Is there an advantage/disadvantage to a USB vs. a PCI modem?

[rnmcd]

Is there an advantage/disadvantage to a USB vs. a PCI modem?

I am building my first PC and this is the only component that I haven't bought.

If you get a chance can you look at the modem in the following link and tell me if it would be a good choice?

http://<http://www.cyberrebate.com/catalog/product.asp?sts=nwc45&amp;dept%5Fid=1026&amp;pf%5Fid=10871&amp;root%5Fdept%5Fid=1001&amp;root%5Fdept=Computer+%26+Office&amp;first%5Flevel=1007&amp;first%5Flevel%5Fdept=Computer+Accessories&amp;second%5Flevel=1026&amp;second%5Flevel%5Fdept=Peripherals&amp;mscssid=290NRJVAA7SR2LXP00SPNE42WAC27RM4

Thanks, rnmcd

----------------
Components for the PC I am TRYING to build:

Antec 830sx case
Athlon 700mhz--(OEM)
Global Win FLK32 (heasink and fan)
ASUS K7V motherboard WITHOUT audio--(Retail)
128mb Mushkin w/Siemens Infineon PC133 ram
15gb Maxtor 7200rpm hard drive (for OS and software)--(Retail)
30gb Maxtor 7200rpm hard drive (for files)--(Retail)
Teac 1.44mb 3.5&quot; floppy drive--(OEM)
Plextor 8x4x32x CD-RW--(Retail)
Matrox Millenium G400 dual-head card 32mb--(Retail)
Creative Labs Soundblaster Live! MP3+--(Retail)
Altec Lansing ACS 45.2 speakers
Windows 98SE
Modem (haven't purchased yet)

 

[Rankor]

Are you going to use this modem for online gaming?

If so I would recommend a hardware-based modem. Even better, DSL...

The majority of the USB modems that I've seen are software modems or &quot;winmodems&quot; that need the processor to run. Some (but not all) PCI modems are winmodems also. One PCI that's not a software modem is 3Com's Gaming Modem and there are others.

If you're not going to be playing any online games with the modem, they can be an inexpensive alternative.

One can usually tell whether they are hardware-based or winmodems.

First is price. In the case of PCI modems, winmodems run from $20-$40 on average, while hardware modems run from $50-$119.

Second is system requirements. If you have the opportunity, check the system requirements for the modems. If they require a minimum of a 486 processor they are hardware. If they require a mid-to-high level Pentium class proc and above, chances are they are software driven modems.

 

[Ulysses]

Your link is bad I think.

I don't know about USB vs. PCI. But yes avoid a &quot;Winmodem&quot; (aka software modem). If the box says the modem requires Windows then it is a Winmodem. Maybe check the manufacturer's site, not the vendor's. Also, all external (ugh) modems are the preferred hardware modem types.

3COM is one of the best modem manufactucers and Winmodem is a tradename of theirs. Not all of their modems are software/Winmodems, of course, and I'd recommend one of their modems for a nice system like you have there. See http://www.3com.com

BTW, with that dual head card be sure to try dual monitors if it's in your budget - they're great and you'll wonder how you got along without them. See http://www.zdnet.com/zdhelp/stories/main/0,5594,2392251,00.html

 

[rnmcd]

How do I edit my original messsage. I thought there was an &quot;EDIT&quot; button to click on?

EDIT:

I see that the original message can't be edited.

Here's the link to the modem I'm considering:



http://www.cyberrebate.com/catalog/product.asp?sts=nwc45&amp;dept%5Fid=1026&amp;pf%5Fid=10871&amp;root%5Fdept%5Fid=1001&amp;root%5Fdept=Computer+%26+Office&amp;first%5Flevel=1007&amp;first%5Flevel%5Fdept=Computer+Accessories&amp;second%5Flevel=1026&amp;second%5Flevel%5Fdept=Peripherals&amp;mscssid=290NRJVAA7SR2LXP00SPNE42WAC27RM4

 

[Modus]

Unless you want to be able to take your modem to parties and use it to pick up chicks, buying an external USB or serial modem is quite pointless. And there are a number of reasons to avoid higher priced &quot;hard modems,&quot; especially those made by 3Com/USR, in favor of a common PCI winmodem.

1) Winmodems are dirt cheap.

A quick comparison of average street prices shows that while a good Lucent LT or Rockwell/Conexant HCF winmodem (the AOpen FM56-PM is a nice example) can easily be found for less than $10 US, the cheapest hardware modem costs twice as much: $39 plus shipping and handling. And for a 3Com part, you'll pay even more. By contrast, you can sometimes find winmodems for $5 after rebates at electronics retailers, or even for free with special promotions.

Everything else we put in our computers is subject to a price/performance ratio. In other words, if the performance of a more expensive part does not scale linearly with its price, we don't buy it. (RDRAM, anyone?) The same reasoning must be applied to hardware modems. They certainly don't perform twice as well as winmodems of half the price, and as we'll see, they often don't perform any better at all.

2) Ping times and throughput are not an issue.

Modern Winmodems such as those based on the Lucent LT chipset will display ping times below 100ms and connect speeds around 48000, which is more than adequate for any Internet activity, including online gaming. Any recent softmodem -- especially the HCF variety, where the hardware handles a bit more of the duty -- should exhibit similar performance. Below, a cut and paste job from a generic Lucent LT v.90 PCI, which sells for as low as $9 on PriceWatch:

C:\WINDOWS>ping -n 10 router.infoserve.net

Pinging router.infoserve.net [199.175.157.4] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 199.175.157.4: bytes=32 time=101ms TTL=253
Reply from 199.175.157.4: bytes=32 time=105ms TTL=253
Reply from 199.175.157.4: bytes=32 time=90ms TTL=253
Reply from 199.175.157.4: bytes=32 time=105ms TTL=253
Reply from 199.175.157.4: bytes=32 time=90ms TTL=253
Reply from 199.175.157.4: bytes=32 time=105ms TTL=253
Reply from 199.175.157.4: bytes=32 time=90ms TTL=253
Reply from 199.175.157.4: bytes=32 time=105ms TTL=253
Reply from 199.175.157.4: bytes=32 time=90ms TTL=253
Reply from 199.175.157.4: bytes=32 time=105ms TTL=253

Ping statistics for 199.175.157.4:
Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 90ms, Maximum = 105ms, Average = 98ms

You may object that pinging an ISP would always yield good results. Actually, it's the only fair way to compare latency between modems. Pinging your ISP reduces the number of variables down to three: your modem's performance, the quality of your phone lines, and the nature of your ISP's modem pool. If we were to compare modems by pinging a fixed point on the Internet, we would quickly introduce several more uncontrolled variables: Internet traffic, server load, number of hops, etc.

Even if you ping your own ISP with an expensive hardware modem, I think you'll find it extremely difficult to match these numbers.

Not bad for $9, eh?

3) CPU utilization is minimal.

One of the main arguments against winmodems has been that they consume CPU cycles. Fortunately, manufacturers have always made sure to set minimum CPU guidelines so that the effect is not noticeable. If CPU usage was ever a problem, it certainly isn't today.

CPU power has increased many, many times faster than the technology behind softmodems. For instance, the CPU usage of a typical winmodem hovers below 5% on a Celeron 333. This is in the range of the power required by Windows to spin an hourglass cursor; it's certainly not something that will eat into your game play significantly. And now we have people running around with 1 GHz processors. Any drop in frame rate will barely be measurable, let alone visible.

4) They are reliable.

In my consulting business, I've sold dozens of PC's equipped with the cheapest Winmodems I could find. Only one has ever come back with a genuine hardware defect.

Many ISP support techs have a grudge against winmodems because they feel these types of modems are responsible for an innordinate number of support calls. There are a couple of reasons for this. First, almost all new computers sold today use winmodems; a person with a new computer and a modem problem will likely be using a winmodem, simply because they are more prevalent. Second, winmodems actually require the drivers they ship with. A new PC user who can't tell the difference between his RAM and his hard drive space will feel his eyes glaze over when confronted with a manual telling him how to install softmodem drivers. Instinct tells him to phone his &quot;Internet guys&quot; and get them to help.

In truth, winmodems are no more apt to fail than hardware modems, and probably less so, because they have fewer electronic components.

5) Driver/OS support is excellent.

The Lucent LT, for example, supports Windows 2000, Windows 9x, Linux (see http://www.linmodems.org under the Vendor section), and even the obscure BeOS. Lucent also seems comitted to releasing a new driver every few months, which means your modem's performance will always be as high as possible.

6) Affordable broadband Internet technology puts any analogue modem to shame.

Anyone using the Internet for more than email and chat sees the need for widely available broadband Internet access to replace our antiquated 56k connections. Trying to enjoy streaming audio or video over a modem connection is like trying to sip a thick milkshake through a thin straw. With the availability and affordability of high speed Internet access growing at a steady rate, it would be foolish to invest more than the minimum amount in modem technology that is already obsolete.

So when you consider the facts, there are very few valid reasons to avoid winmodems.

Modus

 

[Soccerman]

go for a PCI modem.. why? USB uses CPU time on it's own, whether you have a mouse, Keyboard harddrive.

eg, you have an IDE and a USB harddrive. USB one always will use more CPU time.

USB mouse vs PS/2 Mouse. USB kills more CPU time. The only thing I think USB is good for is peripherals (joysticks, racing wheels) becuase you don't run out of ports sooo damned fast.

 

[pm]

Modus hit the nail on the head. Nice post.

Nearly all PCI modems are Winmodems.

As far as USB versus PCI, I'd go PCI, but that's me. I disagree with Soccerman, though. USB uses more CPU time if you only have one device on the chain. So if you are comparing a PS/2 mouse vs. a USB mouse and the only thing on the USB chain is the mouse, then it's true that the USB mouse will use more CPU time than the PS/2 mouse - although the difference is very small in either case. But if you add a keyboard, a mouse, and a modem, then these three devices under USB will use less CPU time than they did when they were hooked into the ports and the ISA slot - especially if the modem is the ISA card in the box.

 

[slurp]

Having both on different machines, I can only say that the 2 different USB modems are deadly slow connecting. PCI modems can and often do create device conflicts, especially in a newly built box. I am not sure if your mobo has an ISA slot, but you might want to consider that just to save system resources.

 

[rnmcd]

Does anyone else agree that an ISA modem would be a good choice?

 

[thermite88]

An ISA modem is an excellent choice. The modem is an interim solution until you get cable or DSL service in your area. You want to limit the spending on the phone modem.

A winmodem is cheap and would serve you well if you live close to a TCO. But most people who live in the suburb where DSL service is not yet available will be better served by a hardware modem because the phone line condition is less than ideal most of the time.

A PCI hardware modem is rather expensive, but 3com ISA hardware modem can be purchased as OEM for about $50 and even cheaper at &quot;Ebay&quot; used. A 3com hardware modem can handle less than perfect phone line much better than any winmodem.

Purchase a PCI winmodem from Best Buy or CompUSA. It is often less than $10 when it is on sale. Try it out. If you can get fast and reialbe connection consistently, keep the modem. If you connect at 33.6 or slower most of the time and experience dropped line, return the winmodem and get a 3com hardware modem.

>>The COMET DELUXE is based on Cirrus Logic DSP Controller-less chipset

This modem is usually available for $20 or less at retail stores. The $129 price is ridiculous. Why would anyone want to loan the vendor $129 for several weeks waiting for the rebate?

 

[Ulysses]

Modus' reply is adequate if you are a corporate type user, who in most cases will have very good phone lines. When you have 'clean' phone lines any modem is OK - they'll all perform the same !! In those cases a $9 modem is as good as a $300 one (except for CPU utilization).

Ping times, shming times - again, it's the phone lines, stupid.

The reason that people buy the more expensive modems, such as 3COM/USR types, is because traditionally they have performed better when the going gets tough, which is more likely to occur with residential neighborhoods' phone lines. This is why if you get DSL service from the phone company they will probably check your home's phone lines twice before they do any installation work - they want to be sure the lines are good. When you buy that $9 modem nobody checks the phone lines except you every time you use it - and you can only hope you that didn't get what you paid for.

So, in the end the only real issue with software modems is the question of CPU utilization. On this point I have never seen objective data reflecting utilization rates as low as 5%. I have seen data with rates ranging from 6% to 25%. Most popular reviews I've seen, which are aimed at residential types, still tend to recommend hardware modems if you are gaming with them or running multiple apps. Personally I'd err on the conservative side and avoid a software/Winmodem - but not if I was corporate type user, as Modus suggests.

 

[Modus]

Ulysses,

<<Modus' reply is adequate if you are a corporate type user, who in most cases will have very good phone lines.>>

Actually my reply is completely irrelevant to corporate environments because these are dominated by fixed LAN's with dedicated, high bandwidth Internet connections.

<<The reason that people buy the more expensive modems, such as 3COM/USR types, is because traditionally they have performed better when the going gets tough, which is more likely to occur with residential neighborhoods' phone lines.>>

Not necessarily. Modern winmodems handle line noise quite well. In fact, one recent poster found that his 3Com ISA 56k Hardware modem would only connect at 28.8 while his cheap PCI winmodem did 45k. Line noise does strange things to a modem connection and it's impossible to predict how well a certain technology will perform.

In my experience, the phone line quality of a typical residence is more than adequate for even the most finicky winmodems. Maybe the Canadian infastructure is just better, but I've never encountered a home with exceptionally poor lines; the worst I've seen is a 31200 connection -- still not bad for thirty-year-old wiring in an old apartment complex.

<<So, in the end the only real issue with software modems is the question of CPU utilization. On this point I have never seen objective data reflecting utilization rates as low as 5%.>>

Well, there's MY data, which is arguably more objective than that of a hardware magazine or web site which must tailor to advertisors and cowtow to companies to get product samples. I have no axe to grind or agenda to promote. I'm just some guy.

Actually, there have been very few objective studies of modern winmodems because of the industry bias against them. People &quot;in the know&quot; decided long ago that anything consuming CPU power is inherently evil, and left it at that. They have ignored the slow but steady advancement in softmodem technology.

But here's something to think about if you don't believe me:

PCTel (widely regarded as the worst of the softmodem chipset names) requires a P133 for optimal winmodem performance. A quick look at the AT command list for their HSP modem drivers shows that CPU usage is capped at 70% by default, meaning that a PCTel winmodem will never consume more than 70% of a P133, and usually much less. Now, if we assume that a Celeron 333 uses a P2 core which is roughly 50% faster than an equivalently clocked P1 core, we can extrapolate and say that a PCTel winmodem will never consume more than 19% of a Celeron 333.

So given that a bottom-of-the-barrel HSP PCTel chipset will not eat more than 19% of a Celeron 333, is it so hard to believe a good Lucent LT, using HCF technology that offloads some duty onto hardware, could hover around 5 per cent during normal use? And of course, the C/333 is ancient in today's terms. The average modern machine is around 700 MHz.

Trying to take on an Athlon 700 with a modern winmodem is like trying to take on a charging rhino with a squirt gun.

Modus

 

[Angrymarshmello]

If you're using it for online gaming AVOID USB LIKE THE PLAGUE - latency out the wazoo

 

[Eug]

&quot;a PCTel winmodem will never consume more than 19% of a Celeron 333&quot;

Ouch! That's a lot of CPU cycles! So basically, someone with a shiny new Celeron 600 is gonna be losing > 10% of his/her processing power with a low-end winmodem.

Is it that bad to spend $15 more for a hardware modem? Sure, it might be twice as much, but the absolute amounts we're talking about are small.

Better yet, save the $15 and buy a NIC and subscribe to DSL.

 

[Vrangel]

rnmcd
Do you play online games?

Modus
make your posts shorter will ya?

 

[shine]

I have the USB Supra Express and cant stand it. I cant even do simple things such as play mp3s and logon to the internet at the same time. (the mp3 will skip horribly) Avoid the usb modem at all costs.

I've owned several modems in my quest for the perfect setup for online modem gaming (mainly the Half Life Counterstrike mod) The best modem I found was the &quot;ActionTec Call Waiting Modem PCI&quot;

http://www.actiontec.com/

It out performed all of my other modems, includeing my ISA supra express, and 3com modem. I have several lying around heh.

Keep in mind I used these modems with a great ISP, Mindspring, which is now owned by Earthlink. All new customers who sign up, use Earthlink's network which isnt as good as mindspring in my opinion.

As of last week, I now use Sprint/Earthlink DSL, and lovin it.

 

[MGMorden]

I've got one of the Lucent Winmodems, and it works fine. I can play online games fine, and I notice no performance difference in my computer between this modem and my 33.6 hardware modem. Only reason i'd say to go with the hardware modem is if you use Linux (which I do quite often, but I'm usually using an ethernet internet connection as well). Even though the Lucent has linux drivers they are not very reliable, and I've never gotten them to work very well. Other than that though, just go with the cheap solution. ISA slots are dissapearing off motherboards anyways and most people in non-rural areas will me dropping modems very soon anyways, so why blow a lot of cash on a device you'll only use for a year or two at most?

 

[Modus]

Eug,

<<Ouch! That's a lot of CPU cycles! So basically, someone with a shiny new Celeron 600 is gonna be losing > 10% of his/her processing power with a low-end winmodem.>>

Wrong. First of all, the figure is closer to 8% since the Celeron 600 is more than twice as fast as the C/333. Second, that 8% is the maximum CPU load that would ever occur; typical results would be lower. Third, there is no reason to get a PCTel winmodem when a Lucent LT only costs $9 and eats a paltry 5% of a Celeron 333.

So CPU usage is not a valid reason to avoid a PCI winmodem. It's insignificant. Can you really tell the difference between 100 fps and 105? I doubt it. Save your money.

<<Is it that bad to spend $15 more for a hardware modem? Sure, it might be twice as much, but the absolute amounts we're talking about are small.>>

Few things are absolute. Most things are relative. And show me a $24 hardware modem. The cheapest on PriceWatch is $36 -- fully four times more expensive than a $9 Lucent LT which will perform so similarly that even I would not be able to tell the difference.

Vrangle,

<<make your posts shorter will ya?>>

I don't know about the length, but I can certainly try to use smaller words for your sake. . .

Would that be OK with you, Vrangle? I hope it would. Because I want to make you happy. I will use short sentences. And short words. And when I use a big word, like &quot;sentences&quot;, I'll explain it for you.

(Sentences are bunches of words stuck together to make sense.)

OK?

Modus

 

[MaJik]

Ive had a few winmodems and a few &quot;true&quot; modems, There is a difference in my modems, i have a 3COM/USR PCI 56k modem in my gaming computer (cable and DSL is not available, you know the average household can only get IDSL? I don't know why everyone assumes its available.) My ping is probably 20ms or more less, and i connect at higher speeds with it conpaired to winmodems....

And most PCI modems arn't winmodems, read up on it before you buy it, you don't have to get a 3COM gaming modem (ive read reviews on it, and it is basicly the same as the normal 3COM PCI 56k modem, with a few tweaks, but they didn't notice anything different in pings or anything when they tested it.)
I think ELSA Makes a pretty good modem (not winmodem's) that are pretty cheap (40$ at buy.com)

 

[Vrangel]

Modus
you are making progress.Less spam is better.

BTW I am switching from DSL to cable and have nothing but winmodem right now.
Its a cheap piece of crap just like most of them are.Disconnects me every now and then.
Oh well, you get what you pay for. Rejoice.

 

[Modus]

Majik,

<<My ping is probably 20ms or more less, and i connect at higher speeds with it conpaired to winmodems....>>

Actually you just proved my point. Depending on the average latency, which is usually between 100 and 300 ms, a difference of 20ms in ping times ranges from minor to insignificant. The most it could ever amount to is about a 20% latency decrease -- this for a 300% price increase. It just doesn't add up.

Vrangle,

<<Its a cheap piece of crap just like most of them are.>>

Why that's too bad. I did not know that. I am sorry to hear that. I thought they were good! But I guess I don't have as much experience (time working) with them as you do. Golly, I've only built, sold, and serviced (fixed), dozens (twelves) and dozens of computers with winmodems. What do I know? Your one single (alone) experience (thing that happened to you) conclusively (surely) proves that winmodems are terrible (bad).

OK?

Modus

 

[Ulysses]

Modus:

You can use real big words with me - that's OK. (he he he)

I have the sneaking feeling you're right with the points you first made. But I just like to be conservative. I run my PC at 124 MHz FSB instead of 133. I put a coupla extra fans in my case. I don't upgrade every program right away when there's a new release, and I only use a few downloaded programs that I really need. My system tray has only my a-virus, zone alarm and a macro utility. And when I used a dial-up modem it was a 3COM hardware internal ISA model.

I'm not saying others should do this, but the result for me is that my PC is dead rock stable - I can't remember when it last froze or gave me a BSOD - even when I occasionally get a &quot;this program ... and will be shut down&quot; message, neither any apps or the PC usually are shut down, and I just keep working.

And I almost always have multiple apps and windows open on two monitors. And my sound card, with an Aureal A3D chip, is a well known CPU hog. So I remain concerned about any marginal increase in CPU usage by softmodems.

Your data may be right on this question of CPU usage, which to me is the only real issue. I briefly rooted around for relevant info but found nothing very recent that was worthwhile. But my inclination is not to look to forums like this for answers to this type of question (although there are obviously mang very knowledgeable people participating). I have found many publications in many different fields that do 'tell it like it is' and do not cow-tow to advertisers and are very successful because of this policy. It's actually the web where you get more garbage than you can believe - which is why you maade your first reply. (he he he)

In any event the industry is certainly going your way - startlingly, 3COM was sold off not long ago I believe, in part perhaps because of the growing prevalence of lower cost modems.

 

[pm]

Majik: take a look at this

http://www.kcdata.com/~gromitkc/20000726a.html

and you will notice that virtually all PCI modems are Winmodems. There are very few exceptions on the list.

Edit: I'm nearly certain that the Elsa Microlink 56 PCI is a Winmodem. It certainly doesn't work with Linux (Elsa has openly admitted this), and that's usually an obvious sign. Plus the website driver actually looks like a driver (it's 400k+) and not a simple like an .INF file

To be honest, I totally agree with Modus - this Winmodem thing is overblown. The CPU cycle hit is neglible and the price more than makes up for any infinitesimal hit in system performance. You could take the money and save up for a better video card and come out ahead.

 

[H8tank]

I think pm hit upon this:


<< And most PCI modems arn't winmodems, >>



That is a bucket of crap statement. Your light of ignorance just popped with that one kid.

I've used dozens of different modems, and for gaming, a Hardware based PCI modem is the best. Second, a Hardware based ISA modem. Third? Take up board games cause winmodem gaming sux, unless you're into the 2-d world of internet role playing.

I compare modus's rant for winmodems to cliton's shaking finger, I DID NOT HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH THAT WOMAN!!!, it's a bunch of crap.

 

[Modus]

Ulysses,

<<I have the sneaking feeling you're right with the points you first made. But I just like to be conservative.>>

I respect people who are conservative and value stability above performance. I just think that being conservative with money is even higher on the priority list. And recent winmodem drivers are fairly stable. In fact, I get more Illegal Operations now that I use a NIC for ADSL than when I was using my motherboard's integrated PCTel micromodem for 56k dialup.

<<Your data may be right on this question of CPU usage, which to me is the only real issue. I briefly rooted around for relevant info but found nothing very recent that was worthwhile.>>

There's nothing worthwile because no one in the PC hardware community questioned the initial assumptions about winmodems. It has been widely accepted -- without real testing on recent systems -- that winmodems incur processor usage unacceptable for demanding applications like online 3D gaming. It's easy to say &quot;hardware is better than software&quot; without doing any serious research. At the same time, millions of people can and do use softmodem technology in conjunction with online 3D gaming and don't see what all the fuss is about.

Modus