Is Westmere (Clarkdale) going to be on s1156 and P55 mobos?

[yacoub]

http://www.engadget.com/2009/0...m-westmere-processors/

Is Westmere (Clarkdale) going to be on socket1156 and compatible with P55 motherboards?

edit: looks like it won't be compatible with any 1156 or 1366 boards:

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/...ested_early/index.html
New chipsets: H55, H57 and Q55.

Also it's irrelevant anyway, since it's only 2-core chips. Engadget failed to mention that in their latest article. Ooooo 32nm yeah, but it has less cores and onboard graphics or something.
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15223/35/

Blah.

 

[IntelUser2000]

It probably is compatible if you aren't going to be opting for the IGP. The new chipsets only bring functionality for the GPU on the processor.

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: yacoub
Also it's irrelevant anyway, since it's only 2-core chips. Engadget failed to mention that in their latest article. Ooooo 32nm yeah, but it has less cores and onboard graphics or something.

Blah.

Blah hardly!!!

Two cores are more than sufficient for all but a few applications. Clarkdale's claim to fame will be energy efficiency. It'll use less power than all other Intel desktop chips except the upcoming Atom Pine Trail with the same? IGP.

I'll be an early adopter and report on the power numbers.

I believe Gulftown will use 32nm and give you 6-cores to heat your home!

 

[alyarb]

unfortunately, gulftown is clocked down to 2.4ghz. TDP budget is the same as bloomfield. i'm sure there will be turbo mode to provide performance similar to higher-clocked bloomfields, but still. if you want to heat your home, your best bet is to get the 920 before they're discontinued and OC.

should be interesting seeing 5 GHz overclocks on the 32nm duals, though.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Originally posted by: 21stHermit

Two cores are more than sufficient for all but a few applications. Clarkdale's claim to fame will be energy efficiency. It'll use less power than all other Intel desktop chips except the upcoming Atom Pine Trail with the same? IGP.

Clarkdale will use GMA 4500 successor while PineTrail will use GMA 950 or GMA 500 successor. WAYYY different.

 

[biostud]

basically they will use 32nm for dualcores (good for office PC's and laptops) and 6-cores for extreme workstation performance. I'm wondering when the first 32nm quad will arrive, and maybe that AMD will ship it before intel.

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: IntelUser2000
Clarkdale will use GMA 4500 successor while PineTrail will use GMA 950 or GMA 500 successor. WAYYY different.

How so???

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: IntelUser2000

Originally posted by: 21stHermit

Two cores are more than sufficient for all but a few applications. Clarkdale's claim to fame will be energy efficiency. It'll use less power than all other Intel desktop chips except the upcoming Atom Pine Trail with the same? IGP.

Clarkdale will use GMA 4500 successor while PineTrail will use GMA 950 or GMA 500 successor. WAYYY different.

And Intel still hasn't released good graphics drivers for the GMA 950 for Windows 7, and probably never will.

 

[yacoub]

Okay then, does anyone know if they will be released on socket 1156 or 1366 or both?

 

[alyarb]

with the exception of gulftown, westmere will be on 1156.

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: alyarb
should be interesting seeing 5 GHz overclocks on the 32nm duals, though.

I wonder if that will be possible, given that conventional OCing requires upping the FSB which will OC the IGP as well? Anyone know?

 

[IntelUser2000]

Originally posted by: 21stHermit

Originally posted by: IntelUser2000
Clarkdale will use GMA 4500 successor while PineTrail will use GMA 950 or GMA 500 successor. WAYYY different.

How so???

GMA 500: PowerVR SGX 535 derivative with DX9+ shader cores and Deferred Tile Rendering, integrated into US15W chipset with 2.2W TDP

GMA 950: Fixed Function pipeline with 4 pixel pipeline/1 TMU per pipeline, Pixel Shader 9.0c, no Vertex Shaders, Immediate Mode Zone Rendering, integrated into 945G with 4-5W TDP for Atom chipsets

GMA 4500: DX10 shader cores with 10 EUs. Does not feature Zone Rendering or Tile Rendering. Lowest power variant is in GS45 chipset with 8W TDP

Is that enough of a difference for you?

I wonder if that will be possible, given that conventional OCing requires upping the FSB which will OC the IGP as well? Anyone know?

Not if that can be disabled and/or clocked seperately.

 

[ilkhan]

Originally posted by: alyarb
unfortunately, gulftown is clocked down to 2.4ghz. TDP budget is the same as bloomfield. i'm sure there will be turbo mode to provide performance similar to higher-clocked bloomfields,

I figure under 4c turbo mode gulftown will have higher clocks than bloomfield or lynnfield have, its just in 6c more that it'll be slower. If gulftown has a seperate 5c turbo mode it'll probably be about the same speed as a lynnfield hits in 4c.

Originally posted by: 21stHermit

Originally posted by: alyarb
should be interesting seeing 5 GHz overclocks on the 32nm duals, though.

I wonder if that will be possible, given that conventional OCing requires upping the FSB which will OC the IGP as well? Anyone know?

Good question but one we don't know the answer to yet. We may be able to adjust the iGPU clock speed independently, just like current GPU.

And if the GPU is turned off, it should be power gated and removed from the equation anyway.

Originally posted by: biostud
basically they will use 32nm for dualcores (good for office PC's and laptops) and 6-cores for extreme workstation performance. I'm wondering when the first 32nm quad will arrive, and maybe that AMD will ship it before intel.

basically they'll arrive with sandy bridge, Q4 of 2010 or Q1 or 2011. Still before AMD.

Originally posted by: alyarb
with the exception of gulftown, westmere will be on 1156.

lol
clarkdale = s1156
arrandale = s989
gulftown = s1366

one for each.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: 21stHermit

Originally posted by: yacoub
Also it's irrelevant anyway, since it's only 2-core chips. Engadget failed to mention that in their latest article. Ooooo 32nm yeah, but it has less cores and onboard graphics or something.

Blah.

Blah hardly!!!

Two cores are more than sufficient for all but a few applications. Clarkdale's claim to fame will be energy efficiency. It'll use less power than all other Intel desktop chips except the upcoming Atom Pine Trail with the same? IGP.

I'll be an early adopter and report on the power numbers.

I believe Gulftown will use 32nm and give you 6-cores to heat your home!

Your late to this party . Yes the Clarksdale has I5 chip . But its more complacated than that . Clarkdale will have HT and turbo . The announced turbo goes up to 3.7 thats the announced one it will not be the top end clarkdale.

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: IntelUser2000
GMA 500: PowerVR SGX 535 derivative with DX9+ shader cores and Deferred Tile Rendering, integrated into US15W chipset with 2.2W TDP

GMA 950: Fixed Function pipeline with 4 pixel pipeline/1 TMU per pipeline, Pixel Shader 9.0c, no Vertex Shaders, Immediate Mode Zone Rendering, integrated into 945G with 4-5W TDP for Atom chipsets

GMA 4500: DX10 shader cores with 10 EUs. Does not feature Zone Rendering or Tile Rendering. Lowest power variant is in GS45 chipset with 8W TDP

Is that enough of a difference for you?

Yes and no.

All the shader info is too obscure for me, I'm not a graphics geek. However the TDP numbers do indeed provide a measure of power consumption and give a relative score. But even there, TDP is a max number for design purposes, not necessarily a realistic handle on real would power use. But I suspect that a IGP runs much closer to its TDP than the typical CPU does to its TDP.

Currently most IGP's support up to 1980 x 1200 resolution which limits you to 24" "Class" monitors. I wonder if this new breed IGP will support the 30" monitors (2560 x 1600)?

In any case, the effort is appreciated.

 

[IntelUser2000]

I see. Nah, they are way different. The GMA 500 is first of all, from a different company, and SGX535 is used in really low power devices. The even lower power version, the MBX is used on the iPhone 3GS. For integrated GPUs, the graphics alone take more than 60% of TDP of the chipset.

Both the GMA 500 and 950 splits up the screen into multiple "tiles" or "zones" before rendering. The 4500 doesn't, along with most modern GPUs. That's one big difference there. The 950 uses some technology that's a mix of year 2000 and 2006, while the 4500 is as modern as they can get. The power usage actually went up going from 130nm GMA 950 to the 65nm GMA 4500, which tells a lot about power consumption. The die size is probably at least 3x larger on the GMA 4500 than the 950.

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Your late to this party . Yes the Clarksdale has I5 chip . But its more complacated than that . Clarkdale will have HT and turbo . The announced turbo goes up to 3.7 thats the announced one it will not be the top end clarkdale.

Not all Clarkdale's will have HT and/or Turbo, see here (scroll down), you makes your choices and pays your money. So it would seem you're late to this party if you didn't know the family flavors.

I'd prefer to share knowledge and not get into name calling.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Originally posted by: ilkhan

basically they'll arrive with sandy bridge, Q4 of 2010 or Q1 or 2011. Still before AMD.

If its Q1 of 2011, which seems more likely than the former, than we might see simultaneous Sandy Bridge and Bulldozer release. Intel will be ahead of Fusion style approach with Sandy, while AMD will bring their first Nehalem-style IGP by then(plus or minus a quarter).

The clock on Gulftown seems way too low. Gulftown won't have amazing Turbo considering the 130W TDP, and this CPU should be able to clock higher.

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: IntelUser2000
The power usage actually went up going from 130nm GMA 950 to the 65nm GMA 4500, which tells a lot about power consumption. The die size is probably at least 3x larger on the GMA 4500 than the 950.

Power use ought to be directly related to die size, not process node. So if indeed the die size tripled, then you'd expect to use more power.

We know the 65nm (45nm?) Clarkdale IGP die is larger than the 32nm CPU die from the photos. Yet the TDP of the CPU is ~65W and the TDP of the IGP is ~8W, for a total of 73W per the table. So clearly all is not equal CPU vs IGP. Any thoughts?

 

[ilkhan]

Originally posted by: IntelUser2000

Originally posted by: ilkhan
basically they'll arrive with sandy bridge, Q4 of 2010 or Q1 or 2011. Still before AMD.

The clock on Gulftown seems way too low. Gulftown won't have amazing Turbo considering the 130W TDP, and this CPU should be able to clock higher.

Why would it not have good turbo? Bloomfield has gen1 turbo, lynnfield has gen2 turbo. it doesn't have better turbo options because its a lower TDP, it has better turbo options because they've had a year to test and poke/prod the chips. Gulftown should be even better at it.

If you compare the i5-660 (yes, I know theres a 670) and the i7-860 (both peak at 133x26/3.6Ghz), they have identical dual core speeds under turbo as well. Its just the quad core has a slower quad core mode in addition to the identical dual and single core modes. gulftown will probably have a similar deal, just adding a 6 core mode at a slower speed.

edit: admittedly, you'd expect clarkdale to have a higher speed across the board because of 32nm, but they not have wanted to overshadow their lynnfield chips (understandably). And There IS that i5-670 CPU.

What turbo does, quite successfully, is eliminate the downsides to a wider chip, as you get the same peak clock speeds in single and dual core mode but with a wider/slower mode as well. Doesn't do much for cost, but thats what you pay for having the wider/slower option.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: 21stHermit

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Your late to this party . Yes the Clarksdale has I5 chip . But its more complacated than that . Clarkdale will have HT and turbo . The announced turbo goes up to 3.7 thats the announced one it will not be the top end clarkdale.

Not all Clarkdale's will have HT and/or Turbo, see here (scroll down), you makes your choices and pays your money. So it would seem you're late to this party if you didn't know the family flavors.

I'd prefer to share knowledge and not get into name calling.

Wrong ! I ans , OPs question . About i5 clarksdale, i3 I haven't a clue about what socket don't care . no turbo no HT . I live in USA . I not interested in sub $100 processors at all.

I think we all knew no ht no turbo on some models . One would have to live under rock to have missed that. I have had clarksdale for I good bit of Time . I like it better than Penryn quad. Which i have. I really like the clarksdale . Its that good.

On line you seldom here me say things that one shouldn't unless face to face . I way kind online compared to up front and personnel . I get in peoples faces hard . If you look at world I do it correctly. If I call you a name it will be face to face. I made a mistake in 2002 . I did an emotional insult. I haven't made same mistake 2 times but only 3 times in my life . Unless Spelling grammer is high on anyones list . But the higher up you go . Spelling grammer is dismissed . Its only people who think they are smart that get excited about such things..

If you believe I called you a name I apologize.

 

[imported_Shaq]

Originally posted by: ilkhan

Originally posted by: IntelUser2000

Originally posted by: ilkhan
basically they'll arrive with sandy bridge, Q4 of 2010 or Q1 or 2011. Still before AMD.

The clock on Gulftown seems way too low. Gulftown won't have amazing Turbo considering the 130W TDP, and this CPU should be able to clock higher.

Why would it not have good turbo? Bloomfield has gen1 turbo, lynnfield has gen2 turbo. it doesn't have better turbo options because its a lower TDP, it has better turbo options because they've had a year to test and poke/prod the chips. Gulftown should be even better at it.

If you compare the i5-660 (yes, I know theres a 670) and the i7-860 (both peak at 133x26/3.6Ghz), they have identical dual core speeds under turbo as well. Its just the quad core has a slower quad core mode in addition to the identical dual and single core modes. gulftown will probably have a similar deal, just adding a 6 core mode at a slower speed.

edit: admittedly, you'd expect clarkdale to have a higher speed across the board because of 32nm, but they not have wanted to overshadow their lynnfield chips (understandably). And There IS that i5-670 CPU.

What turbo does, quite successfully, is eliminate the downsides to a wider chip, as you get the same peak clock speeds in single and dual core mode but with a wider/slower mode as well. Doesn't do much for cost, but thats what you pay for having the wider/slower option.

It should be better at turbo since it will be on with 1-2 cores at 32nm as opposed to 1-2 at 45nm. I don't think they will allow it to go higher than about 3.6-3.7 though. What would really be nice is if they allowed the end user to OC the turbo and then it might be possible to hit 4.5 or higher as opposed to having to OC all cores at once and being limited to 4.2 or less. I doubt it will happen but it would be a great feature. Maybe the motherboard manufacturers could enable it somehow.

 

[ilkhan]

Originally posted by: Shaq

Originally posted by: ilkhan

Originally posted by: IntelUser2000

Originally posted by: ilkhan
basically they'll arrive with sandy bridge, Q4 of 2010 or Q1 or 2011. Still before AMD.

The clock on Gulftown seems way too low. Gulftown won't have amazing Turbo considering the 130W TDP, and this CPU should be able to clock higher.

Why would it not have good turbo? Bloomfield has gen1 turbo, lynnfield has gen2 turbo. it doesn't have better turbo options because its a lower TDP, it has better turbo options because they've had a year to test and poke/prod the chips. Gulftown should be even better at it.

If you compare the i5-660 (yes, I know theres a 670) and the i7-860 (both peak at 133x26/3.6Ghz), they have identical dual core speeds under turbo as well. Its just the quad core has a slower quad core mode in addition to the identical dual and single core modes. gulftown will probably have a similar deal, just adding a 6 core mode at a slower speed.

edit: admittedly, you'd expect clarkdale to have a higher speed across the board because of 32nm, but they not have wanted to overshadow their lynnfield chips (understandably). And There IS that i5-670 CPU.

What turbo does, quite successfully, is eliminate the downsides to a wider chip, as you get the same peak clock speeds in single and dual core mode but with a wider/slower mode as well. Doesn't do much for cost, but thats what you pay for having the wider/slower option.

It should be better at turbo since it will be on with 1-2 cores at 32nm as opposed to 1-2 at 45nm. I don't think they will allow it to go higher than about 3.6-3.7 though. What would really be nice is if they allowed the end user to OC the turbo and then it might be possible to hit 4.5 or higher as opposed to having to OC all cores at once and being limited to 4.2 or less. I doubt it will happen but it would be a great feature. Maybe the motherboard manufacturers could enable it somehow.

I really like charts
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/84/s1156.jpg
The top clarkdale is 133Mhz faster at all core counts than the top lynnfield. I expect the top gulftown will change that to at least equal at top clocks between gulftown and clarkdale.

Admittedly, gulftown will be fairly shot lived with sandy coming like 6-9 months after the first gulftown release.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Originally posted by: ilkhan

The top clarkdale is 133Mhz faster at all core counts than the top lynnfield. I expect the top gulftown will change that to at least equal at top clocks between gulftown and clarkdale.

Admittedly, gulftown will be fairly shot lived with sandy coming like 6-9 months after the first gulftown release.

Hey Ilkhan, I told you about the Turbo grades few weeks ago but according to Intel all 3 Lynnfield models have different speed grades. The actual speeds are:

i7 870: 5/4/2, for 1 core/2 cores/4 cores
i7 860: 5/4/1
i7 750: 4/4/1

http://www.intel.com/support/p...ssors/sb/CS-029908.htm

Why would it not have good turbo? Bloomfield has gen1 turbo, lynnfield has gen2 turbo. it doesn't have better turbo options because its a lower TDP, it has better turbo options because they've had a year to test and poke/prod the chips. Gulftown should be even better at it.

The reason I say this is that they constantly keep saying lower TDP allows for higher Turbo Mode increases. The new Lynnfield based Xeon that has 45W TDP has +10(!) bin boost. The base clock is at 1.86GHz.

Then there's also marketing. See on Bloomfield, Turbo doesn't really matter because more users overclock than on Lynnfield. As you go further down the TDP and Form Factor lane, overclock gets harder and harder(laptops for example).

What I assume is they purposely keep clocks low to allow more thermal headroom and have more potential for TM boost. Lynnfield also has better power management features, for example, it can power gate Uncore, while Bloomfield can only power gate Cores. ULV models for Arrandale will get 100% clock speed boost with TM, but the base clock is lower than Core 2 ULV predecessors.

I'm going to try to speculate the clock:

1 core: 3.6GHz
2 cores: 3.46GHz
4 cores: 3.2GHz
6 cores: 2.93GHz
Base clock: 2.66GHz

Then they'll release a 133MHz higher version a quarter or two later.

What would really be nice is if they allowed the end user to OC the turbo and then it might be possible to hit 4.5 or higher as opposed to having to OC all cores at once and being limited to 4.2 or less.

You can do that manually with EE versions. You mean like this?:

3.8GHz overclock on all 4 cores
4.5GHz with 1 core.

Admittedly, gulftown will be fairly shot lived with sandy coming like 6-9 months after the first gulftown release.

I'm thinking DP server parts will have 1Q later release and MP parts will have their usual 4Q lag.