Is there such thing as a safe recreational drug?

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooeywhoever says that "no one died from smoking pot" is so full of their own BS it's ridiculous. smoking pot ABSOLUTELY ruins your reflexes, it ruins your attentiveness, perception of things, etc. i dont drink so i cant compare, but driving stoned definitely feels a ton different from driving sober. if someone did something stupid, i dont know that i'd react quickly enough, or do the right thing.

Yes, no one has died from smoking pot.
Sure, there are people who occasionally die from driving while being stoned but the number of these cases are monsterously dwarfed by the number of alcohol related cases.
I wonder how many you can even find referenced on the net where pot was the SOLE substance being used by the driver.

If I smoke pot and then blow my brains out did I die from smoking pot?

 

[tcsenter]

LSD is pretty harmless - in terms of lasting effects.. as long as you're not a girl or a wussy guy.

Your advice is foolish and serves to misinform about the potential dangers of LSD use, not to inform.

LSD is far from "harmless"

The disparate drugs we label "psychedelics" - lysergamides like LSD-25, tryptamines like DMT and psilocybin, and phenethylamines such as mescaline - are sometimes exhilarating. At best, they are life-transforming and soul-enriching. They can certainly be mind-wrenching. Taking major psychedelics can generate experiences too outlandish for our conceptual framework to accommodate. We haven't even names for the strange new modes of perception, selfhood and introspection their biochemical pathways disclose.

Unfortunately, one can?t look after the kids, fill in one?s tax forms or carry out one?s social responsibilities while tripping on LSD. Psychedelics are typically too bizarre, exotic and ineffable in their effects to integrate into the rest of one?s life. By trapping most of us in "ordinary" waking consciousness, selfish DNA stumbled on a cunning trick to help its vehicles leave more copies of itself. Worse, the psychedelics aren't primarily euphoriants. They don?t directly stimulate the pleasure-centres and guarantee the user a good trip. Both the serotonin- and catecholamine-like families trigger psychedelia mainly via their role as partial agonists of the 5-HT2a receptors in the central nervous system; 5-HT2 heteroreceptors exert a tonic inhibitory effect on the striatal dopaminergic neurons. Such agents aren?t a dependable choice of clinical or recreational mood-brightener, whether in the short- or long-term. Depressives, neurotics and other troubled souls in search of enlightenment are most likely to undergo nightmarish freak-outs. Psychotic derealisation isn't illuminating - or fun. The drug-naive mind can?t make an informed choice of whether to explore radically altered states. For aspiring psychonauts can?t know, in advance, the true nature of what they may be choosing - or missing.

Ultimately, when our well-being is genetically hardwired and invincible, psychedelia can be safely explored. The study of consciousness can become an experimental discipline. The synthesis of tomorrow?s designer-psychedelics may unleash a revolution without precedent. Until then, psychedelic drugs are too unpredictable - and our dark, darwinian minds are too poisoned - responsibly to promote their use.

One example of how "harmless" LSD can be:

What LSD Did For Me by Lambert Dolphin

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooeywhoever says that "no one died from smoking pot" is so full of their own BS it's ridiculous. smoking pot ABSOLUTELY ruins your reflexes, it ruins your attentiveness, perception of things, etc. i dont drink so i cant compare, but driving stoned definitely feels a ton different from driving sober. if someone did something stupid, i dont know that i'd react quickly enough, or do the right thing.

Yes, no one has died from smoking pot.
Sure, there are people who occasionally die from driving while being stoned but the number of these cases are monsterously dwarfed by the number of alcohol related cases.
I wonder how many you can even find referenced on the net where pot was the SOLE substance being used by the driver.

If I smoke pot and then blow my brains out did I die from smoking pot?

yup. by the comparison you're making, all alcohol-related deaths are irrelevant, except for alcohol poisoning. people do die from driving stoned, of course it's lower numbers, fewer people smoke than drink!

but either way we agree overall, lets be neighborly and go light one up

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooeywhoever says that "no one died from smoking pot" is so full of their own BS it's ridiculous. smoking pot ABSOLUTELY ruins your reflexes, it ruins your attentiveness, perception of things, etc. i dont drink so i cant compare, but driving stoned definitely feels a ton different from driving sober. if someone did something stupid, i dont know that i'd react quickly enough, or do the right thing.

Yes, no one has died from smoking pot.
Sure, there are people who occasionally die from driving while being stoned but the number of these cases are monsterously dwarfed by the number of alcohol related cases.
I wonder how many you can even find referenced on the net where pot was the SOLE substance being used by the driver.

If I smoke pot and then blow my brains out did I die from smoking pot?

yup. by the comparison you're making, all alcohol-related deaths are irrelevant, except for alcohol poisoning. people do die from driving stoned, of course it's lower numbers, fewer people smoke than drink!

but either way we agree overall, lets be neighborly and go light one up

The only relavance of alcohol related deaths is in regards to pointing out the current legality of a substance that is HUGELY destructive to society.

In terms of 'safety' of the substance to the user it's simple:

Man A: In a padded room, all alone, with no way out and an $100 worth of alcohol.
Man B: In a padded room, all alone, with no way out and an unlimited supply of cannabis.

Man A can easily kill himself. I know cause I almost died from alcohol poisoning in college with just over a single bottle of tequila consumed. MANY college kids die every year because they grow up in America's 'substances are evil and naughty, no drinking till 21' culture then hit college, get a little freedom and alcohol and drink themselves to death.

Man B cannot kill himself no matter how hard he tried. The best he can do is eat a massive amount and make himself sick to his stomach. You cannot overdose on THC. It is simply impossible.
He could smoke bong after bong but he would eventually pass out and perhaps wake up with a bad headache. He would repeat this cycle over and over.

Anyway... you're right we do agree overall and I've had enough of my own rhetoric so I will spark one up in your honour. Good day to you sir.

 

[Arkitech]

wow, some really interesting responses on this post.

I'm definitely not interested in taking it but LSD sounds totally facisnating. I've heard of stories where people took this stuff and went waaay of the deep end. However I did'nt realize that it was really the mind that could'nt handle what the user was experiencing. How does this drug work, does it some how affect or lower the brains normal safeguard of whats real and whats not? Again I repeat I'd be to chicken to experiment with LSD but I'll be damn if that does'nt sound like some interesting stuff.

 

[Xionide]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: gopunk

I said real proof, not government funded studies designed to prove something that doesn't really exist.

you show me a reputable study that refutes those claims. if you disagree with the studies, it is up to you to show me how it is wrong.

No, its up to them to prove their right. Go ahead though, post your "studies", the ones that prove cases of cancer from smoking cannabis.

Stop breathing...the air will eventually kill you because it isn't safe either.

chances are you'll die of something else before you die of breathing normal air. but nice try.

Chances are we're all going to die anyway so we might as well enjoy life while we can, and if that involves doing dangerous things (like mountain climing or smoking pot) so be it.

dude your views about drugs kick ass

 

[Xionide]

i think i sorda relate to how you lsd people were talking about thinking about things differently. one time i was tokin up with my buddies and started thinking about his house, the whole way it was constructed and why would anyone let this suicidle person invent the floorplans to this house, it seemed completely normal when i went in but once i got stoned it seemed so uneficient and just awful. then i started thinking about my friends life and what he does and how much of a contrast mine is to his, and thinking of how he can stand living. we started walking down the street and every person i looked at sorda gave me a life story as i saw them. it was strange and i dont know if this was what you people were talking about but this was a truly different expierence.

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: Soybomb
I'm just curious to those that say lsd changes how you view things or whatever forever, how? I need an example or something to comprehend this.

You'd have to have been there. Maybe someone will offer an explanation, I can't.

Well my explanation is the vocal ppl that tried LSD are often those esoterical figures - so they believe how it opened their mind to be able to conceive the greatness off yadderyadder
Anyway in my experience it was just a multicolored blast with an extremely altered perception of things. But since this is a mind drug the experience will greatly depend on the state of your mind. *hint* don't do it when being in fear (about it) or with the wrong crowd

 

[Eli]

Bingbong - Cannabis has never killed anybody. Ever. In the history of mankind.

I challenge you to find one single death due to cannabis consumption.

 

[Kadarin]

Another vote for THC: Pot + brownies = THC + chocolate A double-whammy without the emphyzema and lung cancer risk.

There are no dangers attributed to THC that are not also present in equal or (far) greater measure in nicotine or alcohol products. The "dangers" of pot come from either the fact that it is illegal (i.e. legalize it and the problem goes away), or from irresponsibility of use (i.e. drunk drivers). In addition, many people get violent when they're drunk, which can lead to domestic violence; I've never heard of a violent THC user.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Another vote for THC: Pot + brownies = THC + chocolate A double-whammy without the emphyzema and lung cancer risk.

There are no dangers attributed to THC that are not also present in equal or (far) greater measure in nicotine or alcohol products. The "dangers" of pot come from either the fact that it is illegal (i.e. legalize it and the problem goes away), or from irresponsibility of use (i.e. drunk drivers). In addition, many people get violent when they're drunk, which can lead to domestic violence; I've never heard of a violent THC user.

Yep.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: Eli
Bingbong - Cannabis has never killed anybody. Ever. In the history of mankind.

I challenge you to find one single death due to cannabis consumption.

i didn't say anyone died from cannabis consumption, i said they died from the effects of it. if you're too blind to realize that pot affects your perception and reflexes, then you've been smoking some crappy pot. bad perception and bad reflexes == accidents, and an accident in a car isnt the same as "oops i fell off my chair heheheheh!" at your buddy's house. an accident in a car can very well kill you.

dont get me wrong though, i enjoy smoking weed as much as anyone else (well besides total potheads i suppose), i'm just being realistic. i definitely think that the problems caused by smoking it are the fault of the smoker, but they are there nonetheless.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: Eli
Bingbong - Cannabis has never killed anybody. Ever. In the history of mankind.

I challenge you to find one single death due to cannabis consumption.

i didn't say anyone died from cannabis consumption, i said they died from the effects of it. if you're too blind to realize that pot affects your perception and reflexes, then you've been smoking some crappy pot. bad perception and bad reflexes == accidents, and an accident in a car isnt the same as "oops i fell off my chair heheheheh!" at your buddy's house. an accident in a car can very well kill you.

dont get me wrong though, i enjoy smoking weed as much as anyone else (well besides total potheads i suppose), i'm just being realistic. i definitely think that the problems caused by smoking it are the fault of the smoker, but they are there nonetheless.

And that's where I disagree. I do not believe that smoking cannabis must give you "bad perception" and "bad reflexes". Infact, I challenge you to find a single fatal car accident where the person that caused the crash was impared only on cannabis. I wouldn't doubt that they're out there, the point is.. sh!t happens.... If it were really a problem, it would happen a lot more.

Most of the studies done on it have found that you actually drive more cautious when you drive stoned. lol...

It's been my experience that I can do most things just as well, if not better, after smoking cannabis.. because I can really focus and get into what I'm doing. It enables more creative thinking and problem solving skills.

Hell, I bet smoking cigarettes while driving kills about as many people as cannabis does.

Reaching for the lighter, lighting it... lol....

But anyway, yeah. lol.. It's different for everybody. So I agree that, if say it became legal.. It should be against the law to smoke and drive. That's only fair.

 

[Xionide]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: Eli
Bingbong - Cannabis has never killed anybody. Ever. In the history of mankind.

I challenge you to find one single death due to cannabis consumption.

i didn't say anyone died from cannabis consumption, i said they died from the effects of it. if you're too blind to realize that pot affects your perception and reflexes, then you've been smoking some crappy pot. bad perception and bad reflexes == accidents, and an accident in a car isnt the same as "oops i fell off my chair heheheheh!" at your buddy's house. an accident in a car can very well kill you.

dont get me wrong though, i enjoy smoking weed as much as anyone else (well besides total potheads i suppose), i'm just being realistic. i definitely think that the problems caused by smoking it are the fault of the smoker, but they are there nonetheless.

And that's where I disagree. I do not believe that smoking cannabis must give you "bad perception" and "bad reflexes". Infact, I challenge you to find a single fatal car accident where the person that caused the crash was impared only on cannabis. I wouldn't doubt that they're out there, the point is.. sh!t happens.... If it were really a problem, it would happen a lot more.

Most of the studies done on it have found that you actually drive more cautious when you drive stoned. lol...

It's been my experience that I can do most things just as well, if not better, after smoking cannabis.. because I can really focus and get into what I'm doing. It enables more creative thinking and problem solving skills.

Hell, I bet smoking cigarettes while driving kills about as many people as cannabis does.

Reaching for the lighter, lighting it... lol....

But anyway, yeah. lol.. It's different for everybody. So I agree that, if say it became legal.. It should be against the law to smoke and drive. That's only fair.

dude you fux0rd in the head it TOTALLY does that, reflexes and sh!t, i went to drivers ed and they were telling me about it so me and my friend did some tests of our own. the only way it might not affect you is if you have tolerance

 

[B00ne]

Oh another thing about LSD if things are turning strange - dont panic, just remind yourself that it is not real - just the trip....

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: voodoo33500

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: Eli
Bingbong - Cannabis has never killed anybody. Ever. In the history of mankind.

I challenge you to find one single death due to cannabis consumption.

i didn't say anyone died from cannabis consumption, i said they died from the effects of it. if you're too blind to realize that pot affects your perception and reflexes, then you've been smoking some crappy pot. bad perception and bad reflexes == accidents, and an accident in a car isnt the same as "oops i fell off my chair heheheheh!" at your buddy's house. an accident in a car can very well kill you.

dont get me wrong though, i enjoy smoking weed as much as anyone else (well besides total potheads i suppose), i'm just being realistic. i definitely think that the problems caused by smoking it are the fault of the smoker, but they are there nonetheless.

And that's where I disagree. I do not believe that smoking cannabis must give you "bad perception" and "bad reflexes". Infact, I challenge you to find a single fatal car accident where the person that caused the crash was impared only on cannabis. I wouldn't doubt that they're out there, the point is.. sh!t happens.... If it were really a problem, it would happen a lot more.

Most of the studies done on it have found that you actually drive more cautious when you drive stoned. lol...

It's been my experience that I can do most things just as well, if not better, after smoking cannabis.. because I can really focus and get into what I'm doing. It enables more creative thinking and problem solving skills.

Hell, I bet smoking cigarettes while driving kills about as many people as cannabis does.

Reaching for the lighter, lighting it... lol....

But anyway, yeah. lol.. It's different for everybody. So I agree that, if say it became legal.. It should be against the law to smoke and drive. That's only fair.

dude you fux0rd in the head it TOTALLY does that, reflexes and sh!t, i went to drivers ed and they were telling me about it so me and my friend did some tests of our own. the only way it might not affect you is if you have tolerance

He is completely right, there have been extensive tests about this. The only good thing about stoned driver (compared to a drunk) is that he usually underestimates (correctly so) his abilities and therefore drives slow and extra careful (contrary to drunk drivers)
but this behavior is not tied to the pot I'd say, that might be more a personality thing

 

[Xionide]

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: voodoo33500

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: Eli
Bingbong - Cannabis has never killed anybody. Ever. In the history of mankind.

I challenge you to find one single death due to cannabis consumption.

i didn't say anyone died from cannabis consumption, i said they died from the effects of it. if you're too blind to realize that pot affects your perception and reflexes, then you've been smoking some crappy pot. bad perception and bad reflexes == accidents, and an accident in a car isnt the same as "oops i fell off my chair heheheheh!" at your buddy's house. an accident in a car can very well kill you.

dont get me wrong though, i enjoy smoking weed as much as anyone else (well besides total potheads i suppose), i'm just being realistic. i definitely think that the problems caused by smoking it are the fault of the smoker, but they are there nonetheless.

And that's where I disagree. I do not believe that smoking cannabis must give you "bad perception" and "bad reflexes". Infact, I challenge you to find a single fatal car accident where the person that caused the crash was impared only on cannabis. I wouldn't doubt that they're out there, the point is.. sh!t happens.... If it were really a problem, it would happen a lot more.

Most of the studies done on it have found that you actually drive more cautious when you drive stoned. lol...

It's been my experience that I can do most things just as well, if not better, after smoking cannabis.. because I can really focus and get into what I'm doing. It enables more creative thinking and problem solving skills.

Hell, I bet smoking cigarettes while driving kills about as many people as cannabis does.

Reaching for the lighter, lighting it... lol....

But anyway, yeah. lol.. It's different for everybody. So I agree that, if say it became legal.. It should be against the law to smoke and drive. That's only fair.

dude you fux0rd in the head it TOTALLY does that, reflexes and sh!t, i went to drivers ed and they were telling me about it so me and my friend did some tests of our own. the only way it might not affect you is if you have tolerance

He is completely right, there have been extensive tests about this. The only good thing about stoned driver (compared to a drunk) is that he usually underestimates (correctly so) his abilities and therefore drives slow and extra careful (contrary to drunk drivers)
but this behavior is not tied to the pot I'd say, that might be more a personality thing

im right or he is? if your talking to me thanx0rs

 

[B00ne]

isnt that obvious from the txt? - you

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: voodoo33500

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: Eli
Bingbong - Cannabis has never killed anybody. Ever. In the history of mankind.

I challenge you to find one single death due to cannabis consumption.

i didn't say anyone died from cannabis consumption, i said they died from the effects of it. if you're too blind to realize that pot affects your perception and reflexes, then you've been smoking some crappy pot. bad perception and bad reflexes == accidents, and an accident in a car isnt the same as "oops i fell off my chair heheheheh!" at your buddy's house. an accident in a car can very well kill you.

dont get me wrong though, i enjoy smoking weed as much as anyone else (well besides total potheads i suppose), i'm just being realistic. i definitely think that the problems caused by smoking it are the fault of the smoker, but they are there nonetheless.

And that's where I disagree. I do not believe that smoking cannabis must give you "bad perception" and "bad reflexes". Infact, I challenge you to find a single fatal car accident where the person that caused the crash was impared only on cannabis. I wouldn't doubt that they're out there, the point is.. sh!t happens.... If it were really a problem, it would happen a lot more.

Most of the studies done on it have found that you actually drive more cautious when you drive stoned. lol...

It's been my experience that I can do most things just as well, if not better, after smoking cannabis.. because I can really focus and get into what I'm doing. It enables more creative thinking and problem solving skills.

Hell, I bet smoking cigarettes while driving kills about as many people as cannabis does.

Reaching for the lighter, lighting it... lol....

But anyway, yeah. lol.. It's different for everybody. So I agree that, if say it became legal.. It should be against the law to smoke and drive. That's only fair.

dude you fux0rd in the head it TOTALLY does that, reflexes and sh!t, i went to drivers ed and they were telling me about it so me and my friend did some tests of our own. the only way it might not affect you is if you have tolerance

Like I said in my post, it effects everybody differently. Even the different kinds of cannabis can have a very wide range of effects. Of course they were telling you that in drivers ed, that's what they want you to believe. And that's fine, I'm not saying that everybody should be lighting up and driving around. I'm just saying that, by nature, it isn't nearly as big of a problem as it is with alcohol.

Someone who is stoned isn't going to go bug eyed and cross into the other lane, hitting a family in a minivan head on.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Benzocaine seems pretty safe when used for it's recreational purpose.

I still vote for benzocaine as a "safe recreational drug".

 

[eviltoon]

LSD is pretty harmless - in terms of lasting effects..

Personal experience tells me that LSD is not harmless. It can f*ck you up at the moment and it can tear your mind inside out permanently if you takee enough. Won't happen to everyone, but I've seen some good friends loose a lot of IQ points over the long run.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Provide the studies then. I also know that studies are often conducted with those funding the studies expecting "favourable" results. IE: lots of drug studies are bogus.

http://students.washington.edu/thedarby/potstudy.pdf

i got it from jimmunol.org, but i had to go through my school's library proxy so i decided to just put it on my own site.

What they found was that smoked marijuana inhibits antitumor immunity, that doesn't prove that it leads to lung cancer or that it actually interfers with with the process of fighting off the cancer cells. There was a recent study (which I'll try to track down) that showed that by inhibiting antitumor immunity, it actually lead to the complete death of the damaged cell, whereas tobacco allowed it to survive. IE: Those cells damaged by smoking pot actually died off, leaving no place for the cancer cells to grow. This was postulated by a medical recearcher I heard on the TV a few weeks ago. I'm sure the government will fund yet another study to prove that wrong too.

Now who isn't reading the other guys posts? Where did I say it wasn't "unhealthy"? I'm saying lots of things are unhealthy, like (read what I said again but I'll repeat it) mountain climing but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Methinks you're just looking for a "fight".

here, i'll quote you:

arkitech posted:

Is there such thing as a safe recreational drug?
It seems likes every month there's a new drug on the market. Drugs that solve your erection problem, regrow hair, correct multiple personality disorders, grow organic monkey wings, etc.. So it seems like it should be possible to create a safe recreational drug.
Or does this already exist

you replied with:

Yeah, marijuana.

[/quote]

Where does it say "unhealthy"? Lots of things are unhealthy, but are still relatively safe if used with moderation. I like corn chips, they're safe if I don't eat bag after bag. And the guy just doesn't want to grow bat wings...so by his standard, pot such be "safe".

 

[yoda291]

Wouldn't it stand to reason that you could achieve the letal dosage of thc by extracting it out of the plant. Last I checked, it is water soluble. Maybe if you collected enough bong water and boiled off the water

I get high on life everyday. that and an ice cream sandwich.

Ice cream headache'll kill you

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

I get high on life everyday. that and an ice cream sandwich.

Ditto for getting high on life. I'm a thrill seeker which is typically cheaper than illicit drugs but does have occasional hazards.

As for the safest recreational drugs, the best places to look are cultures which live in balance with their environment. South American tribes that chew coca leaf,North American tribes on the THC and/or tobacco peace pipe, North American tribes with old school peyote, and Pacific Islanders who chew or make teas from kava kava are all excellent examples of how you can get a buzz, groove, trip, or chill out on an occasional basis and suffer few if any health consequences.

I would argue that LSD is safer than peyote or shrooms, given the minute amounts involved with acid. You can die from taking too many shrooms or the wrong ones.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
pot is one of the safest drugs around. the smoke is obviously not good for you, but we are talking recreational right? i.e. - not constant use

it does impair you. whoever says that "no one died from smoking pot" is so full of their own BS it's ridiculous. smoking pot ABSOLUTELY ruins your reflexes, it ruins your attentiveness, perception of things, etc. i dont drink so i cant compare, but driving stoned definitely feels a ton different from driving sober. if someone did something stupid, i dont know that i'd react quickly enough, or do the right thing.

MARIJUANA MYTHS - MARIJUANA IS A MAJOR CAUSE OF HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS

Though I would agree that one shouldn't smoke pot and drive, but for different reasons.

of course that depends on the level of intoxication. you can just have a happy buzz where you're nearly fully alert, or you can be fried off your ass, and feeling kinda tingly and numb, twitching a bit, etc.

and back to the smoke, "they" say it's 10x or 20x worse than cigarette smoke, who knows how true that is, but either way its smoke, and its not good to suck that stuff into your lungs. in moderation i think it's not that big of a deal, there's already tons of other sh1t in the air, whats another month off of your life expectancy?

Then vaporize it. BC Vaporizer. I think the jury is out on the dangers of smoking pot.