Is there a new power in video cards arising ?

[Nemesis 1]

http://www.imgtec.com/News/Release/index.asp?NewsID=449

It looks promising for sure. Considering size and efficiency. 64cores should do well. On Discrete. Plus Fact Intel Apple Power VR ARM all coding the same.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Sounds promising. I will wait to see what kind of OEM wins they have (IOW, actual cards on the market).

What apps use OpenCL, versus the defacto standard CUDA though? That could be a fly in the ointment.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Havok in physics be a small one I would point to. Look at Big Picture. Maybe I getting to old not using reasoning. But Open cl has Apple / Intel / ATI/AMD/ and many others working on the standard. preparing apps. So It looks to be a rather good fit. Now I realize that the 16 core model is weak by desktop standards. But even tho the article didn't say it could scale beyond 16 cores . It didn't say it couldn't . SO 64 cores I would think might drop some jaws. Open CL has Way more backing than cuda. The real power houses are behind open Cl . If that doesn't ans your question nothing well. Snow should fall soon . We should see if there is a immedite impact . Shortly as to what open CL brings to table .

 

[BenSkywalker]

At 200MHz core frequency an SGX543MP4 (four cores) will deliver 133 million polygons per second and fill rates in excess of 4Gpixels/sec**. Higher frequencies or a larger number of cores each deliver more performance. At 400MHz core frequency an SGX543MP8 (eight cores) will deliver 532 million polygons per second and fill rates in excess of 16Gpixels/sec.

That may be pretty competitive against Intel's offerings, they should likely take note. It is of no threat whatsoever to ATi or nVidia, 4GPixels is NV30 level of performance(5800Ulta, not even 5900). Again, this could be very serious competition for Intel, but it would be in the territory of the sub $40 ATi or nVidia parts.

But Open cl has Apple / Intel / ATI/AMD/ and many others working on the standard.

nVidia has drivers available that support OpenCL atm through dev rel, that is about the only developer support available from the IHVs atm. Of course, we are talking about a spec that has failed to be finalized to date so it shouldn't be surprising that as of right now nothing official or shipping supports OpenCL at all in any way.

Really, high end Larrabee parts should likely take serious note of this part. Between this new part, the 9400GT, 4350 and Larrabee the sub $40 segment is likely to heat up fairly well this time next year.

 

[akugami]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR

A little background for the young'uns in case they don't know about PowerVR. I think we really need to see a working demo and a few benchies before we can get excited.

 

[Lonyo]

Didn't Intel license some PowerVR stuff for use in one of their IGPs?

 

[dguy6789]

I like PowerVR They did the Dreamcast graphics.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
I like PowerVR They did the Dreamcast graphics.

I like any good tech. Unlike Young skywalkers math choosen to show lowest perpormance figures heres the true potenticial.

16 core model= 1064 million pollygons 32gpixels. thats not bad on soc.

Now Size it up for netbook and notebook to 32 cores. It would still be best power efficiency
32core = 1.128 billion pologons 64 gpixels .

On discrete go 64 cores on low end

64 cores = 2.256 billion pologons 128gpixels

High end go 128 cores and still be more effficient than anything out there.

128 cores= 4.512 billion poloygons a second 265 gpixels.

Not that such products are announced . But the 16 core model power efficieny on handhelds and ION instant winner. If they scale beyound 16 cores look out.

Larrabee may Fail . But ya no what , NV new tech the 300 isn't a sure winner either. I pick intel engineers anyday over NV . Also software Intel all the way. NV has good product now . That means zero. 300 is new ball game new tech . You fanbois keep it up you could jinx it.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
Didn't Intel license some PowerVR stuff for use in one of their IGPs?

Yes. I believe you will find there tech. on IGP and Larrabee. They do textures units the sameway . It along time back when Power Vr and and the slide company LOL battled hard.

I sure Hope this tech scales . The more companies doing tile based rendering the better. If this thing scale it give all run for money.

 

[Idontcare]

I was going to ask what the power-consumption efficiency is like for this chip, but then I read the following:

maintains the highest performance per mW of any embedded graphics core, a key benefit of POWERVR SGX

But then there is no mention anywhere else of the actual power-consumption...so, just the usual marketing fluff then?

 

[SickBeast]

I would imagine that PowerVR's tech would be of enormous benefit to SLI/xfire.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Idontcare
I was going to ask what the power-consumption efficiency is like for this chip, but then I read the following:

maintains the highest performance per mW of any embedded graphics core, a key benefit of POWERVR SGX

But then there is no mention anywhere else of the actual power-consumption...so, just the usual marketing fluff then?

I just gave you guys starter link . Lots better info on chip . And Apple . and Intel /. But idontcare , I have found nothing thatgives what you ask . But Beings its made SOC I assume its not much . Power VR isn't in habit of hype.

Yes sick beast sli crossfire or hydra. Hydra should allow 64 chips. Or maybe like intel Power VR needs no trickery to scale. Don't no . But I look for hugh growth in software render gpu's. New players will jump in . Who knows maybe another upstart opertunity coming to hardware.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

At 200MHz core frequency an SGX543MP4 (four cores) will deliver 133 million polygons per second and fill rates in excess of 4Gpixels/sec**. Higher frequencies or a larger number of cores each deliver more performance. At 400MHz core frequency an SGX543MP8 (eight cores) will deliver 532 million polygons per second and fill rates in excess of 16Gpixels/sec.

That may be pretty competitive against Intel's offerings, they should likely take note. It is of no threat whatsoever to ATi or nVidia, 4GPixels is NV30 level of performance(5800Ulta, not even 5900). Again, this could be very serious competition for Intel, but it would be in the territory of the sub $40 ATi or nVidia parts.

But Open cl has Apple / Intel / ATI/AMD/ and many others working on the standard.

nVidia has drivers available that support OpenCL atm through dev rel, that is about the only developer support available from the IHVs atm. Of course, we are talking about a spec that has failed to be finalized to date so it shouldn't be surprising that as of right now nothing official or shipping supports OpenCL at all in any way.

Really, high end Larrabee parts should likely take serious note of this part. Between this new part, the 9400GT, 4350 and Larrabee the sub $40 segment is likely to heat up fairly well this time next year.

Opem Cl has been finalized. You know that . I can get proof here you know that. You also know ATI /Havak are ready with CL . I can prove that . Aren't you involved in those threads here.

So what exactly is your post about . MOD please!

 

[Nemesis 1]

This thread is about Power VR . Lets not Attack a company who for the most part has played a pretty clean game. Ben I don't know why you want to do a shintel/Informal debate here . But I don't . I won't. I see what they have done to XS forums . We don't need that . None here want that. WE like performance here . But not Extreme stupidity!

Were about tech. Tho we care more about the gaming aspects . Tech brings a promise of a future . That we desperately need . Or my childrens children have NO future.

SO BEN Keep the Fanbois stuff in ATI INTEL AMD NV threads. OK . There are NO POWER VR fanbois yet to battle . So kindly refrain from ruining thread.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Yes sick beast sli crossfire or hydra. Hydra should allow 64 chips. Or maybe like intel Power VR needs no trickery to scale. Don't no . But I look for hugh growth in software render gpu's. New players will jump in . Who knows maybe another upstart opertunity coming to hardware.

Maybe you haven't been reading about this stuff for long enough, but there has been talk many years ago about PowerVR doing this and that with their tile based rendering, talk of some insane GPU that would put NV out of business. None of it ever happened, and this falls under the "I'll believe it when I see it" category.

IMO PowerVR is the Duke Nukem Forever of the hardware industry.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Ya I follow . Maybe you missed it . This chip is real . The 16 core unit is nothing to laugh at. IFit scales to more cores this is a real threat to INTEL ATI NV . They lready have a MEGA order on the 16 unit chip to undisclosed buyer. Intel / Apple. Take your pick.

Apple seems to be real winner here as all are chasing after apple. Yet Apple is putting to gether its own design team LOL.

 

[Rifter]

ill believe it when i see it, next thing yo know Glide is going to make a huge comeback and S3 will be back in action.

 

[SickBeast]

PowerVR was supposed to have a 'GeForce killer' type of GPU when the Dreamcast was released. They are the masters of vapourware; it's their only product when it comes to the PC. They might as well transform into a marketing company and sell hot air.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Yes sick beast sli crossfire or hydra. Hydra should allow 64 chips. Or maybe like intel Power VR needs no trickery to scale. Don't no . But I look for hugh growth in software render gpu's. New players will jump in . Who knows maybe another upstart opertunity coming to hardware.

Maybe you haven't been reading about this stuff for long enough, but there has been talk many years ago about PowerVR doing this and that with their tile based rendering, talk of some insane GPU that would put NV out of business. None of it ever happened, and this falls under the "I'll believe it when I see it" category.

IMO PowerVR is the Duke Nukem Forever of the hardware industry.

PowerVR has a bit of a mixed history. Their chips were sold as "Kyro" video cards.

Tom's Hardware benchmarking some video cards in 1998: link. You'll notice that PowerVR has horrible performance when compared with high quality video cards.

PowerVR render quality: link

Although Turok uses the the dedicated engine, the PowerVR doesn't produce a very nice picture. Compared to the reference picture the sky and clouds aren't transparent at all, looks as if the PowerVR produces some really heavy weather. The waterfall isn't fultered very well and there seems to be a Z-information problem with the rock on the left. All in all is Turok playable, doesn't look too bad, but most other cards are offering a better image quality under Turok.

On the other hand, Kyro II had fairly good performance when compared to cards in the same price rage: link

Tom's Hardware shows the Kyro II in direct competition with the GeForce 2 GTS: link


The only thing that makes me doubt the validity of PowerVR's product is how PowerVR was able to perform well in the past. ATI and Nvidia were getting good performance through brute force; process a ton of a crap then show only a small fraction of it. PowerVR's performance came through efficient coding. If we're talking about a standard that everyone is following, such as OpenCL, PowerVR's old tricks no longer apply and we're left looking at raw processing power which is exactly what ATI and Nvidia had and still have.

Apple seems to be real winner here as all are chasing after apple. Yet Apple is putting to gether its own design team LOL.

I wouldn't expect anything magical from Apple at this time either. All of their products for less than $3000 use laptop parts such as the GeForce 9400M video card. If there's one thing Apple has shown us in the past 20 years, it's that they really don't give a shit about performance.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
PowerVR was supposed to have a 'GeForce killer' type of GPU when the Dreamcast was released. They are the masters of vapourware; it's their only product when it comes to the PC. They might as well transform into a marketing company and sell hot air.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Bitboys? The Kyro product I remember well, and I thought Intel bought that up at some point in the past decade. (meaning Intel Capital venture funded someone a good deal of money) Could be figment of my imagination though.

 

[BenSkywalker]

The more companies doing tile based rendering the better.

Please explain exactly how. Given the fact that current deferred rendering used in rasterization has eliminated the overwhelming majority of overdraw and given that you need multiple GBs for a moderately competitive in geometric throughput I'd love to hear you explain in detail why that is. We have at least one PowerVR engineer registered on these forums(Kristoff, was one of the founding members of B3D back in the day), we have had rounds of PVR technology discussions in the past, why don't you explain what engineers for the company never could, and could never ship- how is a tile based renderer going to compete with a rasterizer under heavy geometry loads?

Opem Cl has been finalized.

The spec was 'finalized' in November, then it was 'finalized' in Feb, waiting for a real final spec

SO BEN Keep the Fanbois stuff in ATI INTEL AMD NV threads. OK . There are NO POWER VR fanbois yet to battle . So kindly refrain from ruining thread

Then you should change your thread title to PowerVR love in, noone can post that doesn't think they are the best without reason. As reality currently stands, you made the question about them being a new power in the video card market. By the criteria of your post title we MUST compare them to the other companies in said market if you want a discussion relating to the topic YOU started. This is just going by what you typed. If you want a thread for delusional dreamers getting psyched for flat out stupid tech without anyone contradicting them or discussing reality then you should name it as such

The Kyro product I remember well, and I thought Intel bought that up at some point in the past decade. (meaning Intel Capital venture funded someone a good deal of money) Could be figment of my imagination though.

I actually reviewed the KyroII, it wasn't a bad part but it was much like 3dfx parts in the end days, lacking some core functionality that crippled it in newer games and it fell behind the competition very quickly(as in, games that came out a year after its release ran extremely poorly compared to its rasterizer counterparts). Wasn't much they could have done, TBR as they do it requires significantly more RAM then comparable IMRs when dealing with heavy geometry loads. The chip approach saves some money, but board level it just doesn't translate nearly as well.