Is their still widespread workplace gender discrimination?

[DCal430]

I think their is, however I was talking to conservative relative about this issue, and he claims that women have already achieved equal rights in the workplace, that no major company engages in gender discrimination, and the reason women make less than men on average is because of the women them self.

What is ATPN thoughts on this.

 

[BoomerD]

Yes there is. Only a fool would believe otherwise. Same with racial discrimination...it still exists, it's just hidden better.

 

[Zebo]

I have not worked a professional job in 10 years (hamdillah) but when I left women and men in same position made identical money. Men was mostly management so that is where it was at if anything. I believe Women make less than men because they take breaks (babies) and are in positions which pay less such as HR/secretary pools vs management.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Yes there is. Only a fool would believe otherwise. Same with racial discrimination...it still exists, it's just hidden better.

Therein lays the rub. Most companies define success (financially, ethically, morally) as any behavior which can not be proven to be against the law. Or, two wrongs make a right.

 

[nageov3t]

in the past 15-ish years that I've been in the work force, I don't recall ever being in a place where I felt like females were being denied promotions or earning less than their male counterparts for the same positions (in fact, I've had more female bosses than male bosses

 

[cybrsage]

I have yet to see my company hire someone who is neither a male nor a female. I think they discriminate against people who are neither one.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

I used to work for a computer repair place in Georgia and the owner would not let me or my brother go out on certain service calls knowing full well that there were some clients that simply were not going to have "non-whites" in their home working on their computers.

Just goes to show that even if the employer does not discriminate his client base very well may. I totally understand him acting him in the business's best interest.

 

[nehalem256]

To believe that companies will discriminate against women by paying 3/4 (or in fact significantly less since many jobs (government, union) would obviously prevent this), but yet still hire men is insane.

And in fact, according to this article from the NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/14/us/14iht-letter14.html

"And a study shows that in most U.S. cities, single, childless women under 30 are making an average of 8 percent more money than their male counterparts, with Atlanta and Miami in the lead at 20 percent."

So, does this suggest that men in there 20s are being discriminated against? Or is that young women are making choices that cause them to make more money that men?

 

[NetGuySC]

I have seen gender discrimination first hand. When I was younger I worked in a factory. Any newly hired males would have to start in the most undersireable position. This position was labor intensive and also an area where you would easily get burned. I worked in this factory for fifteen years and never seen a newly hired female start in that position, mostly the females would start in a much less demanding position. The newly hired females would start in a position that would only be obtainable to the newly hired male after he was employed for 1 to 2 years, and worked his way up to that female position.

 

[Anarchist420]

To believe that companies will discriminate against women by paying 3/4 (or in fact significantly less since many jobs (government, union) would obviously prevent this), but yet still hire men is insane.

Exactly Never understood why they would hire men if they paid women less.

 

[cybrsage]

The issue is that men will not take a job if the company does not pay them what they feel they are worth - most men negotiate for a higher salary. Women will take the job at whatever pay they are offered, even if it is below what they feel they are worth - most women do not negotiate. So basically, companies offer less because they know women will accept less, and women accept less because they expect to be paid less.

 

[Doppel]

Widespread, yes, severe absolutely not, at least not widespread severe. Where I work (large company) I don't get any impression women are viewed as less than men and I bet their incomes are similar too.

The primary reason women make less than men these days is because they just don't work for as long or as much. A great many still take time off for their kids, for example, and just don't work toward their career with the same level of motivation, on the whole. And this is perfectly fine, as kids are better than a few extra thousand bucks.

On the other hand it does appear to be that men make more than women in the exact same position. I think it's less significant than them simply not holding the same positions, though.

 

[shortylickens]

At Tektronix they go out of their way to give women a boost, so yes, discrimination is still around. it just works differently.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

I have seen gender discrimination first hand. When I was younger I worked in a factory. Any newly hired males would have to start in the most undersireable position. This position was labor intensive and also an area where you would easily get burned. I worked in this factory for fifteen years and never seen a newly hired female start in that position, mostly the females would start in a much less demanding position. The newly hired females would start in a position that would only be obtainable to the newly hired male after he was employed for 1 to 2 years, and worked his way up to that female position.

Seen this happen a lot in work environments which are labor intensive. In fact I had a friend who worked as a forest firefighter and he would always complain to me when a female was brought on board because to him that meant she would not physically pull her weight on his team and he or some other poor schlub would be forced to pick up the slack. Mind you this guy was pretty liberal (we got into several heated debates) but when it came to women working in his field where you have to be ready to exert a lot of physical effort he would take a pretty hard line "conservative" stance, as in he did not buy into the "everyone is equal all the way around in the work place" line of BS reasoning.

 

[nageov3t]

Burger King of all places was bad about that... at least in the franchise that I worked at in high school.

females were pretty much immediately put into the cushy jobs of manning the registers/drive-through while guys would be stuck in back at the friers/grill stations/etc

 

[JS80]

Women make less because they are less productive. As a whole.

 

[shortylickens]

Burger King of all places was bad about that... at least in the franchise that I worked at in high school.

females were pretty much immediately put into the cushy jobs of manning the registers/drive-through while guys would be stuck in back at the friers/grill stations/etc

Thats not for their benefit. As a rule most customers prefer to deal with pretty ladies.

 

[nehalem256]

Thats not for their benefit. As a rule most customers prefer to deal with pretty ladies.

Somehow I think liberals would have fit if companies were giving men choice positions instead of women with the excuse "it was better for the bottom line"

 

[FoBoT]

i do think so, misogyny is rampant, so i think that translates over to employment and almost all parts of society/life

 

[nageov3t]

Thats not for their benefit. As a rule most customers prefer to deal with pretty ladies.

personally, I think the manager was just really pervy and liked looking at the female employees through his one-way mirror that looked out over the cashier area.

 

[BoomerD]

BTW, I didn't mention this last night, but...

 

[Zebo]

Counts for what? Maybe if you're doing computer inputs but humans have amazing ability to generalize. Fro exaple u kan raed this. A computer cant.

 

[Iron Wolf]

Women make less because they are less productive. As a whole.

This. They generally don't take their jobs as seriously as men do, and are more focused on their social lives than anything else. Plus, they make lousy managers.

I think most of the perceived income disparity is simply because women still tend to be secretaries, nurses, teachers, and paralegals, rather than managers, doctors, principals, or lawyers.

Look at any school of math and science. Predominantly men. There have been concerted pushes to recruit women into these fields, but they just aren't interested. I work as a scientist, in a place with roughly the same number of men as women, but with only a couple of exceptions, the women do not have college degrees and are only able to work as secretaries or technicians under the supervision of the scientists.

The thing with saying women are paid less than men ignores seniority, skill, job function, productivity, etc. I suppose you could create a society where everybody is paid exactly the same, but as in Communist Russia, employee morale and incentive to work and overall productivity plummets.

 

[shortylickens]

Somehow I think liberals would have fit if companies were giving men choice positions instead of women with the excuse "it was better for the bottom line"

That is 100 percent correct.
But its life.

 

[nehalem256]

So if a woman is screwed over we need to have a presidential summit, but if a man is screwed over well tough for them :/

Why would any man support liberalism?