• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Is there a time when a person can't "honor thy father"?

F

friedpie

Senior member
This is a long, crazy story, but I would appreciate anyone's input on this, especially with regard to what the bible says about honoring thy father.

I have a friend who has been at odds with his father for 20 years. It started when his parents split up and his dad ran off with another woman. The father then ignored his children refusing to call them, support them, etc. This hurt my friend (he was 17) at the time because his dad had always been there for him.

Some other things happened over the next couple of years to make my friend angrier at his father. My friend went in the military for 4 years and refused to have any contact with his dad. After he got out of the military he came back home and tried to make up with his dad. Things went OK for the first year but one day while visiting his father on his father's birthday, his father and his whore wife exploded and started cursing the son out for betraying the father. My friend said he was there now trying to make up for the past. The son had been so hurt by his father's actions after he left that he decided a separation (while he was in the military) was best. That infuriated the father and his witchy wife. They could not accept it. My friend asked for their forgiveness (In my opinion he had nothing to be sorry for, his dad was a total jackass, criminal, philanderer, etc who ignored his children when he hooked up with a new hoe) but they wouldn't give it to him. They both cursed him out. There he was on his father's birthday celebrating that and trying to forgive his dad for all the crap, and what happens? They spit in his face.

He left that day and has not had contact with them since. Now here's the kicker. From my talks with my friend it was his dad who was at fault, but my friend is hung up on the bible and "thy shall honor thy father." My friend has been disabled for 10 years, and you know what? His dad has not once called him about it. NOT ONCE. It pisses me off that a father could ignore his disabled son.

I heard a radio talk show host the other day say that kids have no choice in their parents. If the parent is a loser, that's not the kid's fault, and the kid has no responsibility to a lousy parent. I tried relaying that to my friend but he is hung up on the bible thing.

I wish I knew of something in the bible that said a child didn't have to honor a crappy father, I want my friend to get over this thing and stop feeling guilty because his dad is the one in the wrong.

Anyone with any knowledge of the bible, please chime in.

 
I see nothing wrong with your friend being very angry with his father. His father doesn't deserve honor or respect, IMO.


: ) Amanda
 
Cliff's notes (correct me if I get it wrong).

1) Father leaves family, ignores all attempts at contact from family. Father runs off with another worman, son gets livid and joins the military to cool off.
2) Son comes back from the military, works at restoring relationship with father.
3) Things are ok for a year until father and new wife explode at son joining the military to cool off.
4) Son leaves, terribly sad, but is hung up on the bible and is going to continue to try to restore his relationship with his dad.

Right?

I say leave the jerk (the dad) be. It's not worth the frustration.
 
I have some wisdom to impart, oddly enough from of all places Family Guy: "The Bible says honor thy father; it says nothing about liking him."

There's a limit to that commandment. For example, if your father asked you to give him the car keys after having 7 shots of Vodka not giving him the keys wouldn't be violating it. It doesn't mean you have to take everything with a smile, it just means you have to give respect where respect is due, maybe try to look out for his needs from time to time. If he gives you nothing but grief and you can't do anything to really change that then your obligation is non-existant.
 
Originally posted by: ohtwell
I see nothing wrong with your friend being very angry with his father. His father doesn't deserve honor or respect, IMO.


: ) Amanda
Click to expand...

Exactly. I wish I could say I wasn't speaking from personal experience, though. 🙁
 
Ugh, just because someone is a sperm dispenser for his wife doesn't automatically give him the right to respect. That is something that is earned.. your friend needs to ditch the literal meanings of the bible, or else he's going to end up beating himself up over things that will not change.

As for exceptions in the bible, I have no idea. Your friend needs to realize, that as valid as many people see the bible to be, any realistic mind has to recognize that many, many aspects of it are based upon very old, outdated moral codes.
 
The bible, I think, makes amends for common sense. If your father is a raving lunatic who has killed a dozen people and likes to wash himself in feces while watching jerry springer and torturing people do you really think God expects for you to honor him? I don't.
 
No, there isn't. I don't think that's the issue. The issue usually is what it means to honour. Maybe I'm just plain technical as my counterpart has accused me, but I do think that we have a very interesting and sugarcoated perception of "honouring". The Bible also says that parents should respect their kids. Unfortunately I do not have the liberty to check for the relevant verses at the moment.

"I have a friend who has been at odds with his father for 20 years. It started when his parents split up and his dad ran off with another woman. The father then ignored his children refusing to call them, support them, etc. This hurt my friend (he was 17) at the time because his dad had always been there for him."

Now, this would really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really piss me off. However, I can understand somethings here and would have the heart to forgive my dad if he were there for me up until the age of 17. Funny my Uncle has this problem. He was a great dad and lived a splendid life. However, his marital problem hadn't reached its climax until things started to go bad for him financially. He had a wife that was demanding and very much into material things. She was also verbally abusive. I think he always had this craving to please her financially. So when things went really bad financially, the family was split. The kids no longer could enjoy the luxurious life, so they felt denied the comfort. The mother exploited this and dragged the kids into her battle with their father. She packed herself, the kids, and all of the luxuries and went messing with someone else. My uncle too went messing with someone else soon, except he didn't carry all of the material things with him--since his wife had them. (He spent lavishly again, even though he didn't have the money!) Then their mum came back and wanted their dad. He tried the relationship again but was being driven crazy with this woman. So he made the decision that it was over . . . but not whilst he was still messing with some other lady, who was much younger. And he just couldn't get his wife to accept the "no". She pushed on. Anyway, it's just crazy and confusing. I don't know if it's a Supreme Being responding to my Uncle's prayer, but the mother of his kids who was verbally and physically abusive just died. She died of a heart attack whilst being belligerent with her neighbour.

Anyway, this isn't really relevant. The reason I brought it up is 'cuz from the point of view of my Uncle's kids, he abandoned them--in spite of being there for them until their late teens (i.e., 17/18 the youngest age at that time). I always had respect for my Uncle, but I was sometimes disgusted. On the one hand, I think that his kids were spoilt brats. On the other hand, I have trouble understanding his sudden attitude of "I don't care" to offer emotional stability and won't try to help them financially. After all, he, in addition to his late and estranged wife, were the reason the children grew up to be spoilt brats. They've always known that comfort zone. Even at their mum's burial, the kids and their father were not in speaking terms.

I say, let it take its cause. Eventually either kids or dad will reconcile. Now, back to the "honour" discussion: From my point of view, "honour" does not mean to condone the conduct of a parent. It does not mean to pick up the phone and talk to the parent when you know you have trouble communicating well (i.e., without outbursts or tension). I think honour means not talking bad about a parent. It means not being on the offensive side. Uhmm . . . I would say forget daddy if he wasn't ever there for you, but in this case he was there for his son up till at least age 17 where he could fend for himself. So he should have the heart to forgive. But forgiving is different from being foolish. He can change his attitude toward his dad, but he doesn't have to condone his dad's behaviour nor should he act as a fool and willingly subject himself to verbal abuse. Again, you can change your attitude, but you can't change someone elses. Oh, and I should add: It takes so much energy to begrudge. It is not healthy for your friend to begrudge his dad. It would be killing his soul slowly, so it's in his best interest to forgive his dad, but forgiving does not mean condoning.

Oh . . . I talked longer than I imagined. Forgive me, please. Hope my expressed view made sense. 😱
 
Originally posted by: luvly
No, there isn't. I don't think that's the issue. The issue usually is what it means to honour. Maybe I'm just plain technical as my counterpart has accused me, but I do think that we have a very interesting and sugarcoated perception of "honouring". The Bible also says that parents should respect their kids. Unfortunately I do not have the liberty to check for the relevant verses at the moment.

"I have a friend who has been at odds with his father for 20 years. It started when his parents split up and his dad ran off with another woman. The father then ignored his children refusing to call them, support them, etc. This hurt my friend (he was 17) at the time because his dad had always been there for him."

Now, this would really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really piss me off. However, I can understand somethings here and would have the heart to forgive my dad if he were there for me up until the age of 17. Funny my Uncle has this problem. He was a great dad and lived a splendid life. However, his marital problem hadn't reached its climax until things started to go bad for him financially. He had a wife that was demanding and very much into material things. She was also verbally abusive. I think he always had this craving to please her financially. So when things went really bad financially, the family was split. The kids no longer could enjoy the luxurious life, so they felt denied the comfort. The mother exploited this and dragged the kids into her battle with their father. She packed herself, the kids, and all of the luxuries and went messing with someone else. My uncle too went messing with someone else soon, except he didn't carry all of the material things with him--since his wife had them. (He spent lavishly again, even though he didn't have the money!) Then their mum came back and wanted their dad. He tried the relationship again but was being driven crazy with this woman. So he made the decision that it was over . . . but not whilst he was still messing with some other lady, who was much younger. And he just couldn't get his wife to accept the "no". She pushed on. Anyway, it's just crazy and confusing. I don't know if it's a Supreme Being responding to my Uncle's prayer, but the mother of his kids who was verbally and physically abusive just died. She died of a heart attack whilst being belligerent with her neighbour.

Anyway, this isn't really relevant. The reason I brought it up is 'cuz from the point of view of my Uncle's kids, he abandoned them--in spite of being there for them until their late teens (i.e., 17/18 the youngest age at that time). I always had respect for my Uncle, but I was sometimes disgusted. On the one hand, I think that his kids were spoilt brats. On the other hand, I have trouble understanding his sudden attitude of "I don't care" to offer emotional stability and won't try to help them financially. After all, he, in addition to his late and estranged wife, were the reason the children grew up to be spoilt brats. They've always known that comfort zone. Even at their mum's burial, the kids and their father were not in speaking terms.

I say, let it take its cause. Eventually either kids or dad will reconcile. Now, back to the "honour" discussion: From my point of view, "honour" does not mean to condone the conduct of a parent. It does not mean to pick up the phone and talk to the parent when you know you have trouble communicating well (i.e., without outbursts or tension). I think honour means not talking bad about a parent. It means not being on the offensive side. Uhmm . . . I would say forget daddy if he wasn't ever there for you, but in this case he was there for his son up till at least age 17 where he could fend for himself. So he should have the heart to forgive. But forgiving is different from being foolish. He can change his attitude toward his dad, but he doesn't have to condone his dad's behaviour nor should he act as a fool and willingly subject himself to verbal abuse. Again, you can change your attitude, but you can't change someone elses. Oh, and I should add: It takes so much energy to begrudge. It is not healthy for your friend to begrudge his dad. It would be killing his soul slowly, so it's in his best interest to forgive his dad, but forgiving does not mean condoning.

Oh . . . I talked longer than I imagined. Forgive me, please. Hope my expressed view made sense. 😱
Click to expand...

What they said.
 
Luvly,

Interesting thoughts.

I was reminded of the saying "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

My friend tried to make up with his father after he returned from the military only to be kicked in the nuts. And since he has been disabled his crappy father has not called him once. I think my friend's real problem is that he is worried about what to do if his old man dies. His father is probably in his late 60s or early 70s.

If it was me, I wouldn't go to the bastard's funeral, but my friend is hung up on that honor thy father crap and feels like he must go to honor him.

I always thought "honor thy mother and father" was an admonishment for children to obey and respect their parents.

I also agree with whoever said that being a sperm donor is nothing special. That's just me.
 
Originally posted by: friedpie
This is a long, crazy story, but I would appreciate anyone's input on this, especially with regard to what the bible says about honoring thy father.

I have a friend who has been at odds with his father for 20 years. It started when his parents split up and his dad ran off with another woman. The father then ignored his children refusing to call them, support them, etc. This hurt my friend (he was 17) at the time because his dad had always been there for him.

Some other things happened over the next couple of years to make my friend angrier at his father. My friend went in the military for 4 years and refused to have any contact with his dad. After he got out of the military he came back home and tried to make up with his dad. Things went OK for the first year but one day while visiting his father on his father's birthday, his father and his whore wife exploded and started cursing the son out for betraying the father. My friend said he was there now trying to make up for the past. The son had been so hurt by his father's actions after he left that he decided a separation (while he was in the military) was best. That infuriated the father and his witchy wife. They could not accept it. My friend asked for their forgiveness (In my opinion he had nothing to be sorry for, his dad was a total jackass, criminal, philanderer, etc who ignored his children when he hooked up with a new hoe) but they wouldn't give it to him. They both cursed him out. There he was on his father's birthday celebrating that and trying to forgive his dad for all the crap, and what happens? They spit in his face.

He left that day and has not had contact with them since. Now here's the kicker. From my talks with my friend it was his dad who was at fault, but my friend is hung up on the bible and "thy shall honor thy father." My friend has been disabled for 10 years, and you know what? His dad has not once called him about it. NOT ONCE. It pisses me off that a father could ignore his disabled son.

I heard a radio talk show host the other day say that kids have no choice in their parents. If the parent is a loser, that's not the kid's fault, and the kid has no responsibility to a lousy parent. I tried relaying that to my friend but he is hung up on the bible thing.

I wish I knew of something in the bible that said a child didn't have to honor a crappy father, I want my friend to get over this thing and stop feeling guilty because his dad is the one in the wrong.

Anyone with any knowledge of the bible, please chime in.
Click to expand...

I'd tell him the same thing my step-dad told me when I got my ex pregnant. There's a lot more to being a 'father' than donating sperm. If he doesn't act like a father, then he isn't a father, and your friend shouldn't feel the least bit bad about not 'honoring' him. A real father would always have room at his table for his son regardless of the past.
 
well, from the sound of it, your friend has made attempts at ammending problems with his father. If his father is unwilling to accept his own son, then there's not much else your friend can do. Just by showing that he is trying to fix things up, though, your friend is in a sence "honoring" his father.

The only thing that your friend can try to do now is pray about it, understand the difficulties that his dad might be facing, and have pity on him for the wrong decisions he has made in his life. But ultimately, in trying to honor his father, your friend should rather feel sorry for the way his dad is, rather than denying and hating him.
 
random thoughts on the matter (really random...):
----
well, from my own stand-point i would say: there is always a time to not honor your father. it's a part in the developement of a child to an adult. to realize that you have your own live to live and not to rip whatever out just for the honors sake (don't say that to a yakusa😉) (even if after that it may or may not be back for good)
----
from the biblical standpoint (well for those who believe in): even jesus failed to honor his father. just remember his last words before he died. wasn't that kind of dishonoring of the father? the break, the point in time where jesus ultimatly failed to trust his father?
----
(again based own my own beliefs it was essential for christ to break from the father-figure (god). he was ressurected and brought to heaven were he is king. well just EDIT a /EDIT stupid a$$ theory, as i don't take the bible literelly at all...😛 )
----
about your friend: he tried to make it up, and it worked for some time, but if the father doesn't want to... surely your friend's fvckin angry, so would i !!! even god gets angry and destroys everything he judges as evil (episode with noah, and supposingly armaggeddon)
----
there is a story where jesus tells about an angry kid who leeves home for bad and when he return, even though the child made some serious sh1at the father welcomes him home for good. that's the exaple that jesus gave of a father deserved to being honored.
----
in the bible it's written to not murder. but in the old testament capital punishment was common (which some people believe it's a kind of murder too). so the things written in the bible don't even are absolut in the bible itself.

==this intermezzo is brought to you by the writer of uncounted stupid pointless storys and forum-posts===
note to self: once again you tried to play macgyver in the attempt to bring some ideas to help... but unlike macgyver it's just a random patch of things who doesn't help sh1at...
self replies: so what, once again i screwed you're mind.
note to self: wtf? you are part of my mind!
self replies: i know... *sigh*
==intermezzo over===

your friend needs to get it out of the system... for the sake of himself.

=====
(wow i never thought i could write long posts as luvly does...)
(i promise to never do that again😉)
and the EDIT was important😛
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top