• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Is the USA responsible for this mess?

Well, perhaps not solely responsible, but can we at least agree that the economic mess started in the USA?

Well, It looks like Obama took responsibility for just that at the G20 summit:


At the G-20 in London, world leaders tried their hand at global governance. The minutes of their final, decisive session reveal how hard it is to reach a worldwide consensus. But the group did break new ground: US President Barack Obama admitted his country was responsible for the current crisis.

Something was missing and Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi wasn't about to accept it. For the past four hours, the heads of state and government of the world's leading countries had squabbled, made amends and reached agreements. They could now go home.

But there was a strange silence during this final phase, the silence of one man. Barack Obama, the president of the United States of America, the most important man at the G-20 summit in London, had remained silent for some time now.

Berlusconi now spoke to him directly: "I would like to extend my congratulations to Barack Obama," he said, adding that the economic crisis had begun in the US. "Now he has to address it," he said and looked towards Obama. "We wish him all the best for the citizens of the US and the entire world."

Then everyone turned to the American president. The 18 men and two women were sitting in the drab ExCel Conference Centre, where red bouquets that resembled flower boxes had been placed on the tables. The world's top politicians were waiting for a closing statement.

"It is gratifying to see that good work has been done here," Obama began. "Ten, 20, 30 years ago, it was not a matter of course that countries which were traditionally enemies solved problems together. After the Great Depression, a similar group did not convene until 1944. Also in 1982, following the Mexico Crisis, it took seven years before the problems were tackled together." Now he spoke with urgency: "It is important that we do not sell short the results of this summit. The press would like us to have conflicts. Instead we have attained great achievements. And it is important that we exude confidence."

He then lowered his voice: "It is true, as my Italian friend has said, that the crisis began in the US. I take responsibility, even if I wasn't even president at the time." And he underscored how important it is for him "that we now genuinely make progress. Thank you." Applause.


The others couldn't believe their ears. Was that really a confession of guilt from the US? Was it a translation error, or at least an inaccuracy? Afterwards, this sentence fueled long discussions among the members of the German delegation. German Chancellor Angela Merkel was so impressed by Obama's statement that she rushed to tell her finance minister, Peer Steinbrück. Japanese Prime Minister Taro Aso reacted immediately: The proposal to hold the next summit not in Japan, but rather in the US, is something that he no longer rejects, he says, "now that the US has shouldered responsibility."

Obama's confession may go down in world history as one of the greatest statements ever made. The US president is accepting responsibility for the beginning of one of the worst economic crises of the last century. By doing so, he has admitted that one of the excesses of the American way of life -- the insatiable craving for huge profits -- has brought the world to the brink of disaster. The others may have played their part, but the origins lie in the US. The fact that Obama has now admitted this sends a strong signal of hope to the world, perhaps the strongest to emerge from the G-20 summit in London last Wednesday and Thursday. Such an admission could begin to pave the way towards rectifying the situation.


Article continued here.


So, what the message here? Profits = bad? Or Greed = bad?

I must say I straddle the fence between the two sides (France+Germany vs. Anglo-Saxon). I believe in fiscal discipline and debt reduction but also free markets and free trade where the "system" is not choked by regulation but rather allows to breathe and progress to the financial benefit of many. So, I am personally not taking sides yet. But I believe the USA could regulate more and of course MUST quit deficit spending to unending federal debt.

 
The US brought the keg. It didn't make everybody else drink from it. Yeah, it started a good party, but as with life, you have only yourself to blame when the hangover kicks in the next day and you're puking your guts out. You don't blame the guy who brought the free beer.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
The US brought the keg. It didn't make everybody else drink from it. Yeah, it started a good party, but as with life, you have only yourself to blame when the hangover kicks in the next day and you're puking your guts out. You don't blame the guy who brought the free beer.

One of the best analogies I've ever read on ATPN. This applies to more than just the thread topic too.
 
Originally posted by: Atreus21
Clueless.

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Hate America First.

It's great that you both signed your posts, but in your rush to join the thread, it seems you forgot to add any content. Perhaps you were both going to point out that one of America's big problems is the brain-dead jingoists who are too blind to recognize America's imperfections. They loudly criticize everyone else, but are in denial at home. In a very real way, they are one of America's worst enemies, the forces of complacency and inertia. They destroy America from within by obstructing those who want to improve her.


Re. the OP, of course America bears much of the responsibility for the world's mess. We are, after all, the single most influential player. Is it solely our responsibility? Of course not, there's plenty of blame to spread around. If we want to fix it, however, we need to lead by example and accept accountability for our role in it. I think Obama did a good job of striking that balance.
 
I think he's playing the scapegoat role a little too heavily, but I don't think it's a huge deal to take the fall even when it's not solely our fault. It's good to see some humility and ownership (even if it is too much) from a politician, however it plays into the fingerpointing / witch hunt game which I'm not a fan of. He is right that greed brought us here, but greed is far from an American-only trait, we just have the means to really capitalize off of it.
 
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: Atreus21
Clueless.

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Hate America First.

It's great that you both signed your posts, but in your rush to join the thread, it seems you forgot to add any content. Perhaps you were both going to point out that one of America's big problems is the brain-dead jingoists who are too blind to recognize America's imperfections. They loudly criticize everyone else, but are in denial at home. In a very real way, they are one of America's worst enemies, the forces of complacency and inertia. They destroy America from within by obstructing those who want to improve her.


Re. the OP, of course America bears much of the responsibility for the world's mess. We are, after all, the single most influential player. Is it solely our responsibility? Of course not, there's plenty of blame to spread around. If we want to fix it, however, we need to lead by example and accept accountability for our role in it. I think Obama did a good job of striking that balance.

Oops, sorry.. I should rephrase my statement.. its 'Blame America First'.. And Obama is happy to take the blame.. because it allows him to push through his massive spending bills under the guise of fixing the economy. Bush didn't want to take the blame because it didn't fit HIS agenda.. Same bullshit, different President.
 
Originally posted by: Mean MrMustard
Originally posted by: Skoorb
The US brought the keg. It didn't make everybody else drink from it. Yeah, it started a good party, but as with life, you have only yourself to blame when the hangover kicks in the next day and you're puking your guts out. You don't blame the guy who brought the free beer.

One of the best analogies I've ever read on ATPN. This applies to more than just the thread topic too.

x2
 
Originally posted by: geno
I think he's playing the scapegoat role a little too heavily, but I don't think it's a huge deal to take the fall even when it's not solely our fault. It's good to see some humility and ownership (even if it is too much) from a politician, however it plays into the fingerpointing / witch hunt game which I'm not a fan of. He is right that greed brought us here, but greed is far from an American-only trait, we just have the means to really capitalize off of it.

Well, his approach was honest. We share a large amount of the blame. Also, the approach works well with the rest of the world. We've had a President who for 8 years told the rest of the world to go fuck itself. Now we have a President who believes in cooperation. What a breath of fresh air.

The Japanese must see Obama's comments as HONORABLE, no?

-Robert

 
That was a beautifully-written and very thorough article... it's sad that there's no equivalent to it in the North-American media...
 
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Oops, sorry.. I should rephrase my statement.. its 'Blame America First'.. And Obama is happy to take the blame.. because it allows him to push through his massive spending bills under the guise of fixing the economy. Bush didn't want to take the blame because it didn't fit HIS agenda.. Same bullshit, different President.

What is with you and these other losers and this "blame America first" badge of dishonour you put on people. Lets be realistic and forget about your faux-outrage-patriotism. Its not about blaming America (or anyone) first - its called being realistic. Its also about being a grown up and admitting that you are wrong, when you're wrong or when you're country was wrong. There is nothing wrong with that. Its called adulthood (the Bush admnin could have used some of that).

What do you think caused this mess if not for the US's banking system? Cant wait to see your non-response.
 
what a load of shit... "...even though i wasn't president at the time..." he just cannot resist those comments... like he would have done anything different...

'the usa' is not responsible for this, a handful of greedy pricks and their bought and paid for political shills are to blame for this... fuck him for painting me with this brush...

so are we now financially responsible to the world for this? i sure hope that this is one of bo's general purpose lies, and that he intends it to just be something he said because he thought it's what people wanted to hear...
 
I'm not sure you can blame America for this problem, especially the underline issues with debt.

Even though we run a huge debt our debt to GDP ratio is smaller than almost every other country that attended that meeting.

Our debt to GDP ratio is 60%.

Japan's is 170%, Italy 104%, Germany 64%, Canada 64%, France 63%.

These countries have been living beyond their means for years. And they do so by providing vast social service networks that discourage hard work and economic expansion. Look at the economic growth rates and unemployment rates of western Europe and you will see that they lag far behind the US.

Also, since the end of WW 2 we have been the engine of economic growth for the world. When the South East Asian economies went into a tailspin in the 1990s it was the strong US economy that helped pull them out of their recession. It the US consumer that allows Germany and Japan to enjoy such huge export based economies. These countries would be able to complain about how much wealth and jobs they have lost in this recession if we hadn't been their to provide them with wealth and jobs in the first place.

Strangely though, when we were running around buying Sony TVs and BMWs the world never seemed to show much gratitude towards our strong economy and buying power. But now that we are facing a slowdown they all want to point fingers at us.
 
Originally posted by: cubeless
what a load of shit... "...even though i wasn't president at the time..." he just cannot resist those comments... like he would have done anything different...

'the usa' is not responsible for this, a handful of greedy pricks and their bought and paid for political shills are to blame for this... fuck him for painting me with this brush...

so are we now financially responsible to the world for this? i sure hope that this is one of bo's general purpose lies, and that he intends it to just be something he said because he thought it's what people wanted to hear...

But the assholes that we collectively elected are the the ones who allowed this mess to occur. We as a collective unit share the blame, even though you and I aren't personally responsible.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
The US brought the keg. It didn't make everybody else drink from it. Yeah, it started a good party, but as with life, you have only yourself to blame when the hangover kicks in the next day and you're puking your guts out. You don't blame the guy who brought the free beer.

/thread
 
When Bush doesn't take the the blame its 'WHY WON'T THEY TAKE THE BLAME!', when Obama does take the blame its 'SEE! ITS THEIR FAULT! DAMN AMERICA!'.. We can't win here..

If we are so important that the entire world economy is our responsibility, then I want the ability to control the financial industry of these nations blaming us.
 
As for Obama's little speech:

1. It is very easy to blame the guy before you for any problems you experience. It is FAR hard to make the changes needed to erase those problems. And even harder to resist making some of the same moves that caused your predecessor to be unpopular in the first place.

2. Once again Obama is telling people exactly what they want to hear. He is amazingly talented at making these types of speeches and statements. But as we have learned over the last few months making changes that people want is much harder.
 
It takes courage to take responsibility for harm that your own country caused the world on the international stage. This, in stark contrast with bush's 'you're either with us, or against us' mentality is quite refreshing.

The idiots crying 'blame america first' can DIAF.

I think Stephen Colbert said it best when he said, 'and we all know reality has a strong liberal bias'

 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I'm not sure you can blame America for this problem, especially the underline issues with debt.

Even though we run a huge debt our debt to GDP ratio is smaller than almost every other country that attended that meeting.

Our debt to GDP ratio is 60%.

Japan's is 170%, Italy 104%, Germany 64%, Canada 64%, France 63%.

These countries have been living beyond their means for years. And they do so by providing vast social service networks that discourage hard work and economic expansion. Look at the economic growth rates and unemployment rates of western Europe and you will see that they lag far behind the US.

Also, since the end of WW 2 we have been the engine of economic growth for the world. When the South East Asian economies went into a tailspin in the 1990s it was the strong US economy that helped pull them out of their recession. It the US consumer that allows Germany and Japan to enjoy such huge export based economies. These countries would be able to complain about how much wealth and jobs they have lost in this recession if we hadn't been their to provide them with wealth and jobs in the first place.

Strangely though, when we were running around buying Sony TVs and BMWs the world never seemed to show much gratitude towards our strong economy and buying power. But now that we are facing a slowdown they all want to point fingers at us.



That's the point. There can't be any true friendship between nation, it is everyman to themselves. That, is the true reality, if you don't want to protect yourself, who will.
 
Originally posted by: Phokus
It takes courage to take responsibility for harm that your own country caused the world on the international stage. This, in stark contrast with bush's 'you're either with us, or against us' mentality is quite refreshing.

The idiots crying 'blame america first' can DIAF.

I think Stephen Colbert said it best when he said, 'and we all know reality has a strong liberal bias'

considering that we get virtually no plaudits for the massive good the usa does on the international stage, his emphasis on (what is in actuality hardly) our sins in this case is totally fucked up coming from our head politician.

and colbert is a highly compensated comedian with a group of writers who's job is to make fun of things you idiot... it's dolts like you who believed all the bullshit that bo pumped that he's now backtracking on...
 
Originally posted by: chess9
Originally posted by: geno
I think he's playing the scapegoat role a little too heavily, but I don't think it's a huge deal to take the fall even when it's not solely our fault. It's good to see some humility and ownership (even if it is too much) from a politician, however it plays into the fingerpointing / witch hunt game which I'm not a fan of. He is right that greed brought us here, but greed is far from an American-only trait, we just have the means to really capitalize off of it.

Well, his approach was honest. We share a large amount of the blame. Also, the approach works well with the rest of the world. We've had a President who for 8 years told the rest of the world to go fuck itself. Now we have a President who believes in cooperation. What a breath of fresh air.

The Japanese must see Obama's comments as HONORABLE, no?

-Robert

No, it's more like W said go fuck yourselves, and Obama is inviting people to come fuck us.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
The US brought the keg. It didn't make everybody else drink from it. Yeah, it started a good party, but as with life, you have only yourself to blame when the hangover kicks in the next day and you're puking your guts out. You don't blame the guy who brought the free beer.

the funny thing is that the worst financial activities off the last few years occurred in london, not new york, specifically the oil bubble and aig financial derivatives. I don't see how you can blame new york without blaming london.
 
Back
Top