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Is water cooling dead?

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If you can find me any piece of documentation that clearly states the TJmax of any Intel Core2 x processor, I'll give you a high five.

I'm sure Aig can explain it a whole lot better than I can, but Realtemp seems to currently be the best-regarded (ie, most accurate) program for measuring temps for 65nm chips.

Most everyone over at XS swears by Realtemp, and those guys are far bigger geeks than I could ever hope to be: http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...owthread.php?p=2809778
 
Originally posted by: Rodknock
If you can find me any piece of documentation that clearly states the TJmax of any Intel Core2 x processor, I'll give you a high five.
Click to expand...

And the same goes for the argument that the TJmax value of 95 that realtemp uses is correct.
 
What else can I do but go by the program that most everyone claims is the most accurate for my processor? Maybe I should stick a thermometer up the Q6600's ass to really see the truth.

If I recall right, realtemp isn't going to show the right temp for your q6600. The tj of that CPU is 105 and realtemp is set at 95 isn't it?
Click to expand...

You said very clearly there that the Tjmax of the Q6600 is 105. Please tell me where you found that information.
 
I am too clumsy to set up the watercooler, heck I gave up already just from trying to install the scythe infinity/mugen 🙁
 
Originally posted by: Rodknock
I'd just like to say, I'm a fairly new convert to water, only been running my setup for 2-3 months now, but I'll never go back to air cooling for my own personal gaming/OCing rig. There's just no comparison. After setting everything up, I've had no problems whatsoever, and after setting aside several days to OC properly, I've got my Q6600 idling at ~24*C @ 3.6ghz and full load in p95 at ~33-34*C as measured in Realtemp. If anyone can beat that on air without living inside a refridgerator, my hat is off to them.
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Oh man your starting to sound like me back in my newbie days. LOL!

lol glad you like your rig. I told you, if you plan it right, and do it right, rarely is there anyone that will even consider going back on there main rig.


Put it this way. (not trying to brag here either)

I read these boards and i see people all extatic about temps below 70C. Infact on air with high oc those are darn good temps. However on water, that means problem. Yes its that extreme.

GPU temps people go oogle and gaga at 8800GTX temps under 60C. Well i was running under 45C. If my GTX ran 60C once again problem.

When you have a working and good system. air temps = problem. not par.

So to me, air temps always = problem in my eyes, which is the main reason why all my comps are h2o cooled. :T

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky

The first rig is excellent.
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http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_1094.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0900.jpg

As i said i will never do it that way ever again.
 
Originally posted by: Rodknock
What else can I do but go by the program that most everyone claims is the most accurate for my processor? Maybe I should stick a thermometer up the Q6600's ass to really see the truth.

If I recall right, realtemp isn't going to show the right temp for your q6600. The tj of that CPU is 105 and realtemp is set at 95 isn't it?
Click to expand...

You said very clearly there that the Tjmax of the Q6600 is 105. Please tell me where you found that information.
Click to expand...

Notice the part I bolded. I could be wrong, just as you could be (which I pointed out). No need to try and belittle me for it. If you think "stick'ing' a thermometer up the Q6600's ass to really see" would justify your intelligence in this matter, then by all means, feel free to give it a shot. While you're at it why don't you stick it somewhere else.

Edit: There's only one correct source for the TJmax for the current intel processors, and they are obviously not releasing that information.
 
Originally posted by: theplaidfad
Originally posted by: Rodknock
What else can I do but go by the program that most everyone claims is the most accurate for my processor? Maybe I should stick a thermometer up the Q6600's ass to really see the truth.

If I recall right, realtemp isn't going to show the right temp for your q6600. The tj of that CPU is 105 and realtemp is set at 95 isn't it?
Click to expand...

You said very clearly there that the Tjmax of the Q6600 is 105. Please tell me where you found that information.
Click to expand...

Edit: There's only one correct source for the TJmax for the current intel processors, and they are obviously not releasing that information.
Click to expand...

Then how did you come to the 105* assertion? You seem(ed) confident Realtemp was giving me incorrect numbers, I'm just wondering what kind of ninja spies you're employing to get that information from Intel.
 
I ask that both you guys please play nice. We're here for discussions. I let my mod hat collect dust, dont make me dust that dust off!

😛

Originally posted by: Rodknock

Then how did you come to the 105* assertion? You seem(ed) confident Realtemp was giving me incorrect numbers, I'm just wondering what kind of ninja spies you're employing to get that information from Intel.
Click to expand...

He got it because coretemp and realtemp listed it as 105 because of this, everyone assumed 105.

Funny tho is that the creator of coretemp didnt own a quad at that time.

But the tjMAX is determined by the chip as the thermal shutdown point. Basically it means when you see real temp or coretemp hit that number, your comp will turn off. Not Shutdown, but COLD turn off.

Like pulling the cable off back on the PSU.

The number may not truely be 105, but im willing to be its very very close.
 
Water cooling may not be dead but your parts could very well be if a leak develops! 😛

Originally posted by: aigomorla


But the tjMAX is determined by the chip as the thermal shutdown point. Basically it means when you see real temp or coretemp hit that number, your comp will turn off. Not Shutdown, but COLD turn off.
Click to expand...

Not always. 😉

 
Originally posted by: theplaidfad
Originally posted by: Rodknock
What else can I do but go by the program that most everyone claims is the most accurate for my processor? Maybe I should stick a thermometer up the Q6600's ass to really see the truth.

If I recall right, realtemp isn't going to show the right temp for your q6600. The tj of that CPU is 105 and realtemp is set at 95 isn't it?
Click to expand...

You said very clearly there that the Tjmax of the Q6600 is 105. Please tell me where you found that information.
Click to expand...

Notice the part I bolded. I could be wrong, just as you could be (which I pointed out). No need to try and belittle me for it. If you think "stick'ing' a thermometer up the Q6600's ass to really see" would justify your intelligence in this matter, then by all means, feel free to give it a shot. While you're at it why don't you stick it somewhere else.

Edit: There's only one correct source for the TJmax for the current intel processors, and they are obviously not releasing that information.
Click to expand...

Rod, did you do the calibration? When I asked unclewebb and gave him my temps he suggested +1 as a starting point.

post #1179
Have you any suggestions for calibration on water? I have a cpu only loop, D-tek v2, MCP355 w/ XSPC top, MCR320-QP rad so the cooling is top notch, will this affect the calibration, ie smaller difference between ambient and cpu temp? This is on my quad.

Ambient air 19- 20c reported by lian li fan control, temp sensor on cold side of rad,
Water temp reported by same controler at idle is one degree above ambient, RT reports another one higher than that at stock speed and low volts, CPUz reports 1600 w/ speedstep enabled.

OCed @ 3200 idle RT reports 23-25c speedstep still on, load 35-36c CPUz reading 1.2v.
This is about 5c less than coretemp, what do you think? anyone else on water care to speak up?
Click to expand...

UW's reply post #1180
WoodButcher: I have zero experience with water. I do know that you need to make comparisons to your water temperature when running my Calibration test. I think even with a great water cooling system, your reported core temperatures at idle are still going to be about 3C or 4C above your water temp but I haven't done any testing with my IR gun to confirm this. No heatsink or water block is going to be 100% effective at removing all of the heat. As long as you are close to the above numbers during Calibration, your reported temps should be pretty good. Try a calibration setting of +1.0 and see how it looks.
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The capabilities and values of the parts in my loop are all known, the only variables being the mods I did to the pumps and fittings which I sent to Martin for testing in hopes he will add these to his estimator or be able to give a comparison value. I was hoping to get someone w/ the mathematical talents to do the rundown on these temps but no-one stepped up. General consensus from that thread is that +1 is a good starting point for high end water. Here is my flow chart according to martins "estimator", and you can see the difference from coretemp, about 4c, I think this is more inline with my water and ambients.

@ plaid, HAhahaha! I guess I did put the thermo where the sn don't,,,
well in the res anyway, it measures the water right after the CPU so I guess thats pretty close:laugh:
This is just my opinion but I'll bet the thottle point is different from chip to chip even in the same batch. If intel were to give a fixed number rather than just give an approximation they would have that many more chips culled from the pile. This way if a chip is close to tolerance they can still sell it. "horse shoes and hand grenades"
 
Originally posted by: Rubycon
Water cooling may not be dead but your parts could very well be if a leak develops! 😛

Originally posted by: aigomorla


But the tjMAX is determined by the chip as the thermal shutdown point. Basically it means when you see real temp or coretemp hit that number, your comp will turn off. Not Shutdown, but COLD turn off.
Click to expand...

Not always. 😉
Click to expand...

bah... ruby you dont count.
 
Watercooling used to appeal to me about five to ten years ago when it was pretty much impossible to make a quiet machine with just air cooling and there weren't many near-silent 120mm fans and coolers on the market. But today, you can build a virtually silent machine with just air cooling, put it under your desk and never hear it. No worries about leaks, water pressure, corrosion or anything like that. I can leave my box under my desk for 5 years and I'm not worried when I leave the house that something might go wrong.
 
Originally posted by: nerp
Watercooling used to appeal to me about five to ten years ago when it was pretty much impossible to make a quiet machine with just air cooling and there weren't many near-silent 120mm fans and coolers on the market. But today, you can build a virtually silent machine with just air cooling, put it under your desk and never hear it. No worries about leaks, water pressure, corrosion or anything like that. I can leave my box under my desk for 5 years and I'm not worried when I leave the house that something might go wrong.
Click to expand...

Yeah you can get a quiet PC from air, but at the same level of quietness you can get lower temps with water, which could mean a higher OC 😀

I leave the house with my PC running and don't give it a second thought usually. The only thing I'm a tad iffy about is the pump as I've had one fail on me already, but the newer model isn't supposed to have this issue anymore, and besides my new board has a thermal shutdown setting in the bios.
 
Originally posted by: Rubycon
Originally posted by: aigomorla

bah... ruby you dont count.
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Oh really? 😛

I don't count - I multiply - primes. :laugh:
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ROFL..

if i had to put you as a math equation, your the chaos theory reinvented. LOL.
 
Originally posted by: Rubycon
Originally posted by: aigomorla

bah... ruby you dont count.
Click to expand...

Oh really? 😛

I don't count - I multiply - primes. :laugh:
Click to expand...

Ruby, do you use water? You live in Bermuda, IIRC? so in a tropical environment I wonder what the trade-offs would be - better cooling performance against possible corrosion of the waterblocks from the salt air?
 
Originally posted by: Dadofamunky
Originally posted by: Rubycon
Originally posted by: aigomorla

bah... ruby you dont count.
Click to expand...

Oh really? 😛

I don't count - I multiply - primes. :laugh:
Click to expand...

Ruby, do you use water? You live in Bermuda, IIRC? so in a tropical environment I wonder what the trade-offs would be - better cooling performance against possible corrosion of the waterblocks from the salt air?
Click to expand...


i asked her that question, and like her forum section, she busted a highly technical diagram of how the room is air tight so no moisture can get in.

i got lost on the fifth difficult part, so i couldnt recite it to ya even if i wanted to.

Hence why she is chaos theory reinvented all over again.
 
Originally posted by: Dadofamunky

Ruby, do you use water? You live in Bermuda, IIRC? so in a tropical environment I wonder what the trade-offs would be - better cooling performance against possible corrosion of the waterblocks from the salt air?
Click to expand...

The rules don't allow it and that's a long story. Heat pipes seem to be doing fine though. 🙂 Thank goodness for air conditioning though.




 
Originally posted by: RallyMaster
Never really cared for water cooling since it's pretty much heatpipe cooling with a longer loop 😛
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Except with a massive radiator that sits outside your case.
 
Originally posted by: sxr7171
Originally posted by: RallyMaster
Never really cared for water cooling since it's pretty much heatpipe cooling with a longer loop 😛
Click to expand...

Except with a massive radiator that sits outside your case.
Click to expand...

actually its different.

Heat pipes use phase changing coolant.

Meaning the bottom is where the liquid inside should be liquid, and top be vapor.

Also heat pipes are mostly kept under vacume? or pressure.

I forget what it was exactly.


Anyhow, were also dealing with possibly 20-30X the liquid volumn as well, and most likely 4x the cooling capacity.

So rally, yeah it is somewhat simular, but very different at the same time.
 
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