Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: superstition
then you will never be happy
my mother is actually dying .. probably this week .. no amount of material anything will make me happy
You're the one who tried to bring materialism into this, not me.
so YOU *define* it
i gave an example - from my own life today
- i am sorry she is dying .. but it does not change me .. she is 83, she had a very good life .. and i realize that ALL prognosis is terminal .. i was even privileged to care for her for nearly a decade after she had an illness that destroyed much of her executive functions .. and she became my friend, and we said good-bye - not only as a mother and son, but as friends who really know each other and appreciate each other .. it was touching for both of us and a sadness that we are forever parting here .. i will never see her again most likely [we are going to different places, i think]
yet it is sadness .. and as a new chapter in my life opens, i realize that i am temporarily sad and that my nature is "happiness" despite circumstance because despite the overwhelming odds that i perceive against us .. i still have hope .. and a purpose in accordance with will
so you have a personal experience from me that says "happiness" or sadness comes from within
How is your experience with happiness so different than mine?
you are a cold and unfeeling ass, btw
-i doubt you will ever be happy although i hope you find it
Well there are "gangs" galore. Civil rights gangs, equal rights gangs, literacy gangs - all self interested by nature. All have causes they feel worth pursuing after all.
and they are a *curse* on Society
--especially Organized Religion .. a hateful tradition of self-interest
In you opinion of course. I could say the same thing about others, but I don't despise black or gays or Republicans or Democrats, or teachers or teens, or the elderly or whomever to make a blanket comment. I've worked in third world countries with devoutly religious people in horrible conditions, and if they represent a hateful tradition of self-interest I want to see more of it. I don't think MLK was wrong. It didn't occur to me to throw up a litmus test to see if I could accept his acts because of his associations. It didn't occur to me to throw out his contributions because of his imperfections. I was raised to believe that if someone does a kindness, then it's a good act. If someone risks his life for another I ought to ask if he is gay or religious or black or white before I consider the act as "good"? I don't ask if someone is liberal or conservative or Catholic or Atheist to predetermine their "selfishness" of action. Never occured to me that they have to belong or not belong to a particular group to be able to do a good thing at random. I may or may not approve of some aspects of their lives, and I certainly don't have to embrace the totality of their being. It's not all or nothing. Well, that's how I've lived and it's worked for me. I've decided to eschew bitterness and hatred of people some might like to define as bitter and hateful and become what they despise. I can like people whom have traits I don't approve of. I can consider a man who becomes a billionaire a failure, and a poor man a success based not on their wallet, but how they take care of their own. How they act. What they love. I'm free. Try it.
You don't apparently understand what i am saying
Self interest is *bad* .. at the EXPENSE of OTHER self-interest
Gangs are ultimately BAD for society .. if society was not defective there would be no need to gather groups for self-protection; when these groups learn how to scam the system, then they take advantage of it and hurt other groups
it is self-perpetuating
i am an expert in gang behavior and applying it on a global scale
I'm an expert in gangs as well from the practical side. I grew up in inner city philly, where one step on the wrong side of the street gets you shot. I have a carved scar on my right hand because of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I understand you don't like religion. You are entitled to your opinion. I won't argue that there are times when it has been used for terrible purposes. In this country in these times those whom I personally know who sacrifice for their religion have done so in a way that costs them personally but benefits others in a material sense. As I say I've worked with others in lousy places to rebuild communities etc. and I have respect for those I met.
Why? A few reasons. Some just feel it's what should be done. Another found a passage that I have here
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
The bottom line is that they took it to mean that it is their obligation to do what they did. Now does that mean they are obliged to approve of anything? No, but it does mean they cannot harm another because of they way that person happens to be.
Perhaps I meet exceptional people. I know of another case parents would have nothing to do with their daughter who became ill because it was "God's punishment" for marrying someone not of the same faith. Why have that attitude? I can't understand it at all. Yet it happens.
My conclusion is that neither religion nor lack or it or anything else is responsible for hate. Rather people will find a justification to harm another whether it's religion or politics or whatever.
That's why I'm not so much interested in what a person says they are nearly as much as how they act.
I can define love not as helping those you approve of, but helping those in need that you don't like. If the need is elevated above the people involved, then that is a good act.