Is there a point to external sounds cards any more?

[Worthington]

I'm still using my old Xi-Fi Extreme Music Platinum (or something like that) but a new rig is around the corner. Is there any point to either transferring the card to the new machine, or buying something newer. I know embedded audio chips are light years better than they used to be so is there even any point to a dedicated sound card? From a practical standpoint. Does saving those few CPU cycles make any sort of noticeable difference? From a general use/gaming standpoint. I'm not mixing or doing any sort of audio work with it.

Thoughts?

 

[corkyg]

I have not used a separate sound card for many years. I find that a pre-amplified signal routed to an external stereo sound system connected to good sp0eakers exceeds the audio qualities of any computer boxes.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

sound cards don't save cpu cycles afaik

 

[DigDog]

short answer: no.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I use an asus xonar d2x sound card and a pair of beyerdynamic dt990 pro 256ohm headphones and the sound quality is fantastic. On board sound doesn't offer the sonic range and clarity of a dedicated sound card like this one. When a person runs low quality headphones and/or speakers then the sound card will not make much of a difference.

 

[rchunter]

External usb dac for best quality sound. Or if you're mainly into gaming just hdmi audio out from your video card into a surround sound receiver.

 

[DigDog]

I use an asus xonar d2x sound card and a pair of beyerdynamic dt990 pro 256ohm headphones and the sound quality is fantastic. On board sound doesn't offer the sonic range and clarity of a dedicated sound card like this one. When a person runs low quality headphones and/or speakers then the sound card will not make much of a difference.

yeah but, is it even true?

because this explanation always annoys me. for high but-not-extreme quality audio you will want a standalone music system, not a PC, and either double-thick vinyl or at least a SACD as source.

Does your xonar come close to that? it doesn't. so let's stop calling your xonar a "superior solution" with "great soundstage" or all that other bullshit high enders love so much.

you are on a pc; you will be using some crap 128bit mp3 for 99% of your audio, your xonar doesn't do squat there.

when you use FLAC on the other 1%, what you have at best is difference, not quality. fire up a ALC1150 or even a 889 and they are easily comparable to any soundcard, at least in quality - they only miss the preamp, which some boards now include as well.

and finally we need to talk about reproduction. i've hear deutsche grammophon double pressings out of a $55k system, in its own purpose-built listening room, and while they sound great, they don't sound like a reference monitor, and a reference monitor sounds exactly like the music that was recorded.

this is because people and companies that manufacture hifi chose to color the sound, sometimes to a signature tone, sometimes out of personal preference. or they might color an amp to highlight the strengths of a cabinet.

all that talk about warmth is bullshit. if it sounds different than it sounds on a reference monitor, it sounds wrong. so your "higher quality" soundcard is playing out a sound which can only and ever be accurately described as "different", and since you paid for it, you assume it's better (and i hope you do, because all humans do this - if you don't, you need to get checked by a head doctor).

integrated audio is fine. i can hear the wooden flooring on EMC's Keith Jarret plays Mozart@320kb mp3. it's fine.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I always assumed I "had a good ear," and I learned to play some three instruments. To be an "audiophile," I'd think it might mean a willingness to spend more money to get the very best sound, and some of DigDog's remarks are thought-provoking.

But at this point, with all the other PCI-slot priorities I have, re-deploying my Audigy 2 ZS card doesn't seem like my own best option. I hear all the time how the onboard sound, ported through I/O-plate 3.5mm gold-plated phone-jacks, fall short. But if the speakers are good, I haven't noticed any glaring differences or shortcomings. I can compare the results from a Logitech 5.1 surround system against my ONKYO AVR and JBL Cinema-500 5.1 speaker set. If there are any, they are not profound.

I'm feeding my ONKYO via the HDMI link of my graphics card, also providing the video to my AVR-connected HDTV. And I'm always contemplating how to add sound options to this room and my PCs. In Media Center and with the right Add-in, you can switch between speaker systems and outputs on the fly. You can change the default sound output at the Windows level, without disabling unused options.

There IS a device you can buy which allows you to convert HDMI to 5.1 analog output with the usual 3.5mm speaker jacks:

http://www.ambery.com/2hddodtsdihd.html

and this would allow for use of a second HDMI output if one is already being used with an AVR. It would allow you to use those PC speaker sets alternative to the onboard sound, and it has some built-in amplification.

It's just another option short of cluttering your PCI/-e slots with another card. And it costs about as much as I've spent on top-end Creative Labs cards.

 

[Worthington]

Thanks for the input all.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I would suggest that the OP have a listen to several different solutions for himself so he can see the difference and then decide what is best for him. I will refrain from using rudimentary and abasing examples of the English language to perform a less than stellar rhetorical analysis of the topic at hand.

 

[renegade800x]

A discrete sound card will sound better than on-board in most cases. It has to do with cleaner signal path, audio grade capacitors, better amplification. It just sounds better, a fuller sound.
I have IEMs and hear the on board hissing starting at 40% volume.
While the ZXR destroys the on board at amplification being much much louder, I can dial the volume at 100% and it's still perfectly quiet.

100% true it depends on the speakers/headphones whether or not you will hear a difference.

Your X-Fi will sound better than 99% on board solutions. Definitely port it to the new computer.

 

[RampantAndroid]

yeah but, is it even true?

because this explanation always annoys me. for high but-not-extreme quality audio you will want a standalone music system, not a PC, and either double-thick vinyl or at least a SACD as source.

Does your xonar come close to that? it doesn't. so let's stop calling your xonar a "superior solution" with "great soundstage" or all that other bullshit high enders love so much.

you are on a pc; you will be using some crap 128bit mp3 for 99% of your audio, your xonar doesn't do squat there.

when you use FLAC on the other 1%, what you have at best is difference, not quality. fire up a ALC1150 or even a 889 and they are easily comparable to any soundcard, at least in quality - they only miss the preamp, which some boards now include as well.

and finally we need to talk about reproduction. i've hear deutsche grammophon double pressings out of a $55k system, in its own purpose-built listening room, and while they sound great, they don't sound like a reference monitor, and a reference monitor sounds exactly like the music that was recorded.

this is because people and companies that manufacture hifi chose to color the sound, sometimes to a signature tone, sometimes out of personal preference. or they might color an amp to highlight the strengths of a cabinet.

all that talk about warmth is bullshit. if it sounds different than it sounds on a reference monitor, it sounds wrong. so your "higher quality" soundcard is playing out a sound which can only and ever be accurately described as "different", and since you paid for it, you assume it's better (and i hope you do, because all humans do this - if you don't, you need to get checked by a head doctor).

integrated audio is fine. i can hear the wooden flooring on EMC's Keith Jarret plays Mozart@320kb mp3. it's fine.

...this post.

Wrong and right are in the eye of the beholder. Just using a pair of IEMs, there is a *WORLD* of difference between onboard and a Xonar, let alone the DAC I built. There are plenty of reference designs you can DIY as well. I have yet to come across integrated audio that doesn't have a lot of noise in it. They simply don't worry about the analog sections and the power filtering.

And of course, you know the source quality of what people are using. I'm still rolling my eyes.

A discrete sound card will sound better than on-board in most cases. It has to do with cleaner signal path, audio grade capacitors, better amplification. It just sounds better, a fuller sound.
I have IEMs and hear the on board hissing starting at 40% volume.
While the ZXR destroys the on board at amplification being much much louder, I can dial the volume at 100% and it's still perfectly quiet.

100% true it depends on the speakers/headphones whether or not you will hear a difference.

Your X-Fi will sound better than 99% on board solutions. Definitely port it to the new computer.

The only reason to not take the X-Fi is because it's an X-Fi (that is to say, it's creative.) If it works fine for you however, take it. I have never found onboard audio to be acceptable when it's outputting analog.

 

[Sabrewings]

The only reason I bought an add-in soundcard in the last decade was because the motherboard's onboard ALC888 codec died one day (system was about 6 years old). Rather than try to find a compatible motherboard, it was easier to pick up a soundcard. Funny thing is that my new PC's motherboard (EVGA Z97 Classified) has the exact same audio core as the card I bought for the PC it's replacing, just onboard.

 

[renegade800x]

The only reason I bought an add-in soundcard in the last decade was because the motherboard's onboard ALC888 codec died one day (system was about 6 years old). Rather than try to find a compatible motherboard, it was easier to pick up a soundcard. Funny thing is that my new PC's motherboard (EVGA Z97 Classified) has the exact same audio core as the card I bought for the PC it's replacing, just onboard.

When you made the switch from ALC888 to the add-in card did you hear a difference?

 

[RampantAndroid]

The only reason I bought an add-in soundcard in the last decade was because the motherboard's onboard ALC888 codec died one day (system was about 6 years old). Rather than try to find a compatible motherboard, it was easier to pick up a soundcard. Funny thing is that my new PC's motherboard (EVGA Z97 Classified) has the exact same audio core as the card I bought for the PC it's replacing, just onboard.

It may have the same chip, but that doesn't mean quality is the same. If you want to get an idea, go to some place like AMB.org - Ti Kan makes a bunch of DIY audio designs for amps, preamps and DACs. What you'll notice in most of them is that the power supplies are as big as the amps themselves. Bigger than the preamps they're powering. Serving up good, clean power is paramount when you're looking for clean audio. You can have the *best* DAC in the worlds, but if you're feeding it a terrible power source, the audio will sound like you've got a cheap DAC.

 

[renegade800x]

It may have the same chip, but that doesn't mean quality is the same. If you want to get an idea, go to some place like AMB.org - Ti Kan makes a bunch of DIY audio designs for amps, preamps and DACs. What you'll notice in most of them is that the power supplies are as big as the amps themselves. Bigger than the preamps they're powering. Serving up good, clean power is paramount when you're looking for clean audio. You can have the *best* DAC in the worlds, but if you're feeding it a terrible power source, the audio will sound like you've got a cheap DAC.

You Sir speak the truth. Even add-in cards have a battery of capacitors to clean the power section.. and whoever is serious about computer audio and invested in a pair of high end speakers / headphones needs to consider external DAC / Amps which have power supplies of their own.

 

[DigDog]

god, we really need to do the monster cable test here.

 

[RampantAndroid]

god, we really need to do the monster cable test here.

If you believe that saying onboard audio is junk is on par with saying you need $5,000 HDMI cables....you don't know much about audio.

Let me guess: a $20 pair of headphones is the same as a pair of HD600s?

Or how about a reference quality amp is the same as the $100 receiver you bought for your home theater (I mean, the reference amp might be only 100W per channel - your cheapy receiver is 150W PER CHANNEL!?)

Not all audio equipment is created equal. Plug in a pair of Westone 4s and I can tell you if they've bothered to shield their analog sections or clean up their power (or if their power is decent.)

 

[Puffnstuff]

Sound cards are a well argued peripheral and one that I will not be caught without. Onboard sound has never interested me with it's mediocre sound quality. I suppose that if my xonar should fail that I'd get the essence stx II to keep the asus sound quality in my system and fall back to the creative zxr as a last resort. When I listen to music I want to hear all of it from the deep bass to the highest highs all at once in complete harmony. I listen to symphonic metal and I want to hear all of the classical instruments right along with all of the metal instruments in concert with the soprano vocals in perfect clarity and my xonar d2x does that just fine. No onboard solution I've ever listened to can even begin to come close.

 

[maddogmcgee]

xonar essence stx here. Sounds better than onboard with my current set of headphones and will actually be able to power the headphones im eyeing off....no onboard audio would come close. Both parts together came to less than my GTX 970 and will last much longer. Now I only need to make my 970 shut up and I will be laughing.

Your right about the audio quality though....how many years/decades till spotify offers flac quality streaming?

 

[Puffnstuff]

Most of the people who say that the sound card doesn't matter are also the ones who are ripping music into itunes at the stock settings using headphones obtained at walmart.

 

[RampantAndroid]

xonar essence stx here. Sounds better than onboard with my current set of headphones and will actually be able to power the headphones im eyeing off....no onboard audio would come close. Both parts together came to less than my GTX 970 and will last much longer. Now I only need to make my 970 shut up and I will be laughing.

Your right about the audio quality though....how many years/decades till spotify offers flac quality streaming?

That, and 24bit recordings (which Windows of course makes....special.)

 

[DigDog]

gibberish barely resembling english

i'm wondering, if you would pass the monster cable test.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

I like my modified X-Fis, but am pretty happy at the office with an AudioQuest DragonFly v2.

 

[RampantAndroid]

i'm wondering, if you would pass the monster cable test.

Let me simplify it for you then: If you have a pair of $20 BEATs headphones - sure. Onboard audio sounds no better than a sound card (or external DAC+amp).

If you however over own either good quality speakers or headphones, then you very quickly realize that onboard audio sounds like garbage.

The onboard audio on my work machine (which for some reason has an ASUS motherboard for overclocking and a Sandy Bridge 2600) - well, when you move the mouse, you hear noise in the audio output. It simply means they're not filtering correctly.

And you'll be hard pressed to find a soundcard that will beat this:
http://www.amb.org/audio/gamma1.5/