is this how POS cards are pushed on customers?

ielmox

Member
Jul 4, 2007
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0
So last week-end I went out to the depths of the Computer Centre dungeons to buy myself a graphics card for my new rig.

(Shopping for hardware in Hong Kong, where I live, is a unique experience. You must squeeze your way through endless mazes of low-ceilinged, crowded corridors one metre wide, with the average "shop" the size of a toilet cubicle, row upon row of them packed to the last inch with shiny hardware. Fire safety rules clearly do not apply to tech buyers).

Disgusted with the current state of the graphics card market, I had decided to pick up a Geforce 7900GS, which pretty much offers the best value for money (let's be serious, DirectX 10 support is hardly a relevant issue today). I briefly considered the 8800GTS 320MB, but found it to be too expensive (roughly USD 320+) considering that 1) it's getting quite long in the tooth, and 2) we could see a new generation of nVidia cards around the new year. The crap that nVidia released as the 8600 (though it should properly be named 8400 or thereabouts) I did not even consider, owing to the idiotic memory bus and crippled number of stream processors. And ATI was well out of contention, seeing as how they dropped the ball even worse than nVidia. So I figured a cheap 7900GS would tide me over and play my games until either the 8800 drops in price or a new generation of (hopefully not fumbled) mid range hardware comes out.

Having done my research online, and seen several 7900 cards listed for sale in this city, I was quite surprised when I kept being told by every single shopkeeper that there were no 7900 cards to be found. I searched for hours, I even had some shopkeepers I know check with stockhouses, wholesalers, suppliers, etc. Nothing. Not one.

There are no 7900 cards left in this city. Every last one from every last brand was suddenly recalled a few weeks ago. I could still find 7600 cards, and quite a few upper models such as the 7950 (which are much more expensive) but not the ideal price/performance value of the 7900GS.

I ended up buying an XFX 8600GT XXX, which is factory overclocked and which was available for less than regular the 8600GT - a few dollars less than what I would have paid for the 7900GS. But I am mightily peeved. Hong Kongers love a good bargain almost as much as they love games, and from what I understand the 7900GS was (logically) a big seller in this city. It's certainly the card that I determined was right for me, yet I was forced to go with a card that offers consistently lower performance than the previous generation part I wanted.

Does anyone know if this is some kind of strategy to push sales of the 8600 on folks who would normally buy the high value 7900GS? Is this happening elsewhere, other than Hong Kong?

 

Cutthroat

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2002
1,104
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0
Well I had a look at my favorite e-tailer and see that I can purchase a wide variety of Geforce 7900 cards here in Canada. Perhaps they are screwing with you.
 

ielmox

Member
Jul 4, 2007
53
0
0
The funny thing is that 7900GS cards are still listed as available in Hong Kong on a number of web sites, e.g.,
[L=http://www.hkgolden.com/hardware_price/default2.asp?itemtype=VIDEOCARD&vendor_id=*ALL&sort_by=M&I2.x=33&I2.y=17]

which was updated just yesterday. But apparently you can't find a single one in the entire territory, either retail, e-tail, or via order from any of the several suppliers (e-tail isn't big here for hardware anyway).

I was informed that 7900GS cards were selling quite well. If (as several shopkeepers told me) the 7900GS has been discontinued, it seems strange to issue a recall for all cards of all brands rather than simply sell the remaining stock. Fishy...
 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
5,161
32
86
Im sure G71 cores i.e7900GS are EOL in terms of production.

You do realise the 8800GTS320 would be twice as fast as a 7900GS (eat it alive) in most situations and offer much better IQ i.e AF/AA while not consuming that much power at all?
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,938
6
81
I was just looking yesterday at one UK etailer, and they have sections for 7300's, 7600's, 8500/8600, 8800 etc, but they don't have ANY 79xx cards listed at all.
Another one has only a few (5) and they are not as cheap as the have been before (Prices start are £117.50 vs £90 for a similar card from another website)
A third has no 79xx cards listed either.
A fourth has a reasonable number of 79xx's listed, but there does seem to be a hugely dwindling supply.
 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
5,161
32
86
Which means only one thing. They are phasing out both production of G71 cores and inventory of last gens high end cards. This will be the same for the low/mid range soon for the G72/3 etc
 

ielmox

Member
Jul 4, 2007
53
0
0
The 8800GTS320 costs between 2.5 and 3 times as much as the 7900GS/8600GT where I live. Since I'm putting together a totally new box (considerable cost), and since I have no intention of paying such a high price for hardware that dates from last year, it's not really an option for me. I'll be more interested in upgrading when the current high-end drops in price or when a new mid-range is introduced (and it better not be a low range disguised as mid range).

But that's not really what I wanted to know - I was curious about the reasons for forcing a territory-wide recall on perfectly viable and well-performing vidcards that were still selling well. Is this how nVidia wants to force sales of its 8600 line in select markets? Does anyone in the know have more info about such practices?
 

ielmox

Member
Jul 4, 2007
53
0
0
Originally posted by: Lonyo
I was just looking yesterday at one UK etailer, and they have sections for 7300's, 7600's, 8500/8600, 8800 etc, but they don't have ANY 79xx cards listed at all.
Another one has only a few (5) and they are not as cheap as the have been before (Prices start are £117.50 vs £90 for a similar card from another website)
A third has no 79xx cards listed either.
A fourth has a reasonable number of 79xx's listed, but there does seem to be a hugely dwindling supply.

Thanks Lonyo, that kind of reaffirms my suspicion that nVidia wants to kill off the 7900GS because it competes too effectively with their current generation 8600 cards.

On my shopping expedition to the dungeons I could have bought any number of 7300, 7600, and 7950 cards. There were even 6xxx and 5xxx cards on offer! But all the 7900GS cards from all the myriad manufacturers vanished mysteriously from one day to the next....
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
It's possible that there were a ton of people just like you, looking for the best price/performance GPU in your area, and they all got bought up. I just bought a 7600GT here in the states. The 7900's are minimally available and are still expensive. I think 7900's have been EOL a long time ago. After all, the 8600/8400's have been out for a while now. Could it be a conspiracy? In this world, more than likely, but maybe the stock really is just running low.
 

ielmox

Member
Jul 4, 2007
53
0
0
I thought that too at first, but I was in the same area shopping for other components the previous three weeks, and there was no shortage of 7900GS cards on display. When I spoke with various shopkeepers, they all told me the same thing: the 7900GS stocks were sent back as a result of a recall "because they are not making the 7900GS anymore".

The shops actually shipped unsold stock off back to the source instead of meeting the considerable demand for it. For a Hong Kong retailer to do this, someone had to make it worth their while! And when I checked with the source (the suppliers) they also told me there was not a single 7900GS card left in their inventory for me to buy. Conspiracy? At least I'm not the only one who thinks it's weird.


 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
Originally posted by: ielmox
I thought that too at first, but I was in the same area shopping for other components the previous three weeks, and there was no shortage of 7900GS cards on display. When I spoke with various shopkeepers, they all told me the same thing: the 7900GS stocks were sent back as a result of a recall "because they are not making the 7900GS anymore".

The shops actually shipped unsold stock off back to the source instead of meeting the considerable demand for it. For a Hong Kong retailer to do this, someone had to make it worth their while! And when I checked with the source (the suppliers) they also told me there was not a single 7900GS card left in their inventory for me to buy. Conspiracy? At least I'm not the only one who thinks it's weird.

So, after all is said and done, how is your 8600 working out?
 

RajunCajun

Senior member
Nov 30, 2000
213
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0
If it's any consolation, if you look at FiringSquad's recent 8600GTS roundup HERE you'll find that it performs as good or better in newer, shader-heavy games than 7900 or 1950Pro, which bodes well for "future games". Even the 2600 fared well in some. This new unified architecture is much different from previous generations. Don't know how they'll work with DX10 games (when they come out in numbers), but there will be refresh and/or newer products by then.

Having said that, I picked up a eVGA 7900GS KO at Newegg weekend before last for $130 shipped - a $20 rebate = $110! I watched this sale for almost 2 weeks before pulling the trigger. I had a XFX 7600GT (clocked 590/1600) before, and honestly was able to game just fine at 1680x1050 with most details cranked on games I have (COD2, Oblivion, Quake 4, Prey, plus oder games like Far Cry). Now running on the GS for 1.5 wks and I feel it was an EXCELLENT upgrade for $110. There is not a large difference running at 1680/1050, but I'm now able to add extra AA&AF. Would not have been worth it if the price was much higher, but the extra power will pay off with newer games till I upgrade my PC to Vista down the road (like next year!).

FYI the card came overclocked at 500 core/1380 mem, but automatic overclock detection through the drivers got me to 582/1624 easily with no problems! All this from my lowly 305 watt power supply running in a hotter than average Dell Dimension 4700!

A quick look at Newegg today showed 7 7900GS available, with 5 in stock. Would not surprise me if they drop off the map rather quickly. If anyone needs a quick fix for awhile you can't really go wrong if you find one cheap. BTW, the eVGA is no longer available at the egg. Couple weeks ago Outpost had a BFG GS for $99 after rebate!
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
7900GS OC is a good performance-value card for the prices it sells at in US nowdays. Why didn't you consider X1900GT or X1950Pro or even X1950XT 256mb?

On the bright side:

1) 8600GTS has good video acceleration and in the later years could serve you well for watching HDTV content;

2) Although we tend to assume everyone is educated in computer technology, the reality is majority of people out there who buy computers do not know very much. Now, imagine if you were one of them, how would you compare components ? The easiest way is by numbers like:

256mb> 128mb or GeForce 8 is > GeForce 6.

At the very least it will be far easier to sell 8600GTS down the road (in addition to point #1, which some people care about) to a noob. All you have to do is find a typical consumer when it comes time to sell and you wont lose as much value as you think.
 

ielmox

Member
Jul 4, 2007
53
0
0
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
So, after all is said and done, how is your 8600 working out?

I'll find out as soon as the shipments of E6750 hit these shores and I can finish my box - this week-end hopefully!

Thanks for the infos (I see Rajun also aimed for the 7900GS). From what I've read so far the 8600GT (not GTS) is comparable to the 7600, which was a nice card but I was hoping for a bit more oomph from the 8 series...
 

tuteja1986

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2005
3,676
0
0
Originally posted by: ielmox
So last week-end I went out to the depths of the Computer Centre dungeons to buy myself a graphics card for my new rig.

(Shopping for hardware in Hong Kong, where I live, is a unique experience. You must squeeze your way through endless mazes of low-ceilinged, crowded corridors one metre wide, with the average "shop" the size of a toilet cubicle, row upon row of them packed to the last inch with shiny hardware. Fire safety rules clearly do not apply to tech buyers).

Disgusted with the current state of the graphics card market, I had decided to pick up a Geforce 7900GS, which pretty much offers the best value for money (let's be serious, DirectX 10 support is hardly a relevant issue today). I briefly considered the 8800GTS 320MB, but found it to be too expensive (roughly USD 320+) considering that 1) it's getting quite long in the tooth, and 2) we could see a new generation of nVidia cards around the new year. The crap that nVidia released as the 8600 (though it should properly be named 8400 or thereabouts) I did not even consider, owing to the idiotic memory bus and crippled number of stream processors. And ATI was well out of contention, seeing as how they dropped the ball even worse than nVidia. So I figured a cheap 7900GS would tide me over and play my games until either the 8800 drops in price or a new generation of (hopefully not fumbled) mid range hardware comes out.

Having done my research online, and seen several 7900 cards listed for sale in this city, I was quite surprised when I kept being told by every single shopkeeper that there were no 7900 cards to be found. I searched for hours, I even had some shopkeepers I know check with stockhouses, wholesalers, suppliers, etc. Nothing. Not one.

There are no 7900 cards left in this city. Every last one from every last brand was suddenly recalled a few weeks ago. I could still find 7600 cards, and quite a few upper models such as the 7950 (which are much more expensive) but not the ideal price/performance value of the 7900GS.

I ended up buying an XFX 8600GT XXX, which is factory overclocked and which was available for less than regular the 8600GT - a few dollars less than what I would have paid for the 7900GS. But I am mightily peeved. Hong Kongers love a good bargain almost as much as they love games, and from what I understand the 7900GS was (logically) a big seller in this city. It's certainly the card that I determined was right for me, yet I was forced to go with a card that offers consistently lower performance than the previous generation part I wanted.

Does anyone know if this is some kind of strategy to push sales of the 8600 on folks who would normally buy the high value 7900GS? Is this happening elsewhere, other than Hong Kong?

You should have gotten 1950xt kicks 7900gs ass / 8600gts XXX / 7950GT / 7900GTO and also in alot of cases 7900GTX. You failed at buying a good card when DX10 wasn't the issue !
 

ielmox

Member
Jul 4, 2007
53
0
0
Originally posted by: tuteja1986
You should have gotten 1950xt kicks 7900gs ass / 8600gts XXX / 7950GT / 7900GTO and also in alot of cases 7900GTX. You failed at buying a good card when DX10 wasn't the issue !

Perhaps, but (leaving aside the price issue) I am not crazy about ATI for a number of reasons, plus I am not very familiar with their recent naming conventions/value/price, I really don't like their system tools and interface, and they tend to be power-hungry and hot. I like the fact that the majority of games are made to work with nVidia cards, and the fact that they've been first to market in recent times just inspires more confidence, so I expressly did want a Geforce...

Whether that was the right decision or not (it was really cheap!) is certainly debatable, I will consider ATI for my upgrade towards the end of the year, but not this time around :D
 

ielmox

Member
Jul 4, 2007
53
0
0
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
So, after all is said and done, how is your 8600 working out?

Finished box, installed everything, got Vista Home Premium up and running. The Vista advisor gives the 8600GT a rating of 5.8 (I think, possibly 5.7 but it's pretty high anyway).

3dMark06 coughed up 4996 3dmarks. I installed Everquest2 and it looks good and runs well at 1200x1024 high quality settings (not "Very High" though, that requires Vram of 512MB or more). I'll have to wait for other games to test, but so far I must say I am not displeased given I only paid $120 for an OC'd card (very cheap around here). It will probably hold me over until a better deal comes, in the new year, and until I get a 22" monitor.

My main regret is going for Vista instead of XP. Did Microsoft think that users were getting things done too fast in XP? Did they create Vista so they could slow down every single action their customers take?

Intel E6550
Gigabyte P35-DQ6
2GB GEIL DDR2 800 CL 5
XFX 8600GT XXX edition
Antec True Power trio 650
Seagate 7200.10 320GB
NZXT Hush
 

adairusmc

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2006
7,095
78
91
Originally posted by: ielmox
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
So, after all is said and done, how is your 8600 working out?


My main regret is going for Vista instead of XP. Did Microsoft think that users were getting things done too fast in XP? Did they create Vista so they could slow down every single action their customers take?

I dunno about how you installed everything, but Vista on my machine is exponentially faster than XP ever was.
 

ielmox

Member
Jul 4, 2007
53
0
0
Actually I agree that the Vista OS itself appears to be generally faster, especially considering how good it looks. The interface, however, is clunkier IMO. Aside from the UAC, which can be turned off (but which already stopped web sites auto-installing crap on IE three times today) I find I am floundering quite a bit looking for stuff or performing actions.

For example, to connect to the Internet in XP takes me a double click and a wait of (literally) less than a second. In Vista I have to click the Windows logo, then "connect to", then choose my connection on the resulting screen, then click connect, then wait 10 seconds or more while it connects, then click "ok" to close the window. We're talking about the same Internet connection here.

And my E6550 Vista Home system takes twice as long to boot as my Pentium 4 2.5GHz (no HT) XP Home machine. That just doesn't seem right. I guess I'll be trying some of BD2003's tweaks and see if they help.
 

Cutthroat

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2002
1,104
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0
Originally posted by: ielmox
Actually I agree that the Vista OS itself appears to be generally faster, especially considering how good it looks. The interface, however, is clunkier IMO. Aside from the UAC, which can be turned off (but which already stopped web sites auto-installing crap on IE three times today) I find I am floundering quite a bit looking for stuff or performing actions.

For example, to connect to the Internet in XP takes me a double click and a wait of (literally) less than a second. In Vista I have to click the Windows logo, then "connect to", then choose my connection on the resulting screen, then click connect, then wait 10 seconds or more while it connects, then click "ok" to close the window. We're talking about the same Internet connection here.

And my E6550 Vista Home system takes twice as long to boot as my Pentium 4 2.5GHz (no HT) XP Home machine. That just doesn't seem right. I guess I'll be trying some of BD2003's tweaks and see if they help.

Vista takes some time to get used to, things are different than XP. I get a little lost going back to XP now. Resist the urge to tweak Vista at first, it's already well optimized and until you learn about it you're more likely to mess things up. Vista will seem like at first it's slow and using too much resources, but it's just learning your habits and optimizing your PC, leave it alone, it'll stop doing it after a couple of days, and it won't interfere with your games/apps because it's all running at low priority.

There is a great guide for Vista here. Helped me out quite a bit in the first week with Vista.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
That's interesting. I have found that Internet Explorer in Vista is extremely faster than say the latest IE in XP. Because it was so fast, I didn't even bother to install Firefox. I was really amazed at how much faster the same sites would load in Vista compared to XP.

Then again, I really haven't used Vista extensively yet. I only used it to run benchmarks in the end of June. I still have it here in the box, but not ready to go to it full time yet. XP is working too well for me to justify upgrading it to Vista. And lastly, I have concerns about my older programs compatability with Vista. Programs I can't afford not to work as I make a significant portion of my livelyhood with my PC.

But, I am happy to hear that the 8600 wasn't the disappointment you thought it might be. Should hold you over til next gen surfaces, be it ATI or NV.

Cheers.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,864
4,838
136
Originally posted by: ielmox
So last week-end I went out to the depths of the Computer Centre dungeons to buy myself a graphics card for my new rig.

(Shopping for hardware in Hong Kong, where I live, is a unique experience. You must squeeze your way through endless mazes of low-ceilinged, crowded corridors one metre wide, with the average "shop" the size of a toilet cubicle, row upon row of them packed to the last inch with shiny hardware. Fire safety rules clearly do not apply to tech buyers).

Disgusted with the current state of the graphics card market, I had decided to pick up a Geforce 7900GS, which pretty much offers the best value for money (let's be serious, DirectX 10 support is hardly a relevant issue today). I briefly considered the 8800GTS 320MB, but found it to be too expensive (roughly USD 320+) considering that 1) it's getting quite long in the tooth, and 2) we could see a new generation of nVidia cards around the new year. The crap that nVidia released as the 8600 (though it should properly be named 8400 or thereabouts) I did not even consider, owing to the idiotic memory bus and crippled number of stream processors. And ATI was well out of contention, seeing as how they dropped the ball even worse than nVidia. So I figured a cheap 7900GS would tide me over and play my games until either the 8800 drops in price or a new generation of (hopefully not fumbled) mid range hardware comes out.

Having done my research online, and seen several 7900 cards listed for sale in this city, I was quite surprised when I kept being told by every single shopkeeper that there were no 7900 cards to be found. I searched for hours, I even had some shopkeepers I know check with stockhouses, wholesalers, suppliers, etc. Nothing. Not one.

There are no 7900 cards left in this city. Every last one from every last brand was suddenly recalled a few weeks ago. I could still find 7600 cards, and quite a few upper models such as the 7950 (which are much more expensive) but not the ideal price/performance value of the 7900GS.

I ended up buying an XFX 8600GT XXX, which is factory overclocked and which was available for less than regular the 8600GT - a few dollars less than what I would have paid for the 7900GS. But I am mightily peeved. Hong Kongers love a good bargain almost as much as they love games, and from what I understand the 7900GS was (logically) a big seller in this city. It's certainly the card that I determined was right for me, yet I was forced to go with a card that offers consistently lower performance than the previous generation part I wanted.

Does anyone know if this is some kind of strategy to push sales of the 8600 on folks who would normally buy the high value 7900GS? Is this happening elsewhere, other than Hong Kong?

So instead of considering something other then Nvidia, you encourage this corporate behavior by spending even more money on a video card then you initially intended to? Brilliant.

 

nyker96

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
5,630
2
81
I think x1950 pro is the alternative to 7900gs if that is not available in HK. However, I got my 7900gs last month for about 105 USD AR. So it's getting cheaper not sure why people say 7900gs is expensive now. Also I think 8600GTS is quite capable card to consider, it's not a very good upgrade for people already have 7900gs/x1950 pro but it's nice for DX10 games and H264s.