Is this daisy chaining an electrical hazard?

[Principes]

Essentially there are three desktop computers in one room. Two gaming rigs and one mini tower. Due to the location of the desks and nonavailability of separate outlets there is a currently a gaming rig plugged and minitower plugged into a single surge strip. This surge strip is then plugged into a separate surge protector that has a different gaming PC connected. That surge protector is then plugged into the wall outlet?

Is this dangerous?:whiste::whiste::whiste:

Thanks

 

[CA19100]

My parents' house burned down because they did *exactly* what you're describing. I don't recommend it.

 

[Ketchup]

When we were in college we had to do power strip to power strip because:
- it made the fire martial happy
- rooms constructed in the '60's didn't put enough plugs in a room.

Nothing ever burned down, so in that circumstance it worked out. You really don't want to do this if you aren't convinced that the wiring in your abode is good though (no grounding, some outages, etc).

 

[LurchFrinky]

When we were in college we had to do power strip to power strip because:
- it made the fire martial happy
...

Our fire marshals said the exact opposite.

I don't know the exact reason why daisy-chained power strips/extension cords is against fire codes, but it is.

There are a lot of options in power strips including ones with extra long cords or extra long receptacle bar (don't know what else to call it). So, there are solutions out there that would satisfy your local fire code.

But, while having 3 computers plugged into one outlet is probably not the best solution, given your situation what else could you do?

 

[Ketchup]

Our fire marshals said the exact opposite....

Considering my experience is from about 20 years ago, I would not be surprised if they have changed their minds since.

My first 25 years we had one smoke detectors in entire the house. When my wife and I got married and bought our own home, there was a smoke detector in every room!

 

[mfenn]

I don't know the exact reason why daisy-chained power strips/extension cords is against fire codes, but it is.

A longer cable run means higher resistance, which means more heat. Adding to the fact that the power strip at the end of the chain likely has more load on it, and you have a dangerous combination.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

The following (UK) video, eventually shows what happens to overloaded extensions. It is NOT pretty or safe. If you want to see an electrical fireworks demonstration, then watching the video, may help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGPkkOU3Uf8

 

[westom]

Is this dangerous?

Two different topics need be addressed.

First says a power strip must not be daisy chained. And that power strip must always have an essential 15 amp circuit breaker - for human safety. That means a power strip is rated for up to 13 amps of appliance load.

A wall receptacle should exist so that a power cord always has one receptacle within six feet. Some venues require additional wall receptacles if that is insufficient.

Second is about power strips that contain protector parts. Typically so grossly undersized that even some cruise ships will now confiscate them as a fire risk.

Power strips with protector parts are more likely to cause fires. Some fire marshals blame overloading since the fire risk created by protector type power strips is little understood.

Recently, the new owners of APC announced some APC protector strips must be removed immediately due to that fire risk.

Two different risks must be considered.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

It really just depends on what you have plugged into them. (That determines load, amperage, heat, fire risk, etc.)

If you're chaining power strips together so you have room to plug in a half dozen wall warts or USB chargers that create a very low total load, you're perfectly fine.

Fire marshalls dislike things that could cause problems. As they should.

Incidentally, I tried plugging a third computer to the power strip under my desk and it refused to turn on. Plugged it in across the room and it was fine. Not sure if that was my power strip protecting itself or protecting me.

 

[westom]

It really just depends on what you have plugged into them. (That determines load, amperage, heat, fire risk, etc

Reality is more complex. For example, what happens if seven 100 watt incandescent bulbs are powered from daisy chained strips? The initial current demand is something approaching or exceeding 50 amps. Due to how power strip protection works, that would not trip any of those 15 amp circuit breakers.

We simplify a much more complex operation by providing one number (ie 15 amps). And then protect you from causing other hazards by simply saying, "Never daisy chain power strips".

Many years ago, a dog kennel down the street was daisy chaining power strips. He also foolishly assumed 15 amp breakers would trip before a fire might occur. Some 20 dogs were killed in the resulting fire.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Right.

Sucks about the dogs though. :-(

 

[melloyellow]

I don't understand what all the concern is about daisy chaining power strips. The wall receptacles are daisy chained also (usually for receptacles in the same room), so it's not like if you plug your computers into different receptacles, it looks any different to your breakers. As for the power strips themselves, they're supposed to have fuses in them and even if that didn't work, the breaker should pop also (breakers for regular wall receptacles are usually 15A, and power strips are also usually 15A). That video is pretty dramatic but they purposefully defeated both the fuse in the power strip and the breaker (or else had a really high amperage breaker) and they put 5000 watts through that thing. That's 20A for those guys with 240V power in the UK, but that would be 40A for 120V power. Go buy a killawatt for like $20 on amazon and measure how much power your computers are pulling. I'd bet about 500W total. I wouldn't worry about anything under 1000W. But I'm not an electrician or a fire marshal, so if you want to hire an electrician to install a new receptacle, go for it...

 

[sm625]

The following (UK) video, eventually shows what happens to overloaded extensions. It is NOT pretty or safe. If you want to see an electrical fireworks demonstration, then watching the video, may help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGPkkOU3Uf8

That's ridiculous. He's shorting out the plug, pulling way more amps than any sane load should. It should have tripped the breaker. He obviously has the wrong size breaker. You can have a power strip with 20 loads on it and it will work just fine, as long as the sum total of the loads never exceeds current carrying capacity of the power strip. A general rule of thumb is not to pull more than 1500W off a single outlet. A power strip should have no trouble powering two 500W gaming PCs, two monitors, a printer, a modem, a router, and several other smaller devices (a lamp, a USB charger adapter, a clock, etc). Hell, one single toaster can pull more power than all that.

 

[westom]

I don't understand what all the concern is about daisy chaining power strips. ... As for the power strips themselves, they're supposed to have fuses in them and even if that didn't work, the breaker should pop

You ignored what was posted. Then assumed a 15 amp breaker will always trip on a 16+ amp load. Again, seven 100 watt light bulbs can easily draw 5000 watts when first powered. A 15 amp breaker says it can provide something less than 1800 watts continuously and safely. But the 5000 watt load does not trip that 15 amp breaker. Numbers also say nothing about other situations that explain why daisy chained power strips cause fires - as demonstrated so vividly by 20 dead dogs.

Again, 15 amps on a circuit breaker is only a summary number for layman. Instead of teaching complex electrical concepts, we keep it simple. Layman str given one number (ie 15 amps) and told to not daisy chain power strips.

Did you also know power strips containing protector parts create additional fire threats? Have created house fires? Why does every layman also not know that? You made assumptions as to what a 15 amp breaker does. Why does 5000 watts demanded by seven 100 watts incandescent bulbs also not trip that 1800 watt (15 amp) breaker?

You are strongly advised to not daisy chain power strips because (if for no other reason) doing so has a catastrophic history of creating fires. You are also warned about protector power strips behind furniture or on combustible rugs.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

That's ridiculous. He's shorting out the plug, pulling way more amps than any sane load should. It should have tripped the breaker. He obviously has the wrong size breaker. You can have a power strip with 20 loads on it and it will work just fine, as long as the sum total of the loads never exceeds current carrying capacity of the power strip. A general rule of thumb is not to pull more than 1500W off a single outlet. A power strip should have no trouble powering two 500W gaming PCs, two monitors, a printer, a modem, a router, and several other smaller devices (a lamp, a USB charger adapter, a clock, etc). Hell, one single toaster can pull more power than all that.

He did seem to be cheating, I agree.

BUT the concept, is basically true.

For example, I've had an extension reel, which was only partially unwound (mistake on my part, I should have completely unwound it, as the load was fairly high, very approximately 1000W++), make a fairly/slight bad burning or somewhat similar smell.

A worse example, and a somewhat similar extension reel, to what I overloaded (while NOT unwound fully):

Then getting worse still:

Extension reel warnings after Halwill Junction house fire
29 June 2011
From the section Devon
House fire
The homeowners escaped after smelling smoke
Homeowners are being warned about using appliances with extension reels following a fire which destroyed a house in Devon.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-13962025

 

[melloyellow]

You ignored what was posted. Then assumed a 15 amp breaker will always trip on a 16+ amp load. Again, seven 100 watt light bulbs can easily draw 5000 watts when first powered. A 15 amp breaker says it can provide something less than 1800 watts continuously and safely. But the 5000 watt load does not trip that 15 amp breaker. Numbers also say nothing about other situations that explain why daisy chained power strips cause fires - as demonstrated so vividly by 20 dead dogs.

Again, 15 amps on a circuit breaker is only a summary number for layman. Instead of teaching complex electrical concepts, we keep it simple. Layman str given one number (ie 15 amps) and told to not daisy chain power strips.

Did you also know power strips containing protector parts create additional fire threats? Have created house fires? Why does every layman also not know that? You made assumptions as to what a 15 amp breaker does. Why does 5000 watts demanded by seven 100 watts incandescent bulbs also not trip that 1800 watt (15 amp) breaker?

You are strongly advised to not daisy chain power strips because (if for no other reason) doing so has a catastrophic history of creating fires. You are also warned about protector power strips behind furniture or on combustible rugs.

A short 5000W burst on powerup that doesn't trip a breaker wouldn't start a fire either because they are both triggered by resistive heating that are caused by a combination of power and time.

Besides, that has nothing to do with 2 power strips vs 1. If 7 light bulbs are not safe on 2 power strips, then they're not safe on 1 power strip either. Or if 7 light bulbs are safe on 1 power strip, then they're safe on 2 power strips. Either way, one of the power strips is carrying all the current of all 7 light bulbs, and the 2nd power strip, if used, is only carrying the current of the light bulbs plugged into it.

 

[westom]

A short 5000W burst on powerup that doesn't trip a breaker wouldn't start a fire either because ...

that is what one power strip can provide without danger. Danger occurs when daisy chaining those power strips. As even demonstrates by safety regulations, fire codes, numerous examples and 20 dead dogs.

 

[piasabird]

Outlets are rated in amps so for the most part You just don't want to exceed that power rating. You also want to make sure your wires are not getting hot. There are also things that go wrong if you have to reboot your router or a computer or someone trips over the wires. Computing devices do not like suddenly losing power.

I purposely have my computer and my router plugged into separate plugs so I can reboot my router without powering down my computers. The router also has its own surge protector.

 

[piasabird]

Try to keep wires off the floor in the basement. Water and electricity do not mix. If you are daisy chaining make sure you dont use cheap power strips. They should have heavy duty cables and they should all have 3 prong grounded plugs with a good grounded outlet. I would try to not hook two gaming computers on the same plug. You could just as easily Buy a heavy duty extension cord. Dont use an extension cord with real thin wires like you might use for a lamp.

Even if you had more outlets in a room they would probably all be on the same circuit. Older power outlets were not all rated heavy duty. Often they were only rated at 15 amps.

If you think about it, some other electrical devices like a refrigerator or an electric heater might be using about 1500 (or more) watts on a single plug. So a computer probably is not using that much power.

The older the house is the more dangerous this is.

Space heaters are more dangerous than computers.

 

[piasabird]

I dont like to put computers on the floor either. It is best to raise them up higher than the floor. Especially if your computer has a bottom mounted power supply.