Is there a connection between Ritalin and the recent school shootings?

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
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I was sitting next to a chiropractor on a plane recently.

Somehow the topic of ADHD and the use of Ritalin came up. He's vehemently opposed to it's use and lectures parents and school groups about it.

According to him, all of those involved in recent school shootings were or had been on Ritalin.

This was news to me.

Anyone else aware of this association?
 

pulse8

Lifer
May 3, 2000
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From what I recall, one or both of the Columbine guys was on Ritalin at one point.

Edit: And if I'm ever sitting next to you on a plane, don't talk to me. :p
 

Lvis

Golden Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Ritalin is certainly prescribed too much, but for the kids that need it, it can work wonders. My son takes adderall, much the same as ritalin. It makes a huge impact on his life. (mine too)

My experience had been that this stuff needs to be administered by mental health professionals, rather than a gp.

And it's always good to remember that chiroprators, aren't real doctors.... as much as they would like us to think they are.

 

PistachioByAzul

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Not so much Ritalin directly, as the whole societal outlook towards "mental illness" and how it should be treated, much less understanding what even produces it.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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Ritalin is just a crutch to an underlying problem that is better corrected in more concrete and behavioral ways.

I have the same feelings on Prozac and other various "psychological" drugs.
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
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They probably went off ritalin that day. :Q

Its over-prescribed but is a godsend for some kids, even adults. I'll probably never go off of it due to ADD.
 

Slacker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I still dont understand how ritalin is supposed to help these people, my nephew was on it when I was a teenager and I helped my self to it whenever I wanted, for those who dont know, ritalin is basically crystal-meth, crank, SPEED how does taking speed help hyperactive kids? I heard that somehow it has an opposite effect on them than it does on other/older people but I dont see how, and what about a messed up kid who is not hyper who gets misdiagnosed? then you have a messed up kid on speed? never understood the whole ritalin thing :confused:
 

Slacker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Ritalin is derived from the same family as cocaine <<== 'bout halfway down the page.



<a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v286n8/ffull/jmn0822-1.html">Pay Attention: Ritalin Acts Much Like Cocaine
</a>



<a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.citizen.com/healthbeat/news2002/May/hb_0520a.htm">Experts say kids using Ritalin to get high, make money
</a>
 

vi edit

Elite Member
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Oct 28, 1999
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Originally posted by: Slacker
I still dont understand how ritalin is supposed to help these people, my nephew was on it when I was a teenager and I helped my self to it whenever I wanted, for those who dont know, ritalin is basically crystal-meth, crank, SPEED how does taking speed help hyperactive kids? I heard that somehow it has an opposite effect on them than it does on other/older people but I dont see how, and what about a messed up kid who is not hyper who gets misdiagnosed? then you have a messed up kid on speed? never understood the whole ritalin thing :confused:

General theory on ritalin -

Your body can't absorb norepinephrine(I think...can't remember) properly and you get all hyper because of it being in your bloodstream. Ritalin is basically a super huge dose of this drug. It more or less, causes your body to overdose on norepinephrine and makes it absorb the drug since there is such high levels of it.

Ritalin itself is ACTUALLY a stimulant, not a depressant as many would think.

 

ShadowDJ

Senior member
Mar 6, 2002
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Ritalin scares me personally. I have A friend on ritalin, and his behavior is completely random. He has mood swings and becomes completely irate at the smallest of things. I'm very glad day to day that he's a small person, or else he would seriously hurt someone. But I do see how it can be beneficial, because the days that he forgot his medication he laughed uncontrollaby, etc. All of the people I know on ritalin have very erratic behavior. I'm wary myself of things that change the architecture of you brain, esp. long term affects because they are all my age, 14. One important factor is dosage, since I know that can change behavior by HUGE factors. It really does scare me, though.
 

Slacker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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yep, norepinephrine.......


norepinephrine
Endocrinology
? a catecholamine neurotransmitter of the post-ganglionic sympathetic branch of the autonomic nervous system; also produced in small amounts as a hormone in the adrenal medulla. Also, noradrenaline.
 

ShadowDJ

Senior member
Mar 6, 2002
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Originally posted by: EngineNr9
Not so much Ritalin directly, as the whole societal outlook towards "mental illness" and how it should be treated, much less understanding what even produces it.

I agree and I think that medical science has a long way to go in perfecting and understand treatments. It's shocking how little we really know about our own minds.
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,653
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Originally posted by: vi_edit
Originally posted by: Slacker I still dont understand how ritalin is supposed to help these people, my nephew was on it when I was a teenager and I helped my self to it whenever I wanted, for those who dont know, ritalin is basically crystal-meth, crank, SPEED how does taking speed help hyperactive kids? I heard that somehow it has an opposite effect on them than it does on other/older people but I dont see how, and what about a messed up kid who is not hyper who gets misdiagnosed? then you have a messed up kid on speed? never understood the whole ritalin thing :confused:
General theory on ritalin - Your body can't absorb norepinephrine(I think...can't remember) properly and you get all hyper because of it being in your bloodstream. Ritalin is basically a super huge dose of this drug. It more or less, causes your body to overdose on norepinephrine and makes it absorb the drug since there is such high levels of it. Ritalin itself is ACTUALLY a stimulant, not a depressant as many would think.

Ritalin is interesting. I was pretty brain dead (basically clinical depression since puberty) before I was prescribed it. But when taking it, it has a caffeine sort of affect, except allows me to concentrate better and think deeper (not that this is exhibited here :p). I've never experienced depression since taking it and its been about 10 years, with a very small dosage as well.

Without it I'd still be clinically depressed (I've tried going off of it) due to a chemical imbalance or something.

So I say screw the critics who say it should always be avoided.
 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
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Alot of Ritalin perscribed ADHD kids are misdiagnosed OR underdiagnosed... What I mean is ALOT of ADHD kids are Bi-Polar or both. so ritlin helps the ADHD but does absolutely does Nada for the Bi-Polar! Bi-Polar Kids are very dangerous when in a Manic state that is why alot of school shooting kids think they are invinceble (I am a bad spellar :p) Manic or Mania can make a Kid do alot of bad things and they cannot control it... they react... and do not think before they say or do something... America's Doctors need to wake up and smell the coffee! there is sooo much apathy from head shrinkers and general doctors that think they know ADHD in two seconds and prescribe ritilin and forget about them thinking they did the right thing.

Ritalin scares me personally. I have A friend on ritalin, and his behavior is completely random. He has mood swings and becomes completely irate at the smallest of things. I'm very glad day to day that he's a small person, or else he would seriously hurt someone. But I do see how it can be beneficial, because the days that he forgot his medication he laughed uncontrollaby, etc. All of the people I know on ritalin have very erratic behavior. I'm wary myself of things that change the architecture of you brain, esp. long term affects because they are all my age, 14. One important factor is dosage, since I know that can change behavior by HUGE factors. It really does scare me, though.

Bi-Polar... and also a bad meds taker... any meds not taken regularly can F*&% you up.

So what you are saying about ritalin is a "red herring" and that is all
 

daclayman

Golden Member
Sep 27, 2000
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I experimented ((ab(used) with vitamin R in my early twenties. The white (15mg???) pills were OK to snort and achieve the 'enhanced condition'. The orange (30mg??) were cakey and hard to grind but very promising. I went loo-loo one night on a combo of the orange and some white; I stared at my house in the middle of the street at 3am. All the while, I knew I was doing this. The combination of an excess of beer probably watered down my inhibitions so that I might stand out there and stare and consider home improvements, which is what i did. I tried abusing this drug sober and it was quite introvertive(<---- word?) and certainly did not cause me to want to buy a weapon and slaughter. Vitamin R is not a drug which directly controls ADD; I think it just slows some processes. I think it's overkill for its intended purpose. Also, by using a better inert caking for the pills, choppin-n-snortin wouldn't be as fun - too much work.

 

Alex

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 1999
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Originally posted by: Slacker
Ritalin is derived from the same family as cocaine <<== 'bout halfway down the page.



<a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v286n8/ffull/jmn0822-1.html">Pay Attention: Ritalin Acts Much Like Cocaine
</a>



<a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.citizen.com/healthbeat/news2002/May/hb_0520a.htm">Experts say kids using Ritalin to get high, make money
</a>

:Q
 

Yeeny

Lifer
Feb 2, 2000
10,848
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Thats just another blanket statement. What about the millions of kids that take it that never shoot or hurt anyone, and go on to be productive adults?
 

Geekbabe

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Oct 16, 1999
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www.theshoppinqueen.com
Well I'm an adult ADD/ ADHD survior,I've never been violent towards anyone... lol and I sure don't take advice on the condition of my brain chemicals from a chiropracter :)
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
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Originally posted by: GirlFriday
Thats just another blanket statement. What about the millions of kids that take it that never shoot or hurt anyone, and go on to be productive adults?

Do we seriously have millions of kids taking this stuff? :Q

This is a serious question. Humanity has been civilized for several thousand years, and we've been surviving until now without the stuff, so I wonder if ADD/ADHD (or whatever combination of letters) is a new epidemic, or if it's been with us all this time and we didn't know it, or if it's all made up (or just overhyped) so that drug companies can sell more drugs to deal with it.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
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I'd like to thank all the critics/abusers of ritalin, my 9 year old needs it & it takes a frigging act of congress to get an RX nowdays.

Her laundry list of learning disabilities: Classic dyslexia, inattentive disorder, processing speed impairment (need to ritalin to overclock her), etc... It only took about $3K to diagnose what's pretty damn simple to see.

At least there are chiropractors who run around blaming all the world's evils on ritalin.

:(
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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Here ya go guys.

Ritalin, and Adderall, and Concerta etc are either amphetamine or ampthetamine like drugs. First lets define what ADD/ADHD does in everyday terms. For the technically picky I am not going to quote DSM-IV, because I am not. I have some problems with that reference for my own picky reasons. Anyway, the basic theory goes somethng like this. There is a portion of the brain that acts as a filter to the outside world. It's primary function is to allow you to focus on one thing instead of being overwhelmed by all the things going on at once

Example:

"Normal" person in a room at a party can talk to someone without much difficulty (assuming less than 10 zillion dB of music).

The ADD/ADHD in the same room has difficulty doing this. Why? because someone in the corner someone is talking. And someone else. And someone else, and the neighbors dog is barking and the music IS too loud, and someone coughed,and....


In the second case, ALL of what is going on registers and cant be "turned down" The mind is assaulted equally by every distraction. This is bad. What Ritalin etc. does is stimulate that center, in essence turning it up. That allows the individual to focus on a particular person or task.

So what is wrong with Ritalin? basically nothing. The problem seen is when someone brings in a kid to an physician and TELLS them their kid has ADD because they are not behaving. Sometimes true, but too often what is really going on is poor parenting skills. Perhaps the TV is getting boring and the little tyke wants some of the parents attention. Must be ADD because that "babysitter" is not working now and the child wants (gasp) the attention of the parent. Sometimes it is age appropriate behavior, normal low attention span in a 6 year old compared to older children or an adult. Enough examples for now. Historically, the doc gives a "trial" of the medication, and low and behold it works! So the child has "it". Onto the Ritalin. The problem with this "scientific" method is that it is not. Almost everyone can focus better on this stuff. So what happened was a backlash against these drugs because of it. That is why generally, it is much harder to get onto it these days.

So is Ritalin good or bad?

Yes.

It is not the drug, but the patient who determines that. If the childs basic socal interaction at home is the TV, then what is needed are parents with skilz (that how we spell it these days?) and medication is not the solution.

If you have the condition, then it is a good thing. Imagine being a child at school. "Johnny what is the answer to the question?" Johnny is saying WTF in his own way, because the bird outside the window is building a nest and the clock is ticking to loud and it is too hot inside, and he would rather be playing outside, and two kids are passing notes... too much information to process. So he missed something, namely the lesson. Now Johnny is bad. At least in his own eyes. Stupid, worthless eventually. Kids pick on him, he is branded a "problem" Parents and teachers have meetings. He is not stupid, just distracted. He KNOWS they are talking about him. His ego goes in the dumpster, and all the negative social behaviors start. Well, since Johnny had this at birth, he probably came to school with some. Now he gets medication. It works. For the first time something good happens to him. People react better to him and with good guidance and support, he gets back on track.

Now who among you wants to throw Johnny back into misery, besides the obligatory smart-asses? Messing with brain chemistry? You bet! For the better. Did we survive without medication for millenia? Yep. Without insulin or antibiotics too. Cure for a bullet wound in the leg during the Civil War? Amputation. Why? because you WERE going to get gangrene. So off with it. Oh the pain killer/anesthetic was whiskey. Ether was down the road a bit. Oh but that cripples. Leaves it impossible to be "normal" Guess what ADD can do that too, but in a way you do not see, in physical terms.

Do we have it solved now, at least a working solution? Not entirely. Still is the potential for misdiagnosis. Recently it was found that a large number of children being treated for ADD who had their tonsils and adenoids removed were cured of ADD! I mean a LOT of kids. Why? because they never had it. Turns out that the problem was obstructive sleep apnea. Some of these tissues get swollen to the point where they block breathing, especially at night when the structures in the throat relax. These kids are really chronic victims of sleep deprivation. When they get good rest, they are "cured". That's how medicine goes though.

 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
I was sitting next to a chiropractor on a plane recently.

Somehow the topic of ADHD and the use of Ritalin came up. He's vehemently opposed to it's use and lectures parents and school groups about it.

According to him, all of those involved in recent school shootings were or had been on Ritalin.

This was news to me.

Anyone else aware of this association?

Uh HUH--- You took advice from someone too stupid for medical school and is the worst kind of quack. I bet you shop at used car lots too.

Of course a Quackopractic is gonna say ritialin, and all drugs are bad, he can cure all their aliments with unproven snake oils he sells and spinal "manpulation". Most isurances won't cover these quacks and if so only give you limited visits since thier is nothing they provide which conforms to any scientific scrutiny.