Is there a problem in this country that Obama won't fix via more spending?

[ProfJohn]

Just a small example from his web site.

Obama may talk about change, but he seems to be just another tax and spend liberal.
Economy:

Obama will create a new "Making Work Pay" tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family.

Barack Obama believes we need to double federal funding for basic research and make the research and development tax credit permanent to help create high-paying, secure jobs.

The Obama plan will increase funding for federal workforce training programs and direct these programs to incorporate green technologies training, such as advanced manufacturing and weatherization training, into their efforts to help Americans find and retain stable, high-paying jobs.

Obama will create a 10 percent universal mortgage credit to provide homeowners who do not itemize tax relief.

Obama will create a fund to help people refinance their mortgages and provide comprehensive supports to innocent homeowners.

Obama will provide a $1.5 billion fund to assist states with start-up costs and to help states offset the costs for employees and employers.

Obama will double funding for the main federal support for afterschool programs,

Education

Obama will create Early Learning Challenge Grants to promote state "zero to five" efforts and help states move toward voluntary, universal pre-school.

Obama will quadruple Early Head Start, increase Head Start funding and improve quality for both.

Obama will also provide affordable and high-quality child care to ease the burden on working families.

Obama will reform NCLB, which starts by funding the law.

Obama will address the dropout crisis by passing his legislation to provide funding to school districts to invest in intervention strategies in middle school

Obama will double funding for the main federal support for afterschool programs,

Obama will create new Teacher Service Scholarships

Obama will make college affordable for all Americans by creating a new American Opportunity Tax Credit.

Energy

Obama will invest $150 billion over 10 years to advance the next generation of biofuels and fuel infrastructure...

Obama will double science and research funding for clean energy projects...

Obama will invest $10 billion per year into this fund for five years.

Family

Obama will provide a $1.5 billion fund to assist states with start-up costs and to help states offset the costs for employees and employers.

Barack Obama will double funding for the main federal support for afterschool programs

Foreign Policy

he will double our foreign assistance to $50 billion to achieve that goal.

Obama will increase the size of ground forces, adding 65,000 soldiers to the Army and 27,000 Marines.

Healthcare

Subsidies. Individuals and families who do not qualify for Medicaid or SCHIP but still need financial assistance will receive an income-related federal subsidy to buy into the new public plan or purchase a private health care plan.

Obama will expand eligibility for the Medicaid and SCHIP programs and ensure that these programs continue to serve their critical safety net function.

Obama will invest $10 billion a year over the next five years to move the U.S. health care system to broad adoption of standards-based electronic health information systems

Obama will strengthen funding for biomedical research...

Poverty

Obama will invest $1 billion over five years in transitional jobs and career pathway programs that implement proven methods of helping low-income Americans succeed in the workforce.

Obama will double the federal Jobs Access and Reverse Commute program...

There are more, but I got tired of reading them.
Add up the per year cost of the just the programs he actually lists dollar values for and you end up with $60 billion alone.
That doesn't account for how much increasing the size of the military by 92,000 members will cost.
Nor does include all those nice tax breaks Obama is going to hand out.

According to some his spending plans would amount to $850 billion in new spending over a four year term.

*EDIT*
More data on Obama spending.
His healthcare plan will cost $65 billion a year.
His military expansion will cost $6 billion a year.
Eliminating income taxes on lower income seniors will cost $10 billion a year.
So new math... $141 billion a year and that does not include all of his programs.

 

[Rio Rebel]

I am amazed that republicans continue to use the phrase "tax and spend liberal" without turning red-faced in shame. Given the choice between democrats who want to increase spending on domestic programs we can't afford, and republicans who want to freeze domestic spending but spend three times that amount on the military and on nation building, it seems an easy choice to pick the democrats.

Then again, I heard some of them don't wear flag pins, so we can't trust them...

 

[RichardE]

You ignore the oversight he wants to put into place to ensure the money is spent properly. He has touched upon this a few times when it was brought up, how you have to efficiently spend, you cannot throw money at a problem that it will not help to hope it goes away, and money you do spend needs to be accounted for. You are too use to republicans sending blank checks to everyone saying just charge it to understand that efficient spending will mean less money being spent in the end.

 

[CPA]

Oversight...please.

You did forget, however, his desire to give a percentage of our GDP for poor countries and there is no mention of universal healthcare which we all know is his top agenda.

And as for spending domestic versus military spending, read the Constitution and tell me which is more appropriate for the Feds to spend money on.

 

[umbrella39]

Trillions spent on the GWOT is much better than spending it at home right.

 

[Lemon law]

Despite Republican myths of the GOP being the party of fiscal restraint, the fact is and remains that Ronald Reagan and GWB are the two greatest deficit spenders in US history. With a democratic congress earmarks are way down and some of what Obama proposes simply reallocates the way the Federal government already spends monies. Under GHB and Bill Clinton, it took some 12 years of fiscal sanity to undue much of the damage Reagan caused. God only knows how long it will take to undo the damages of 8 years of GWB&co.

As usual, Non Prof John is somewhere out there in la la land, totally divorced from reality. In a land where false image is more important than substance.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: CPA
Oversight...please.

You did forget, however, his desire to give a percentage of our GDP for poor countries and there is no mention of universal healthcare which we all know is his top agenda.

And as for spending domestic versus military spending, read the Constitution and tell me which is more appropriate for the Feds to spend money on.

Because you can put a cost on UH? How much would the study cost to get that price specific? Or did you want numbers thrown on a check mailed out since you don't believe in oversight.

 

[Rio Rebel]

Which part of the Constitution says that we should spend money building Iraq, rather than our own domestic concerns? Maybe I just missed that part.

 

[ProfJohn]

I am confused by the responses I see so far...

You guys constantly complain about Bush's spending and the deficit and debt, but have no problem with Obama spending tons of money as well.
What happened to a balanced budget?

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I am confused by the responses I see so far...

You guys constantly complain about Bush's spending and the deficit and debt, but have no problem with Obama spending tons of money as well.
What happened to a balanced budget?

Your commander and thief already answered you, we will not see a balanced budget until at least 2012 with the spending GWB already has locked in. And that is a direct GWB quote.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I am confused by the responses I see so far...

You guys constantly complain about Bush's spending and the deficit and debt, but have no problem with Obama spending tons of money as well.
What happened to a balanced budget?

I answered this already. Obama has preached very hard about oversight on the public purse. Unlike GWB&Co who write blank checks to appease everyone Obama does not plan to do that.

 

[ericlp]

I'm confused about your post in general. How does this excuse bush from spending trillions of dollars and still nothing to show for it.


Answer that I guess....

You should be happy he is spending money on the military and education. I mean you have a degree right? Forget about the $$ issue what problems do you have with the items in your post? I mean, tell us how they aren't good for "America"...

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I am confused by the responses I see so far...

You guys constantly complain about Bush's spending and the deficit and debt, but have no problem with Obama spending tons of money as well.
What happened to a balanced budget?

I answered this already. Obama has preached very hard about oversight on the public purse. Unlike GWB&Co who write blank checks to appease everyone Obama does not plan to do that.

If you really believe that then you need to get your rose color glasses replaced.

With the way our congress works if a politician promises to cut $50 billion in spending we end up with $50 in MORE spending.
The idea that Obama can wave a magic wand and fix it via oversight is total BS.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I am confused by the responses I see so far...

You guys constantly complain about Bush's spending and the deficit and debt, but have no problem with Obama spending tons of money as well.
What happened to a balanced budget?

I answered this already. Obama has preached very hard about oversight on the public purse. Unlike GWB&Co who write blank checks to appease everyone Obama does not plan to do that.

If you really believe that then you need to get your rose color glasses replaced.

With the way our congress works if a politician promises to cut $50 billion in spending we end up with $50 in MORE spending.
The idea that Obama can wave a magic wand and fix it via oversight is total BS.

I never said he could.

I find it pathetic you do not think it is possible.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: ericlp
I'm confused about your post in general. How does this excuse bush from spending trillions of dollars and still nothing to show for it.


Answer that I guess....

You should be happy he is spending money on the military and education. I mean you have a degree right? Forget about the $$ issue what problems do you have with the items in your post? I mean, tell us how they aren't good for "America"...

Where did I 'excuse' Bush for his spending?

Didn't even mention Bush in this thread. And you should know that spending is the one thing that conseratitives are most annoyed about when it comes to Bush. Bush's record on spending SUCKS.

Now back to Obama... does a balance budget matter anymore?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: ericlp
I'm confused about your post in general. How does this excuse bush from spending trillions of dollars and still nothing to show for it.


Answer that I guess....

You should be happy he is spending money on the military and education. I mean you have a degree right? Forget about the $$ issue what problems do you have with the items in your post? I mean, tell us how they aren't good for "America"...

Where did I 'excuse' Bush for his spending?

Didn't even mention Bush in this thread. And you should know that spending is the one thing that conseratitives are most annoyed about when it comes to Bush. Bush's record on spending SUCKS.

Now back to Obama... does a balance budget matter anymore?

I didn't know he tabled a full budget yet. Link?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I am confused by the responses I see so far...

You guys constantly complain about Bush's spending and the deficit and debt, but have no problem with Obama spending tons of money as well.
What happened to a balanced budget?

I answered this already. Obama has preached very hard about oversight on the public purse. Unlike GWB&Co who write blank checks to appease everyone Obama does not plan to do that.

If you really believe that then you need to get your rose color glasses replaced.

With the way our congress works if a politician promises to cut $50 billion in spending we end up with $50 in MORE spending.
The idea that Obama can wave a magic wand and fix it via oversight is total BS.

I never said he could.

I find it pathetic you do not think it is possible.

I find it pathetic that you believe it can be done via 'oversight' are you that naive of our history when it comes to spending?

Take a guess at the last time our budget shrank...

1965 and before that? 1955.
We are talking about 50+ years of constant growth in government spending.
Even if Obama did not put forward one new government program our budget would continue to grow. It is the nature of the beast we have created.

On top of that since WW 2 we have NEVER seen a Democrat President with a Democrat Congress pass a balanced budget.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I am confused by the responses I see so far...

You guys constantly complain about Bush's spending and the deficit and debt, but have no problem with Obama spending tons of money as well.
What happened to a balanced budget?

I answered this already. Obama has preached very hard about oversight on the public purse. Unlike GWB&Co who write blank checks to appease everyone Obama does not plan to do that.

If you really believe that then you need to get your rose color glasses replaced.

With the way our congress works if a politician promises to cut $50 billion in spending we end up with $50 in MORE spending.
The idea that Obama can wave a magic wand and fix it via oversight is total BS.

I never said he could.

I find it pathetic you do not think it is possible.

I find it pathetic that you believe it can be done via 'oversight' are you that naive of our history when it comes to spending?

Take a guess at the last time our budget shrank...

1965 and before that? 1955.
We are talking about 50+ years of constant growth in government spending.
Even if Obama did not put forward one new government program our budget would continue to grow. It is the nature of the beast we have created.

On top of that since WW 2 we have NEVER seen a Democrat President with a Democrat Congress pass a balanced budget.

And politics has been the same more or less since the new deal. You don't think it will ever change?

Tell me PJ, why won't it ever change?

 

[ProfJohn]

It won't change because of the nature of the system.
Reps and Senators are rewarded by bringing home dollars to their home states.

To change the system we would need a balanced budget amendment that would force congress to control spending. But it would also have to have a tax control component or else congress would just increase taxes in order to pay for all their great little programs.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
It won't change because of the nature of the system.
Reps and Senators are rewarded by bringing home dollars to their home states.

To change the system we would need a balanced budget amendment that would force congress to control spending. But it would also have to have a tax control component or else congress would just increase taxes in order to pay for all their great little programs.

Well, its going to have to change either way. McCain with no ear marks, or Obama with oversight. Take your pick, will be interesting to see how it works.

 

[sandorski]

Progress is being made, you now recognize when you are confused. In time you'll see what we've been seeing all along.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
It won't change because of the nature of the system.
Reps and Senators are rewarded by bringing home dollars to their home states.

To change the system we would need a balanced budget amendment that would force congress to control spending. But it would also have to have a tax control component or else congress would just increase taxes in order to pay for all their great little programs.

Well, its going to have to change either way. McCain with no ear marks, or Obama with oversight. Take your pick, will be interesting to see how it works.

We balanced the budget in the 90s by controlling spending. Look at Clinton's two terms and you will not see any major domestic spending increases or programs. Nothing compared to say Medicare Part D.

If we want to balance the budget in the near future we need to forget about any major spending programs and work to control the growth of government. If we limit the growth of spending to about 3-4% the budget will balance itself eventually.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
It won't change because of the nature of the system.
Reps and Senators are rewarded by bringing home dollars to their home states.

To change the system we would need a balanced budget amendment that would force congress to control spending. But it would also have to have a tax control component or else congress would just increase taxes in order to pay for all their great little programs.

Well, its going to have to change either way. McCain with no ear marks, or Obama with oversight. Take your pick, will be interesting to see how it works.

We balanced the budget in the 90s by controlling spending. Look at Clinton's two terms and you will not see any major domestic spending increases or programs. Nothing compared to say Medicare Part D.

If we want to balance the budget in the near future we need to forget about any major spending programs and work to control the growth of government. If we limit the growth of spending to about 3-4% the budget will balance itself eventually.

Again, you said why it would never change, I told you why it would be forced too. With any luck democracy will go back to something you cannot buy. (A pipe dream I know, but any work towards it would be good). As well, until Obama passes a budget you are just speculating. In the end you want a pie chart nice and neatly cut where alot of people want to see where the money is going.

 

[Lemon law]

To a large part, Non Prof John confuses the issues. Domestic spending is largely and investment in ourselves that pays dividends. Something like costly wars and huge military spendings are investments in nothing that pay no dividends.

Lets just take medical exp endures. We can allocate those costs for employers to pay or we can pay them out of the public purse. Either way, as long as the total spent is constant, its a wash. And with a single payer system we can eliminate many bureaucratic inefficiencies. As it is, we make private health care employers pay for both their employees and the built in extra costs for the uninsured. Making their goods less competitive over seas.
As it is, a diminishing number of employers can afford to pay employees health benefits and our existing system is already broken. But much of the increased Federal medical expenditures are a GWB brainfart as all aspects of wise ands unwise budgets have greatly expanded in the GWB years. Going from a basically balanced budgets handed to GWB to the 3.2 trillion in debt GWB has added in seven short years.

The GOP can lay no claim to frugal with that kind of record.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

I'm sure he won't fix trolling on forums.