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Discussion Is this rust to be concerned about?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Q
  • Start date Start date
Q

Q

Lifer
Looking at a 2000 Ram I found locally as a cheap DD to last me a few years. Found one that is a very good price but has rust on the underbody. I asked for pictures to see if it's even worth driving to in person. Below is what I got. Looks pretty bad to me but I don't know shit about rust on cars.

I am unsure if this can be cleaned/sprayed or it's too far gone. Any ideas? Your response isn't end all be all, just helps me decide if even worth driving and taking to a local shop for more expert knowledge.

https://pasteboard.co/bnsJda92tfvr.jpg
https://pasteboard.co/1cAoVh25lRlT.jpg
https://pasteboard.co/SRWRnyhKSGdB.jpg
 
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You must live in one of the rust bucket states. That first image would be a hard pass for me, but I live in the southeast and we don't have that problem here even on the coast.
 
I spent close to 40 years in salt country. This looks normal for age. Is the price that good and can you handle the repairs? Remember you can spend a lot of money and still have repairs. I spent most of my life with farmers 2/3's of them drove pickups like this and could have bought anything they wanted. There was a tradition to go visit ag areas in Texas and New Mexico to find a well used no rust truck. Fly down drive back. good luck.
 
It looks like a normal level of rust, but at the same time, a "normal" level of rust in some areas, can cause major problems.

At least it is a framed truck, so foremost you should examine the frame, and if the owner isn't too alarmed to let you inspect it, take a hammer and pick and pound and poke on the frame to see if any holes are made. If holes are made, no damage was really done because it wasn't doing anything useful in that area already.

It may need some replacement parts, now or soon, for example the leaf spring shackles can be a problem at that age, and brake lines, though I'm pretty sure I see a new brake line across the rear axle so possibly more than just that one has been replace already.

Then there are fuel lines, power steering, transmission, etc, all potential things to need replaced before long. Buying something this age is definitely a DIY project to get it fit for a few years of service if you don't want to have to dump a few thousands dollars into it from paying a premium for shop labor and shop parts costs.

I'm not even mentioning the things that any 20 year old vehicle might need like suspension, hubs/bearings, fuel pump, radiator, steering rack, or alternator, etc, soon, though some of these things may have also, already been replaced.

Also check the rocker panels and dog legs, a common rust area but this is more cosmetic unless you live in some area where the city or an HOA disallows rusty or otherwise mismatched vehicle body panels... and of course, that can be repaired too. Rusted out frame is the main deal killer, even a weak engine can be replaced before I'd do a full frame off restore on something like that.

So it is worth going to see, getting under there (better when not very bright outside then use a strong flashlight to inspect the undercarriage), and then if it passes your stage one inspection, get a mechanic to look at it on a lift. Could also have rotten bed or floor pan but sheet steel is easier to weld on than other areas of rust repair, especially if you can find preformed repair panels.

Don't forget to ask about maintenance and repair records.

You can clean and spray some, but it's going to be a dirty job, and remember that any repairs are far more of a PITA when fighting against rust but if that's all that is available in your area, otherwise you'd expect to have to ship a southern car up (or "fly down drive back" as someone already mentioned) to get much lower average rust, OR find some elderly person who didn't take their truck out often in recent years so it's in cherry condition. This might be your best bet but will have to jump on one fast when you find it.
 
2000 Ram assuming 12,000 mpy that's 250,000 miles roughly. Let's assume "average maintenance", oil changes, filters, belts, ect. This is what I'm going to EXPECT, as a mechanic, to replace on a 250,000 mile, 21 year old vehicle:

Shocks (obvious from the pics)
Brake lines
Calipers, rotors, cylinder if rear drum, complete flush and replace all brake fluid
Emergency brake hardware from the back including the cable.
All vacuum lines
Fuel filter (requires dropping the tank)
Lower control arms / ball joints / inner / outer tie rod ends - examine the pitman
All suspension hardware including spring shackles and control arm to body bolts
Coolant system flush and fill, check waterpump shaft play possibly replace
Drive-shaft u-joints
CV Joint inspection possible replacement, if 4wd
At 250,000 you're going to have lots of carbon in the idle air bypass valve, possible idle issues, CLEAN IT
Replace O2 sensors (chances are they were replaced once already around 120,000)
Also, normal tune up items, be ready to do plugs, wires, belt, air filter, pcv valve
Ensure EGR system is working - lots of carbon in there by now
I'd pull the throttle body and clean it, for fun...
Take a look inside the valve covers, check for sludge build up. If you have sludge, you're going to pull the valve covers and oil pan off, clean everything reachable, and re-gasket and assemble it all.
Transmission is probably due for a flush and filter.
Make sure it has good oil pressure. Oil pump isn't hard to replace, but if you can't get good oil pressure in an engine with 1/4 million miles on it, be prepared to drop the pan, pull the crank, and replace the mains.

This is kind of just a starting list I'd EXPECT to have to address on a vehicle with this many miles and years on it.
Figure out what all this would cost, and that'll tell you everything you need to know.
 
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I gotta agree, it's not bad for a 2000.

Things to watch, (experience speaking here from a 1997 Dodge) is rusty brake lines and gas line failing. It was driven often both a snow and the salt, and a couple of weeks every summer driving on the beach on the outer banks.

Brake lines, no brakes all of a sudden
Gas line, since fuel pump is in tank, leaks gas. Line ran on top of frame rail, so dripped everywhere.

Both were repaired. Independent shop replaced every inch of brake line, and most of gas line. At the same time they spayed all the frame with a rust reformer (which chemically creates an inert coating). I sold the truck a couple of years ago, but still see it from time to time.
 
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letmepicyou said:
2000 Ram assuming 12,000 mpy that's 250,000 miles roughly. Let's assume "average maintenance", oil changes, filters, belts, ect. This is what I'm going to EXPECT, as a mechanic, to replace on a 250,000 mile, 21 year old vehicle:

Shocks (obvious from the pics)
Brake lines
Calipers, rotors, cylinder if rear drum, complete flush and replace all brake fluid
Emergency brake hardware from the back including the cable.
All vacuum lines
Fuel filter (requires dropping the tank)
Lower control arms / ball joints / inner / outer tie rod ends - examine the pitman
All suspension hardware including spring shackles and control arm to body bolts
Coolant system flush and fill, check waterpump shaft play possibly replace
Drive-shaft u-joints
CV Joint inspection possible replacement, if 4wd
At 250,000 you're going to have lots of carbon in the idle air bypass valve, possible idle issues, CLEAN IT
Replace O2 sensors (chances are they were replaced once already around 120,000)
Also, normal tune up items, be ready to do plugs, wires, belt, air filter, pcv valve
Ensure EGR system is working - lots of carbon in there by now
I'd pull the throttle body and clean it, for fun...
Take a look inside the valve covers, check for sludge build up. If you have sludge, you're going to pull the valve covers and oil pan off, clean everything reachable, and re-gasket and assemble it all.
Transmission is probably due for a flush and filter.
Make sure it has good oil pressure. Oil pump isn't hard to replace, but if you can't get good oil pressure in an engine with 1/4 million miles on it, be prepared to drop the pan, pull the crank, and replace the mains.

This is kind of just a starting list I'd EXPECT to have to address on a vehicle with this many miles and years on it.
Figure out what all this would cost, and that'll tell you everything you need to know.
Click to expand...


Oh hell no.


Cell phone.

AAA+ Membership.



.
 
^ Hell no what? It would be insane to buy a 22 year old vehicle from the rust belt, and plan to have a future with it, if you don't preemptively do, DIY maintenance and repairs to a LOT of areas, except those done in recent years and maybe even those too if the prior owner cheaped out on generic LQ replacement parts.

DIY is the key to sane ownership (going forward) of something this age, so a list similar to what letmepicyou made, might cost (random guess) around $2K over time as you get to each item, rather than many thousands more to pay someone else to do the labor and suffer parts markup too.

That's if the frame isn't rusted out. We really can't guess on that, could easily be rusted past being worth bothering with if driven all winter in the rust belt for 22 years. That needs a thorough inspection, including frame cross-members, including areas that might be trickier to patch weld like the upper shock mount may be a stamp formed piece that can't just use plate or tubular steel to patch (maybe, maybe not, anything can be fabricated given the skill, imagination and tools/equipment/workspace to get it done but everyone has their own wheelhouse and burden limit).

Otherwise, cell phone and AAA+ membership only solves the getting you home part, not the keeping it running reliably & safely long-term, part. Plus it's not just the inconvenience of breaking down, also your safety as well as everyone else on same roads. Most people who die in a wreck, don't bother to call AAA after the fact.
 
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Generally this is only one of the issues in planning your decision to buy and use a used vehicle.

If most of the rust is on solid parts of the frame or suspension, it can be treated properly, even coated and then forgotten. Others mention other aspects, and I wasn't sure if you were worried about the gas-tank. But again, if those parts aren't leaking or are still serviceable, treat them, coat them, replace them. Make a budget for it and proceed.
 
pete6032 said:
This looks like a pretty standard level of rust for a car from the Midwest.
Click to expand...

It would be standard around here as well (eastern Canada).

But you still need to be kind of crazy or desperate to buy one with that much rust. They are usually in the junkyard at this point, after failing a safety and being too far gone to fix.

If still considering it, the OP should take it to a mechanic and have everything checked, and they can talk him out of it.
 
OP,

As others have said,

This depends on how low the price is and what your expectations are. If you only plan to keep it a few years, AND the price is far below average AND you expect it to have some issues...then go for it.

--My point is that if you plan to keep the truck forever, then this is a VERY bad start, but otherwise, it's a cost/value proposition that you should figure out against need/finances.

An example is that I bought a rust free, 2003 Toyota Tacoma a few years back just because it had a factory installed frame replacement. I KNEW the truck had other issues, and I was OK with a high mileage truck because I knew that if I fixed those issues, the truck value would be worth about the same as other trucks without these issues. I got exactly what I paid for. It had bent rear axle carrier, dragging front calipers, worn out brake drums, steering rack bushings were shot, two blown shocks (fronts), and ABS issues. I fixed it all for about 1200 dollars.

8 years later, and I still drive that truck. It has 220,000 miles on it now, and still burns no oil between oil changes (every 7500 miles). I don't plan on selling it, so the money I spent fixing it isn't relevant.

Mark
 
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