Is there such a thing as a right to reproduce?

Elledan

Banned
Jul 24, 2000
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That's the impression I get. With technologies like IVF even couples of which at least one of them is infertile can have kids, provided that both produce the required cells (sperm and eggs).
If the woman doesn't have a womb, the womb of another woman is used for the embryos.

Now even couples who can't get a child through IVF will get a chance to get a child using cloning.

IMHO this is one application of cloning which should be prohibited since it's totally uncalled for and when looking at the gigantic costs of one clone, it's not worth it. Even if the price per clone would decrease with 50%, it would still be too expensive.

Aside from the costs of such a clone, let's take a look at whether it is actually necessary.

First question: is it necessary for the survival of the species that those clones are born?
The answer is negative. Whether or not those clones are born will have no positive impact on the survival of the Human species. I said 'positive impact', because it could happen that the DNA of such a clone proves to be unstable, which could easily lead to a disaster if those clones reproduce. Their offspring would carry the same unstable DNA which might mutate at such a high rate that either those individuals die or introduce many new genetic diseases.

Second question: is it necessary for anyone else that those clones are born?
The answer is negative. Homo couples (lesbians, homos) might complain that it's for them the only way to get a child which really is their own, but I don't see why it's necessary for those homo couples to get any children. They can easily adopt one. Insisting to get a child which carries their own DNA is selfish and should never be permitted.

A couple which is totally infertile and thus can only get a child through cloning are simply out of luck. Cloning just to satisfy the selfish needs of a few individuals is unrealistic and unnecessary. Adoption would be a far better choice for them.

This leads us to the question: how much more do we want to let the world population grow? Currently we're approaching the 6.5 billion people.
Now one could say that a few clones extra wouldn't matter, but I would like to point at the answer at the first question for why we shouldn't allow this.
Also, by not allowing cloning for reproduction we've clearly set the border of which applications for cloning are allowed. With this measure, we avoid 'fabrics' to produce Humans as well. Once those 'few clones' have become a few clones per day (currently about 3 babies per second are born. 400,000 per day), those clones will have a serious impact on the world-population.

Maybe later when our technology has improved and the understanding of embryology has increased we might be able to use cloning for reproduction, but this will take a long time.
I would like to conclude this post with a final remark.

In our modern society, there appears to be a right to reproduce. This is probably due to the fact that we permit virtually everyone to use all available technologies (e.g. IVF). In my opinion it would be preferrable to have a control on reproduction instead, which would involve a maximum number of children to be born in a certain period and the obligation of couples to ask permission to produce offspring.

If you've read through the whole post, I'd like to thank you for reading it and (hopefully) considering my words.

Thanks for your attention.
 

Jfur

Diamond Member
Jul 9, 2001
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I agree that there should be some control. However, I don't think that any governing body could fairly and effectively do that. It would be something that strikes too close to people's hearts, and of course there would be abuses. I think it would have to be more of a moral awareness. Of course, getting people to grasp that we are seriously overpopulated does not seem to be working in most places.

A very good set of points :)

added: I don't believe in a right to reproduce. At most, indivudals should be allowed to replace themselves. But I don't see how we could tell one person they can and another they cannot... hmmmm...
 

C'DaleRider

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Jan 13, 2000
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<< ...it would be preferrable to have a control on reproduction instead, which would involve a maximum number of children to be born in a certain period and the obligation of couples to ask permission to produce offspring. >>



So you advocate abortion if the woman is found to be pregnant if the unborn child was not authorized? If not, then the whole theory falls flat. If you do, just move to China...they'd be glad to show you how it works.
 

Elledan

Banned
Jul 24, 2000
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<< So you advocate abortion if the woman is found to be pregnant if the unborn child was not authorized? If not, then the whole theory falls flat. If you do, just move to China...they'd be glad to show you how it works. >>

If a child is illegal, the birth of the child will not be permitted. This is according the law. The woman knew the consequences so it's not the right moment to become emotional.

Once you allow one illegal birth, more will follow. Exceptions can not be permitted.

And as for China, they're doing just about everything wrong what can be done wrong regarding preventing the birth of children.
 

Cyberian

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2000
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<< it would be preferrable to have a control on reproduction instead, which would involve a maximum number of children to be born in a certain period and the obligation of couples to ask permission to produce offspring. >>


Are we to trust a government to make the decisions of when, what sex, how many, how often, etc?




<< And as for China, they're doing just about everything wrong what can be done wrong regarding preventing the birth of children. >>


I am apparently out of touch here. What is China doing 'wrong' as far as controlling population?
 

Elledan

Banned
Jul 24, 2000
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<<

<< it would be preferrable to have a control on reproduction instead, which would involve a maximum number of children to be born in a certain period and the obligation of couples to ask permission to produce offspring. >>


Are we to trust a government to make the decisions of when, what sex, how many, how often, etc?
>>

Good question. History shows that no Government is capable of taking such decisions. Power corrupts.

Perhaps we shouldn't leave controlling this to politicians, but to scientists who are capable of taking such decisions.




<<

<< And as for China, they're doing just about everything wrong what can be done wrong regarding preventing the birth of children. >>


I am apparently out of touch here. What is China doing 'wrong' as far as controlling population?
>>

They limit the number of children every couple is allowed to have to one (1). Limiting this number to 2 would have been more effective and would have saved the lives of countless female babies. Since not every couple will get 2 children, and some will get no children at all, this would at least stabilize the growth of China's population.

What we see now is that by the limitation of 1 child per couple the least 'valuable' gender is usually killed. In this case the females. Since the number of males is already far higher than the number of females in China and this difference will only increase, the population of China will implode.
 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
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IMHO this is one application of cloning which should be prohibited since it's totally uncalled for and when looking at the gigantic costs of one clone, it's not worth it. Even if the price per clone would decrease with 50%, it would still be too expensive.



what kind of argument is that? She we also prohibit the sales of the mclaren f1 because its &quot;too expensive&quot; and &quot;not worth it? That crap if I've ever heard it. If you've got the money, someone else should not tell you that you cant spend your money on (x) because its too expensive.


What Im worried about is the gradual creation of a super race-a number of genetically engineered rich kiddies whos bloodline has been perfected, who are smarter, stronger, and superior.
 

Elledan

Banned
Jul 24, 2000
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<< What Im worried about is the gradual creation of a super race-a number of genetically engineered rich kiddies whos bloodline has been perfected, who are smarter, stronger, and superior. >>

Don't worry about this yet.

First of all, it will take at least a few more decades before we're capable of controlling every stage of a developing embryo. Second of all, some Government will probably be the first one to use this technology.

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.