munitions.
Download Full Report"
http://www.landmineaction.org/resources/ForeseeableHarmfinal.pdf
from the report
"Two monthsafter the ceasefire of14 August2006, the contamination caused bycluster munitionswasstillexacting
a dailytollin south Lebanon. Over thisperiod an average ofbetween 3 and 4 civilianshad been killed or injured by
unexploded submunitionseveryday? some 35% ofthese casualtieswere children. Civilian casualtieswillcontinue
to rise asmore and more people return to siftthrough the cluster munition infested rubble."
"7
UNIFILobserver reportssuggestthat90 percentofthe cluster munitionswere fired in the last72 hoursofthe conflict.
Israeli soldiershave stated thatover 1,800 cluster rocketscontaining 1.2 million submunitionswere fired during this
three dayperiod. The totalnumber ofsubmunitionsused willbe much higher when the quantitiesofartillerylaunched
and aerialdelivered cluster munitionsare taken into account. One Israeli commander described the cluster munition
8
In onlyone month after the ceasefire bomb disposalteamshad destroyed over
attacksas?insane and monstrous.?
25,000 submunitions. Three daysofindiscriminate cluster munition use have lefta deadlylegacyin southern Lebanon
thatwilltake yearsto clear up.
In the course ofthese attacks, Israelappearsto have (again) violated a 1976 secretagreementthatplaced restrictions
9
on the country?suse ofcertain U.S.-supplied cluster munitions.
The repeated violationsofthisagreementsince the
1970shighlightthe complete inadequacyofsuch bilateralassurance asa basisfor civilian protection from these
weapons. Despite such repeated breaches, the U.S. agreed a license worth $615,496 for the sale of1,300 M26 cluster
10
Israelrequested expedited deliveryofthese rocketsduring the war in Lebanon, but(atthe
rocketsto Israelin 2005.
11
The repeated failure ofsuch bilateral
time ofwriting) the U.S. State Departmentwasstillconsidering the situation.
agreementsto preventcivilian harm indicatesthe need for statesto develop an internationalarmstrade treaty."
And take note, the date of the deal is 1976, and from the start of the report.
"For fortyyears? from Laosto Lebanon ? cluster munitionshave caused unnecessarysuffering
both atthe time ofattacksand for yearsafterwards. Lebanon wasalreadycontaminated with unexploded
dudsfrom previousIsraeli incursionsin 1978and 1983."
so this is the third time Israel breaks this deal.
Read the report, even just for the key findings.
White Phosphorus.
THe missle wasa banned weapon? Because that's the topic. Though, since you brought it up, the aspirin factory was another of the numerous failures of teh "Intelligence" community. Or would you argue that "Democrats" made the decision to strike that facility for the heck of it. Like I called Bill? ANd said, "yo, Bill, launch a missle into an aspirin factory somewhere."
Dumbas*
Linky
Fortunately, just like Israel supporters claim Israel never broke the Geneva treaty because they never signed the part forbidding the use of these weapons Hezbollah can use chemical, biological or nuclear weapons and claim it never broke it either :roll:
It's like the treaties concerning nuclear weaponry, which the US calls upon to demand other countries give up nuclear aspirations, while the US still has the largest nuclear arsenal and has no plans of giving it up.
Demand that others do what you do not plan on doing yourself.
For all of you still masturbating over the news of a little bit of WP:
Hezbollah used cluster munitions in war with Israel: HRW
And for those who the word Nazi triggers an instant orgasm:
Nazi1
Mufti Photos
Hitler, The Mufti Of Jerusalem And Modern Islamo Nazism
And finally, since I see that the word "apartheid" has become a buzzword for some: 18.5% of Israeli citizens are Arab, who can vote, and are represented in parlament.
Sure, I won't claim there is total equality, but show me where such a thing exists; also, some Israeli Arabs have been caught aiding terrorists from the territories, so you can hardly expect full trust. That is why I suggest you read a little bit about apartheid, instead of making an ass of yourselves.
So far all I've been hearing is about the poor Palestinians, poor Lebanese, yet no comment, or even acknowledgment of the terrorism practiced by both. I'm not the kind to label people anti-semite (as that has become a sort of buzzword as well), but you are obviously biased, even though you try to keep up this facade of objectivity.
Hezbollah used cluster munitions in war with Israel: HRW
And for those who the word Nazi triggers an instant orgasm:
Nazi1
Mufti Photos
Hitler, The Mufti Of Jerusalem And Modern Islamo Nazism
And finally, since I see that the word "apartheid" has become a buzzword for some: 18.5% of Israeli citizens are Arab, who can vote, and are represented in parlament.
Sure, I won't claim there is total equality, but show me where such a thing exists; also, some Israeli Arabs have been caught aiding terrorists from the territories, so you can hardly expect full trust. That is why I suggest you read a little bit about apartheid, instead of making an ass of yourselves.
So far all I've been hearing is about the poor Palestinians, poor Lebanese, yet no comment, or even acknowledgment of the terrorism practiced by both. I'm not the kind to label people anti-semite (as that has become a sort of buzzword as well), but you are obviously biased, even though you try to keep up this facade of objectivity.
Kinda like how i love China :heart: Those that know me know i live China....You can check any of my old posts. It really doesnt make any sense either. i dont care what they do.....i just like them. They can do the worst things and even torture those falun gong people and harvest organs, but i dont care, i loves me some China. just like America and Israel... Its kinda weird and sometimes i know that i shouldnt love them and they do bad....but it just doesnt matter, i always fight that feeling of guilt and end up loving them even more. So if China use banned weapons, i wouldnt care, i would just find a reason to apologize for them, because hey, they know whats best, and they never lie....even if he bodies were coming from residential areas.
And the best part is, bible prophecy says that the chosen people in this day would not even know it.... hehe so i guess jews arent really jews?
The only thing that matters with regards to this story, is that all of those weapons say, "Made in the USA".
What a bunch of jokers: can't make an argument based on real-world facts, so they start babbeling about loony-bible-voodoo matters.
Even that pseudo-comparison to China doesn't hold, as there are plenty "dissenters" in Israel, and unlike in China, they don't disappear into forced labor camps, nor do they get charged with treason, convicted, executed, and cremated -- all before you could count to ten.
Even that pseudo-comparison to China doesn't hold, as there are plenty "dissenters" in Israel, and unlike in China, they don't disappear into forced labor camps, nor do they get charged with treason, convicted, executed, and cremated -- all before you could count to ten.
I doesnt matter, i still love china. and that wasnt a comparison, i really mean it. look at my post history.
Show me a source before playing this down as a "little bit". So far we don't know how much WP was used.
Hezbollah using Chinese cluster rockets is bad news and a demonstration that this organisation is dangerous and knows where to get its arms. However the IDF used more cluster bombs. Hezbollah fired about 4000 rockets of which i believe fairly few were carrying bomblets. Israel on the other hand used about 1800 cluster bombs, delivering about 1.2 million bomblets (source). The IDF launched most of the cluster bombs in the last three days of the conflict (source). The IDF used cluster bombs in 1982, too (source).
ps. Of course this is nothing compared with the atrocities of China and obviously there is no Apartheid in Israel... There are no Arab Israeli in the IDF but that's about it. It's just that I sometimes wonder how conflicts involving a democracy can countinue for so much time... I wish I had an instant solution to the Middle East problems but I don't... So I just think it's bad advice to Israel to use such unpredictable weapons like WP and cluster bombs.
Have you seen piles and piles of bodies? Are there thousands of casualties?
Given the spin Hezbollah managed in Qana -- as well as the ambulance story -- I'm a little bit cynic about how much was used against civlians, since after all, that was the purpose of this thread -- to make a comparison between a little bit of WP and the Nazi gas chambers.
Wrong: Arabs are not required to serve, but a few do.
- Aug 22, 2001
- 29,452
- 24,133
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I lean left on some issues, this isn't one of them. I'm very pro-Israel and the anti-Israel propaganda campaign has been continuously ramping up steadily, so :thumbsup: for you guys who are actively fighting agaisnt it.
that bolded bit is only those launched from airstrikes, does not include the ones fired by artillery, which is alot when the estimate for unexploded bomblets is about 1 million
So it's OK if Hiszbullah uses chemical weapons against military targets in Israel?
I don't know, why don't YOU tell us. The last mini-war in Lebanon was a total war against civilian targets and civilian population. Israel indiscriminantly shelled and bombed airports, ports, roads, bridges, hospitals, whole residential neighborhoods were flattened. They showed how good they were at war against civilians, but had their behinds kicked by Hizbollah and had to go back to Israel with their collective tail between their collective legs.
Maybe because the ratio of civilians to military killed by Israel is about 100:1, many Israeli generals and lower rank don't dare show their faces in Europe where warrants wait for them?
Edit: typos.
and a military target in the middle of a civilian neighborhood, which of course was hijacked by militants. great logic there
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