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Is your GTO or other GM a lemon?

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
"I first saw the Pontiac GTO in Car & Driver magazine, where it was met warmly in most respects except for styling. They didn't think it at all ugly, rather, they found that it was a bit boring when they compared it to images of the GTO of the past. I accepted this observation at first read, as (gasp) I couldn't conjure up the image of the old GTO in my modern cars only brain. I've since done some legwork on the matter, and I think they are absolutely insane. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Car & Driver; I think they are the best automotive journal currently in print. But to slam the new GTO's looks is absurd, especially when held against the original car.

I read other reviews of the GTO, and odd as it may be for an American car I couldn't find a major gripe. In fact, Road & Track went as far as pitting the GTO against the Mercedes-Benz CLK55 AMG to see if the M-B is truly double the car the GTO is, being that it's over double the cost.

Know what they said? The GTO is 85% as good the M-B at 47% of the base sticker price. Hold it -- are we really talking about a Pontiac?

The same company that churns out the Aztec, the fugly SUV that is universally used as a yardstick to compare how unattractive an automobile is. This is also the company that has stuck plastic ridges - that look like washboards from your grandmother's basement - above the rocker panels of half the Grand AMs in existence.

Buzzy four cylinders, anemic 6 cylinders (unless they are blown), definitely no V-8s in the lineup...

This comes about because it really isn't a Pontiac at all. It's a Holden Monaro, designed and built in Australia by GM's Australian subsidiary. All they've done is make it a left (vs right) steering car and added a Pontiac grille and badging. The engine is very familiar, being the LS1 from the Chevy Corvette.

Inside, GTO is a cut (or 10) above anything else in the Pontiac or Chevy stable. If you want to see how badly I'm not exaggerating, take a drive to your local GM dealer and compare the interior of the GTO to the $10,000 more expensive Vette. The difference is astounding.

There is a trip computer that likes to help you figure out how to use its features, among them a timer that warns you it's time to take a rest when you've been driving for too long. The seats are firm, supportive and leather-wrapped. Annoying is the fact that the motor is devastatingly slow to allow access to the decent sized rear seat. They should definitely rethink that.

Fire the engine up and you are given a shake and a growl that sounds as if it must be coming from either a large pickup truck or a throbbing 1960's muscle car parked next to you. You look around to see where it could be coming from... but wait! It's you. The sleek and refined car you are sitting in belies the beast of an engine breathing beneath the steeply sloped hood.

Launch. It growls, it roars, it even snaps and backfires when you let off. Very nice.
Meanwhile, you are held in place by supportive and super comfy leather seats. You have a punk-like level of Blaupunkt bass at you your command, as well as a very thorough trip computer.

The traction control system is wonderful; as non-intrusive as I've ever driven. It doesn't hit the brakes and cut power to the point your head tips forward, expecting acceleration but instead getting deceleration. Rather, it shaves of just enough power to halt wheelspin without pissing you off.

The car is solid. Coming from me, that means a lot. I thought my 2001 M3 had a stiff body, then I got my WRX and was shocked at how stiff the Subie was compared to the bimmer. The GTO compares well with them all. The interior is totally quiet - even at triple-digit speeds. What's there possibly to complain about?

Ahh, but there is. Allow me to list my ******* very specifically:

- The trip computer does everything but butter you bagel, yet it doesn't tell you what the outside temp is.

- You cannot lock or unlock both doors from a central lock button. You have to twist your right arm over your left shoulder and reach a mile out to the old style lock lever on the door sill. Pulling the door exit handle doesn't unlock the door either; it's a super pain in the ass.

- They may not need them in the Outback, but this is North America: How hard can seat heaters be to fit?

- There is no moon roof. Personally I could care less, but I expect it could hurt not to have one.

That's it. Everything else about this car has thrilled me. This is the first American car I've spent $$ on since 1994, though it is made in Australia..."

I've always been a foreign car kind of guy. Not because of any particular hatred for the Big Three, rather the design quality and refinement of the cars simply can't compete. Along came the GTO, and the price vs. horsepower, in combination with a very solidly built car, won me over. I was in love.

And I bought it. And I do love it. But the relationship has turned quite sour due to a rash of electrical issues that began plaguing me at only 8,400 miles. Here's what has gone wrong and the resolution (or attempted resolution):

- At 8,401 miles the radiator fans refused to shut off. The car also began to burn out the blinker fuse on each blinker use
-- Body Control Module (BCM) was replaced.
-- Blinker fuse replaced.

02/4/2005: Car gone 2 days. Balconi Pontiac, Avon NY

- At 15,589 miles an ABS warning began to display regularly. The warning disabled the ABS and Traction Control.
-- The BCM was replaced again.

08/1/2005: Car gone 9 days. Balconi Pontiac, Avon NY

- At 20,205 miles, blinker fuse still burning. ABS error still... Erroring.
-- Blinker: Inspected, no faults found.
-- ABS: Fail code C0027. Replaced front left wheel hub.

11/8/2005: Car gone 9 days. Patrick Pontiac, Rochester NY

- At 22,230, I returned the car because the blinker issue was getting dangerous. The ABS error was continuing.

-- Blinker: Replaced backup switch per TAC Case # 8673595
-- ABS: Replace left front wheel hub. Again.
-- ABS: Supposedly found open circuit in harness under air cleaner.

"Repaired"

01/4/2006: Car gone 9 days. Patrick Pontiac, Rochester NY

- At 22,351 miles, I returned the car for the 4th time for the blinker fuse issue.
-- Found wire had rubbed through and grounded to car's body near fuel filler neck.

01/6/2006: Car gone 2 days. Patrick Pontiac, Rochester NY

- At 22,774 miles, returned car for 4th time to diagnose ABS error.
-- Gray wire in harness to front left sensor broken. Replaced harness. Problem still not repaired.

At what point will they stop replacing every part of the front left wheel sensor before they realize that isn't the problem? The car is still throwing the error.

I guess that question will never be answered, at least by me, because I flat out refuse to take the car in for anymore "repairs."

I've been working with GM for a couple months now, and haven't gotten much of anywhere... Yet.

http://www.jasonlatona.com/gtolemon.html
 

Safeway

Lifer
Jun 22, 2004
12,075
11
81
Black GTOs with nice rims aren't half bad looking - but I heard they have issues with over sized tires and rubbage?

Blowout time!
 

tfinch2

Lifer
Feb 3, 2004
22,114
1
0
Never had a problem with any of my GMs. My Beretta lasted to almost 200k miles before I totalled it.

I'm currently driving a 98 Lumina LTZ, and all I've had to do was replace the battery.

My parents currently have 4 GM vehicles with no problems either.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,584
984
126
Originally posted by: Safeway
Black GTOs with nice rims aren't half bad looking - but I heard they have issues with over sized tires and rubbage?

Blowout time!

I test drove one last summer when GM was having their everyone gets an employee discount and the dealer had some oversized wheels on the one I drove. Everytime you mashed the throttle the rear end would squat and the the tires would rub like mad. It was very disconcerting. Also, the driver's side door made a loud clicking noise when you swung it shut.

I thought the dash was kind of meh. Cheap GM plastics and ugly layout in the center of the dash. I liked the seats and the gauge cluster but wasn't very impressed with the rest of the interior. I also didn't like the fact that this "upscale" sports car didn't have a NAV system or a sunroof (even as an option).

The car just felt like a big heavy car. I prefer a smaller feeling car that is more nimble.
 

thirdeye

Platinum Member
Jun 19, 2001
2,610
0
76
www.davewalter.net
Someone is bound to get a lemon from time to time. Hell my wife had a Mazda6 that Mazda bought back from us at full cost because there was so much wrong with it. I won't buy another Mazda, I won't have to worry about it.

It sucks, but it happens. EVERY car manufacturer has the problem and I'm not sure how this guy just assumes that because his GTO is junk every other GM product is. Just don't buy another, problem solved.
 

Aharami

Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
21,205
165
106
Originally posted by: maziwanka
i've had a gm for like 2.5 years now i think? no problems yet (knock on wood)

how many miles have you put on it? you plan on keeping it forever, or trade it in for a C6?
 

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
I guess I've been lucky, I bought my first GM in 1989 drove it for 180k with no problems. Traded it in 1995 for a 96 Impala SS and drove that for 260k and the only thing I had to replace was a water pump. Traded the 96 for an 06 a month ago and so far Lovin it.