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Isn't T1 obsolete?

M

montypythizzle

Diamond Member
i have a 10mb/1mb connection at my house for 50 bux from cable company and always is the advertised speed
the only reason i could see why it is used is because it is always 1.5mb no matter the payload
 
reliability, testing and repair capabilities, uptime, dedicated point-to-point connection, can run any layer2 protocol you want

 
I don't think their obselete at all, for the reasons Spidey mentioned. There are still places that don't have cable service but DO have phone and you can get a T1 from that, though it is much more costly, it will work.
 
Originally posted by: kevnich2
I don't think their obselete at all, for the reasons Spidey mentioned. There are still places that don't have cable service but DO have phone and you can get a T1 from that, though it is much more costly, it will work.
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Not to mention I haven't seen any business use broadband. It's ALWAYs T1, T3, SONET or they just building their own optical network.
 
it's useful in some cases...say a small remote site that doesnt require such dedication and can't justify the price of a T1. site-to-site vpn to the rescue, or maybe a small FR connection.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
As I am learning with our DSL line, latency sucks big time for these SOHO technologies like DSL or Cable.
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True. Business services normally carry a service level agreement outling things like bandwidth, uptime, latency, etc.

So sure you pay a little more, but you get more as well.
 
Most of my clients can't justify the cost of the T1. For businesses up to 30 people or so, a business-class DSL or Cable Modem account can work well. T1 is nice for its (hopeful) reliability and higher upload speed (important for VPN and Remote Desktop). But T1's download speed sucks compared to the latest DSL or Cable Modem speeds.

One thing to look at, though, is the difference between business-class and home-class DSL and Cable Modem accounts. Business-class accounts don't block inbound/outbound (email/etc.) ports. They have some sort of SLA. And, they cost more.
 
Or a T1 in addition to business class cable service 🙂 This is what we're trying to get right now. Give us redundancy plus a nice 8mb/1mb cable line
 
Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Most of my clients can't justify the cost of the T1. For businesses up to 30 people or so, a business-class DSL or Cable Modem account can work well. T1 is nice for its (hopeful) reliability and higher upload speed (important for VPN and Remote Desktop). But T1's download speed sucks compared to the latest DSL or Cable Modem speeds.

One thing to look at, though, is the difference between business-class and home-class DSL and Cable Modem accounts. Business-class accounts don't block inbound/outbound (email/etc.) ports. They have some sort of SLA. And, they cost more.
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I am putting in a SBS server and upgrading the company's network equipment with an HP Procurve switch. The client uses a broadband connection via Charter for an office of 7 users. Good enough for them whereas a T-1 is more appropriate in a larger environment or one where as Spidey says you absolutley need to have the uptime, reliability repair capability.
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Genx87
As I am learning with our DSL line, latency sucks big time for these SOHO technologies like DSL or Cable.
Click to expand...

True. Business services normally carry a service level agreement outling things like bandwidth, uptime, latency, etc.

So sure you pay a little more, but you get more as well.
Click to expand...

I am rectifying this situation this quarter. DSL is out the door, it may be cheaper but it isnt that much cheaper when it comes to hampering the business.

 
This is something we are running into a lot. Quite a few of our sites were setup with cable (and in a few cases RESIDENTIAL!!!!!!) anyway, they always thought well it works most of the time. Things are becoming so much more reliant on technology that uptime is a must, no way around it.
 
Originally posted by: brockj
This is something we are running into a lot. Quite a few of our sites were setup with cable (and in a few cases RESIDENTIAL!!!!!!) anyway, they always thought well it works most of the time. Things are becoming so much more reliant on technology that uptime is a must, no way around it.
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And that's the big difference. Sure, compared to normal broadband speeds a T1 is slow. But you'd be surprised just how many people and the kind of infrastructure you can support with just a couple of them.

T1s have been around for what?......40 years? As such the tools to fix them and the reliability is already there. Broadband technologies are still rather new compared to other technologies.

Heck, I've put in my fair share of T3s and SONET. Before we even got an alarm or event the phone company has already called us...

"Your T3 ckt id dzec.343211.atz is taking errors. We have dispatched a repair team and they will be on site in 10 minutes. We can keep this call open if you like until it is resolved. your ticket id is 3434343."

THAT's service.
 
Originally posted by: brockj
Things are becoming so much more reliant on technology that uptime is a must, no way around it.
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I monitor my clients' Internet connection uptime and response time using ISA Server's built-in Connectivity Monitoring. It gives a pretty good idea of how reliable their Internet connection is. If there's a problem, we have a talk with the ISP.
 
Ah yes, the joys of dealing with telco...oh well, at least they are *usually* better then some person in a call center who doesn't really care (noticed I said usually 🙂)

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Originally posted by: brockj
Things are becoming so much more reliant on technology that uptime is a must, no way around it.
Click to expand...
I monitor my clients' Internet connection uptime and response time using ISA Server's built-in Connectivity Monitoring. It gives a pretty good idea of how reliable their Internet connection is. If there's a problem, we have a talk with the ISP.
Click to expand...

 
"Your T3 ckt id dzec.343211.atz is taking errors. We have dispatched a repair team and they will be on site in 10 minutes. We can keep this call open if you like until it is resolved. your ticket id is 3434343." THAT's service.
Click to expand...
I believe you have to pay extra for them to actively monitor and alert you for errors or downed circuits.

Place I used to work had redundant circuits from MCI and Savvis. Only Savvis would call us for any circuit issues cause we paid them to do so; MCI didn't do sh!t.

Right now we use a VNO (Vanco) to manage our WAN circuits.
 
montypythizzle, the primary advantage to T1s is that they are a telco-grade service. They are strictly regulated for things like reliability, and they can theoretically deliver them anywhere there's a copper or SONET connection (but in some cases they'll have to do "special construction" and it will cost an arm and a leg and take many months). T1s have in-band and out-of-band reliability monitoring and testing capabilities, which help with remotely diagnosting problems.

In the long run, of course, data T1s will be replaced by newer technologies. In the business world, I'm seeing more and more buildings with fiber-based Ethernet services (either direct Ethernet MAN or Ethernet-in-SONET). This allows providers to deliver one tail circuit and deliver IP service with a delivered speed that can be dialed up or down using things like traffic shaping, or they can just do a fat best-effort service and be done with it. This approach pretty much only works where there's fiber into your building, or sometimes if there's fiber nearby and you're willing to write a big special construction check.

spidey07, don't know where you are; I'm in Verizon territory. Instead of proactive monitoring we have deceit and denial. And some of the CLECs are even worse. One in particular has a special place in my heart. My service is down, everyone in the building is down, the ONS 15k has "CRIT" and "MAJ" lights on, and their opening position is that they see no problems.
 
Originally posted by: cmetz
spidey07, don't know where you are; I'm in Verizon territory. Instead of proactive monitoring we have deceit and denial. And some of the CLECs are even worse. One in particular has a special place in my heart. My service is down, everyone in the building is down, the ONS 15k has "CRIT" and "MAJ" lights on, and their opening position is that they see no problems.
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That sucks.

Is it your 15K or theirs? Eitherway, that sucks dude. "problem must be on the customer end" gets annoying doesn't it?

I'm talking Bell South. IMHO, one of the better local exchange carriers.
 
Originally posted by: cmetz
montypythizzle, the primary advantage to T1s is that they are a telco-grade service. They are strictly regulated for things like reliability, and they can theoretically deliver them anywhere there's a copper or SONET connection (but in some cases they'll have to do "special construction" and it will cost an arm and a leg and take many months). T1s have in-band and out-of-band reliability monitoring and testing capabilities, which help with remotely diagnosting problems.

In the long run, of course, data T1s will be replaced by newer technologies. In the business world, I'm seeing more and more buildings with fiber-based Ethernet services (either direct Ethernet MAN or Ethernet-in-SONET). This allows providers to deliver one tail circuit and deliver IP service with a delivered speed that can be dialed up or down using things like traffic shaping, or they can just do a fat best-effort service and be done with it. This approach pretty much only works where there's fiber into your building, or sometimes if there's fiber nearby and you're willing to write a big special construction check.

spidey07, don't know where you are; I'm in Verizon territory. Instead of proactive monitoring we have deceit and denial. And some of the CLECs are even worse. One in particular has a special place in my heart. My service is down, everyone in the building is down, the ONS 15k has "CRIT" and "MAJ" lights on, and their opening position is that they see no problems.
Click to expand...

I'll see your crappy LEC service and raise you,

We have 5 DS3's that go to a company that shall remain nameless. In the event that any of them go down, you call and leave a voice message after hours. That's right, a voicemail. No one actively monitors their equipment. Unfortunately, due to the remote location, they are nearly the only provider in that area, and you always have to deal with the last mile anyways, so we can't really change.

When you finally do get them on the phone, a northerner like me needs someone to translate the annoyingly thick Eastern Texas Drawl.

But it sounds like we work in somewhat similar offices, so I am sure we could trade crummy telco stories all day.
 
what is this SONET oh fiber...
along with LEC
DS3 ohhh t3...

im currently in college classes for networking (we did like the A+ program of networking last semester and doing intro to WLANs this semester along with like basics of routing or what not)
 
Originally posted by: montypythizzle
what is this SONET oh fiber...
along with LEC
DS3 ohhh t3...

im currently in college classes for networking (we did like the A+ program of networking last semester and doing intro to WLANs this semester along with like basics of routing or what not)
Click to expand...

It's jargon. Every field has it. A means to speak in common terms that describe something industry specific.
 
Luckily around where I live, our cable broadband is VERY reliable. But of course, bright house came through and upgraded everything and basically put fiber to the curb. In the two or so years I've had my cable connection, it has gone down ONE time for about an hour. I wasn't home at the time but when I got home, I actually had a voice mail saying (automated message but still) that they had problems and that they apologized for any internet downtime). This is residential cable and obviously no SLA. I was impressed. Our T1 at work has gone down more than that.
 
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