ISIS closing in on Al Asad air base w/ 300 marines confined.......

[Genx87]

Obama didn't have to adhere to it.

So you are seriously suggesting we occupy an allied country because we dont want to adhere to a treaty we signed? So instead of the Iraqi military being against ISIS with our help. It would be ISIS plus the Iraqi military? That would had bee a wonderful ending.

 

[Genx87]

Bush asked for an extension of US troops in Iraq. Iraq denied that request. Bush agreed. Obama abided by that agreement.

That was the right thing for both Bush and Obama to do. You can't declare a country sovereign and then immediately turn on it and re-occupy it when it does something you don't like. That would have made their government fall apart immediately.

Iraq wanted to have the ability to prosecute US soldiers under their law for anything crimes they committed in country if an extension were to happen. Can you imagine the Sean Hannity types when the first US soldier was brought in front of an Iraqi court? Obama sold out our soldiers is what he would say. Of course instead of that Obama made the right decision to pull out per the treaty. And now we get to hear the Hannity types whine about how this was stoppable if only Obama had negotiated an extension. derp

 

[Genx87]

Is that in any way necessary, given the situation? If so, what are you basing that on?

I have come to the conclusion either our propaganda is so good people believe all it takes is a few special ops and airstrikes. Or COD is warping people minds on how a battle field looks.

Lets bomb a mile wide crater around 300 marines. From my understanding there is literally nothing around this base. So bombing a crater around it accomplished what exactly? It is really silly. I think last week somebody talked about how we just need to send in the marines with attack helicopters, tanks, and airstrikes and this would be over within days. Did they forget we did exactly that for a decade previous and the results speak for themselves?

 

[fskimospy]

Iraq wanted to have the ability to prosecute US soldiers under their law for anything crimes they committed in country if an extension were to happen. Can you imagine the Sean Hannity types when the first US soldier was brought in front of an Iraqi court? Obama sold out our soldiers is what he would say. Of course instead of that Obama made the right decision to pull out per the treaty. And now we get to hear the Hannity types whine about how this was stoppable if only Obama had negotiated an extension. Or better occupy a nation.

I feel like people tend to have short memories about these sort of things. I mean in this thread people are complaining about "blaming Bush" when Bush did the RIGHT THING. There is often this sense that if we just had a sufficiently Strong Leader that he or she could simply will things into how we want them to be.

You're absolutely right. Had Obama done what was necessary to stay then the Hannity crowd would have been apoplectic about it. Had he re-occupied Iraq we would have another war on our hands. Now that we have a bad situation there for other reasons, people complain about how he (and Bush) didn't do things they would have hated at the time.

 

[fskimospy]

I have come to the conclusion either our propaganda is so good people believe all it takes is a few special ops and airstrikes. Or COD is warping people minds on how a battle field looks.

Lets bomb a mile wide crater around 300 marines. From my understanding there is literally nothing around this base. So bombing a crater around it accomplished what exactly? It is really silly. I think last week somebody talked about how we just need to send in the marines with attack helicopters, tanks, and airstrikes and this would be over within days. Did they forget we did exactly that for a decade previous and the results speak for themselves?

What's funny is that if there really is nothing around the base, bombing a whole bunch of craters would make it easier for ISIS to attack it, not harder. The smoother the ground is, the more effective our weapons are. (Generally)

 

[blankslate]

Had we had a tougher president, when it came to foreign policy, it would have never come to this. I'm not sure what we can do, it's a messy situation. As a former Marine, I can tell you covert action would be required. This will not be resolved from the air. Spec Ops, Seals, etc.

Likely we would need air support (specifically in the form of A-10s, which can loiter in the area longer in the process of destroying ISIS artillery and their moving ground forces with less risk to the pilot than aircraft currently used afaik) in addition to a rapid reinforcement of additional Marines if we want to keep the Marines currently there in place and better assure their safety.

The tough military posture in the M.E. is arguably what helped foster this situation in the first place. One of ISIS main recruitment points is a religious war. When non-Muslim forces are traipsing around the M.E. it's a public relations win for people like ISIS in the Muslim world whether we like it or not because it's easier for ISIS to say that yes there is a religious war happening.

Perhaps the special forces team who sent up one one but two plans to move on Bin Laden when he was still in Tora Bora should have been allowed to go after him instead of shifting ground troops toward Iraq where their regime's link to Al-Quada was specious at best....

Additionally there were still teams of U.N. weapons inspectors making sure WMDs weren't being developed and would have stayed there if allowed to finish the job.

Pulling the support out of Iraq early did play a major roll. Obama.

President Obama went by the scheduled end of the SOFA agreement established by the previous Administration so politics surrounding that wasn't solely his doing.

A real question is whether ISIS would've gained such a foothold in Iraq if Saddam Hussein was still there... Despicable person though he was; he didn't govern like a religious fanatic and didn't make the citizens of Iraq follow any specific religious sect.


....

 

[unokitty]

factcheck.org

Q: ... Even in the period that you’ve been on vacation in the last couple of weeks, in Iraq, in Syria, of course, in Africa, al-Qaeda is resurgent.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, but, David, I think the analogy we use around here sometimes, and I think is accurate, is if a JV team puts on Lakers uniforms, that doesn’t make them Kobe Bryant...

Q: But that JV team jus[t] took over Fallujah.

Would President Obama lie to you?

Uno

 

[redgtxdi]

My concern for the marines....(my source is from within the base, I had to actually look for news as none of the majors cover it and this has been going on for a few days now....isn't that, in itself, a little scary?).....

300 marines (approx 320 as I'm told) with a bunch of Iraqis trained by said marines.

A few thousand ISIS insurgents working their way toward the base w/ one failed attempt at truck bombing a gate.

What if the ISIS whack jobs *do* manage to make their way into the base. Iraqis already inside make hasty decisions about their own welfare & join ISIS in attacking said marines to protect their own lives?

At *that* point.....to me....we've got a major problem.

I don't think the base is worth crap, the land is worth crap or any equipment there is even worth crap. But the 300 marines? THAT'S a trophy, for sure!!

And you can bet every news source on the planet will grab that juicy morsel if it happens. I'd just rather it not happen in the first place.

 

[blankslate]

Would any President lie to you?

Uno

ftfy...


....

 

[blankslate]

My concern for the marines....(my source is from within the base, I had to actually look for news as none of the majors cover it and this has been going on for a few days now....isn't that, in itself, a little scary?).....

That is very scary...

Also it happens because "we" (I mean that collectively as there are exceptions) do not question policy makers enough when they decide to move troops into conflict areas.


....

 

[unokitty]

ftfy.......

Is Obama’s strategy failing?

The collapse of the US-led coalition against Islamic State forces in Iraq could only be a matter of time...

The grievances listed by Iraqi leaders included ineffective air strikes against IS, poor coordination with the Iraqi military command, limited combat training of Iraqi soldiers, and a lack of intelligence and weapon supplies. But their main concern remains the political strategy of the US campaign against IS.

Obama Says He Doesn't Need Permission To Strike ISIS — So Why Is He Asking?

This week, President Obama sent Congress a formal request to authorize military action against the so-called Islamic State. But you might have heard President Obama has already ordered thousands of airstrikes in the fight against ISIS.

Obama may welcome your denial...

And you are further welcome to think that his strategy based on lies and denial is a success...

Nonethelss, the fact is that Obama has had six years to win that war... Or to decide that victory wasn't an option and to bring the troops home. He did neither.

And the current issue is can he muster sufficient resources to keep 300 marines safe?

Doesn't smell like victory to me...

Uno

 

[zanejohnson]

prediction!

those trained iraqis turn on our marines, it's a slaughter, and quickly after Putin makes a super move in Ukraine (probably not an actual act of aggression (he's very intelligent,)

AFTER THAT.

Israel will make come out with SOMETHING, that puts us between a rock and a hard place, which will probably be something that amounts to "SEE SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING!!!!" and they'll use their long dick of political pressure to try to get us to ramp up BIGTIME what happening in the M.E. (exactly what Putin wants)

and the whole damn thing.

the whole damn thing... is jointly controlled, by the CIA/Mossad rogue entities....

the whole purpose is to make the American public go RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE OBAMA BAMA BAMA, ...keep our two party system crippled, which keeps our defense semi-crippled (allowing the m.e. problem to spiral wildly farther out of control)

which allows Israel to say SEE SEE,


rinse/repeat until israel can garner our public support to let them steamroll everyone they dont like over there..... (but wont happen)

 

[Genx87]

prediction!

those trained iraqis turn on our marines, it's a slaughter, and quickly after Putin makes a super move in Ukraine (probably not an actual act of aggression (he's very intelligent,)

AFTER THAT.

Israel will make come out with SOMETHING, that puts us between a rock and a hard place, which will probably be something that amounts to "SEE SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING!!!!" and they'll use their long dick of political pressure to try to get us to ramp up BIGTIME what happening in the M.E. (exactly what Putin wants)

and the whole damn thing.

the whole damn thing... is jointly controlled, by the CIA/Mossad rogue entities....

the whole purpose is to make the American public go RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE OBAMA BAMA BAMA, ...keep our two party system crippled, which keeps our defense semi-crippled (allowing the m.e. problem to spiral wildly farther out of control)

which allows Israel to say SEE SEE,


rinse/repeat until israel can garner our public support to let them steamroll everyone they dont like over there..... (but wont happen)

You should write fiction novels. Even if the Iraqis turned on the marines my guess is they would run away anyways when shot at by us. The Iraqi military has melted away from less capable forces time after time.

Putin is a moron. Literally running his country into the ground for very little reward.

 

[zanejohnson]

You should write fiction novels. Even if the Iraqis turned on the marines my guess is they would run away anyways when shot at by us. The Iraqi military has melted away from less capable forces time after time.

Putin is a moron. Literally running his country into the ground for very little reward.

i could see the iraqis running, but i bet they run right to ISIS forces and join right up (because you know! they're already giving those iraqis the ultimattum... join us or we'll cut off your head (that's kind of their thing)


and i would imagine they'd like to keep their heads.

what would REALLY be a game changer, but wont hapen (at least i hope, i would literally probably pass out if it did)


our marines are captured, and kept alive for a little bit, long enough for everyone in the us to understand we just lost 320 marines...., and then isis makes a cute little video of their mass beheadings...

 

[schmuckley]

So you are seriously suggesting we occupy an allied country because we dont want to adhere to a treaty we signed? So instead of the Iraqi military being against ISIS with our help. It would be ISIS plus the Iraqi military? That would had bee a wonderful ending.

You forgot Bazinga
Your point is valid;and no I am not suggesting that.

 

[Subyman]

 

[fskimospy]

I'm sure had we only stuck around in Iraq for a couple more decades things would have turned out wonderfully, haha.

 

[Smoblikat]

I hope all of our troops stay safe over there.

Why dont we just pull EVERYTHING out of the middle east and let the freaks kill themselves. It could even be some good primetime entertainment. I can see a comedy on AMC or something.

 

[zanejohnson]

I hope all of our troops stay safe over there.

Why dont we just pull EVERYTHING out of the middle east and let the freaks kill themselves. It could even be some good primetime entertainment. I can see a comedy on AMC or something.

because war is big business!

all that ammo, all those tanks, those fighter jets... are BIG MONEY to produce (so we need ongoing war, it's what makes our economy back home work)

and all it costs us, is a few thousand insignificant lives (who would probably have ended up producing things on a prison farm back home otherwise) (for the profit of the same shareholders who are orchestrating the war machine production)

 

[werepossum]

Afghanistan turned into a terrorist haven after 1980s.
Iraq is turning into a terrorist haven after 2000s.
That's what happens if you don't leave good enough alone.

Leave "good enough" alone? The Soviets engineered a coup and invited themselves to invade. Absolutely no one has ever wanted Afghanistan, the Soviets were looking to expand to a warm water port. Had we not assisted the Afghan resistance, the next engineered coup would have been in Pakistan, a nuclear power we were treated bound to defend. (Pakistan was our hedge against Soviet-leaning India; a much worse fit to be sure, but having just obtained their freedom from the UK India was in no mood to jump into bed with the UK's big brother. There was no "good enough" available, just a choice between Reagan's opposition to and Carter's embrace of the Soviet Union.

Obama didn't have to adhere to it.

He pretty much did. The Iraqi government welcomed an extension, but ONLY with American and coalition troops under Iraqi legal jurisdiction. No American President should ever take such a deal anywhere, much less in an Islamic Middle Eastern nation.

i could see the iraqis running, but i bet they run right to ISIS forces and join right up (because you know! they're already giving those iraqis the ultimattum... join us or we'll cut off your head (that's kind of their thing)

and i would imagine they'd like to keep their heads.

what would REALLY be a game changer, but wont hapen (at least i hope, i would literally probably pass out if it did)

our marines are captured, and kept alive for a little bit, long enough for everyone in the us to understand we just lost 320 marines...., and then isis makes a cute little video of their mass beheadings...

I doubt that happens. The majority of the Iraqi army is now Shi'a, and ISIS has been very visibly beheading surrendered Shi'a. Nothing like the prospect of having one's head hacked off with a knife to put steel in a soldier's backbone, as every military expert starting with Sun Tzu has pointed out.

The old adage is "If you want to see how hard a man can fight, give him no alternative to victory but death." Perhaps now the adage will be "If you want to see how hard a man can fight, give him no alternative to victory but death and leaven his lines with American Marines." My own fear is that they will try to keep their heads down and let the Marines defend the entire base, not that they will turn on the Marines. But I'd still be a lot more comfortable if there were a couple battalions of Marines and a couple platoons of tanks.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Isis will siege them, the Marines will might ferociously and bravely. They will not be defeated my mere thousands. They will hold their ground.

Perhaps a column of armor will be send to relieve them...

Sounds kinda like Bastogne... though with marines instead of 101st airborne...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Bastogne

 

[Exterous]

(my source is from within the base, I had to actually look for news as none of the majors cover it and this has been going on for a few days now....isn't that, in itself, a little scary?)

This story (along with Copenhagen) were being covered ad nauseum by both Fox and CNN Saturday and Sunday while I was at the gym.

 

[DrPizza]

And, how many minutes away is an overwhelming amount of force and firepower? Missiles, smart bombs, etc.? Let Isis be foolish enough to think they can overrun the Marines - leaving themselves completely exposed to a counterattack from the air.

 

[dphantom]

My concern here is the force protection contingent and how it is equipped. I suspect the Marines are light infantry with not much in the way of heavy weapons. Is there heavier arms available on site under control of the Marines? Air power will do wonders but it takes time to get on target.

Perhaps redgtxdi can provide some of this info

 

[Subyman]

And, how many minutes away is an overwhelming amount of force and firepower? Missiles, smart bombs, etc.? Let Isis be foolish enough to think they can overrun the Marines - leaving themselves completely exposed to a counterattack from the air.

300 marines, but its not like the US couldn't air drop 1000 more dudes right on their head or simply pummel them. This isn't like a typical embassy being overrun with little lead time. If shit doesn't rain from the heavens when/if they attack then Obama would look terrible.