Is the United States ready to receive Marines in bodybags?

[crooked22]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/ne..._ea/iraq_getting_ready

Now, this is perhaps a question many has not even asked themselves. The assault is going to be real
in a matter of days, perhaps we might even wake up tomorrow for the news. Many are VERY optimistic.
Perhaps righteously so, perhaps trusting that nothing will go wrong. But the reality of the situation
seems to dictate otherwise.

SITUATION:
Two groups of *very* motivated individuals are going to clash.
People on both sides expect friends and relatives to come home afterwards.
Unfortunately, in the search and destroy type of "game" some WILL lose.
Life will be wasted on both sides. The reality is, that with about 5,000+ insurgents,
many are going to cause damage to our troops.

Now, you hear people talking about "finally, they are going to be unleashed" etc... pep talk.

I ASK:
Is America as a nation really counting on EVERYONE of them coming back?
Is America as a nation WILLING to sacrifice a person's life in the name of "freedom" (as this fight is about, right?)
How can America as a nation prepare for the inevitable (deaths).
How in the event of the worset case scenario, (say 1,000 deaths on our side) what do you think
the President course of action will be? Vs. what should it be?

ALSO:
Iraqi's army performance is going to be measured. If they perform well, everything will seem
like they are going to be able to hold their own. But they can refuse to fight, like they have before.

Remember, is not you or me over there, is them. But mad props to all of them. Thank you very much
because in case of the worst, I can (and Us) count on you (them).

This is food for thought, because honestly, I fear for them (all) troops, rebels, and civilians over there.
I believe life is ONE, and thats it. Better make it worthwhile.

EDIT: removed "melodramatic" word from title (word was "getting")

 

[jpeyton]

Well at least the election is in the bag. So now we can give the marines the 'go ahead', and the body bags won't bring any bad press to the campaign.

 

[Tab]

We will win, without a doubt in my mind. Those guys will have training drills non-stop.

 

[rahvin]

It's silly to think that they can put up even a semi effective resistance. This will go down even worse for them than it did the first time we went in there. Over 80% of the civillians have evacuated, that gives the marines a much more free hand in using heavy ordinance.

 

[assemblage]

The terrorists have been given plenty of opportunity to solve the issue diplomatically. They choose not to. "I fear for them (all) troops, rebels, and civilians over there." Do you think the "rebels" would rather hug you or cut off your head?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Tabb
We will win, without a doubt in my mind. Those guys will have training drills non-stop.

I don't think that's really the issue. Clearly (IMO at least) we will win this as a military operation. The real question is whether the insurgents can inflict enough damage, either militarily or psychologically, to make the battle in Fallujah one that completely hoses public support for the war (a la the Tet Offensive).

This is a good-sized city, and the insurgents are deeply embedded in the community there (meaning we can't just PGM them into submission). They've already indicated a willingness to use WMDs (though of course it isn't clear whether they have that ability). This may turn ugly in terms of the loss of US/coalition/Iraqi forces and/or the loss of civilian life.

I pray for the success of this operation, as bloodlessly as possible. Ideally we will lose few friendly troops and inflict a decisive blow against the insurgents. We shall see . . .

 

[HamSupLo]

let the iraqis die for their own freedom.

 

[Tab]

Reguardless, I feel bad for anyone that is there. From the CQB materials and information I've seen, its going to be very bloody.

 

[assemblage]

OP, your melodramatic post header is very insensitive to people who may have family overseas. I heard the same drivel when my Marine reservist brother served in the vanguard of the 1991 assault on Iraqi forces.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: assemblage
OP, your melodramatic post header is very insensitive to people who may have family overseas. I heard the same drivel when my Marine reservist brother served in the vanguard of the 1991 assault on Iraqi forces.

We're not here to soothe your fears; we're discussing a war that has left 1100+ US soldiers dead from everyday insurgency, and we face a very real possibility of relatively large losses on a large-scale urban offensive.

While our soldiers are the best equipped and best trained in the world, remember that these insurgents aren't just civilians with rifles hiding behind barrels. The insurgency has shown itself to be well armed and organized.

 

[Beowulf]

The insurgents are armed and organized but they fight on the ground and one thing they can't help is air support constantly bombing em while we chase em down. Why do you think they have been waiting for civilians to leave not only does it show who is who but chances are the city is bound to get leveled.

 

[crooked22]

The terrorists have been given plenty of opportunity to solve the issue diplomatically. They choose not to. "I fear for them (all) troops, rebels, and civilians over there." Do you think the "rebels" would rather hug you or cut off your head?

Well hug me, of course :roll:

But then, we are in their turf... Thats expected.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
We're not here to soothe your fears; we're discussing a war that has left 1100+ US soldiers dead from everyday insurgency, and we face a very real possibility of relatively large losses on a large-scale urban offensive.

While our soldiers are the best equipped and best trained in the world, remember that these insurgents aren't just civilians with rifles hiding behind barrels. The insurgency has shown itself to be well armed and organized.

With all due respect to those that have given their lives 1100 casualties to take and occupy a country for over a year is so incredibly miniscule it's not even funny.

The last try at fallujah resulted in very small casualty numbers. Given our close alliance with Israel we have likely trained with the most highly skilled urban combat force in the world. In addition as I stated earlier the vast majority of the civilians have evacuated the city. It's going to be a one sided blood bath.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Tabb
We will win, without a doubt in my mind. Those guys will have training drills non-stop.

I don't think that's really the issue. Clearly (IMO at least) we will win this as a military operation. The real question is whether the insurgents can inflict enough damage, either militarily or psychologically, to make the battle in Fallujah one that completely hoses public support for the war (a la the Tet Offensive).

This is a good-sized city, and the insurgents are deeply embedded in the community there (meaning we can't just PGM them into submission). They've already indicated a willingness to use WMDs (though of course it isn't clear whether they have that ability). This may turn ugly in terms of the loss of US/coalition/Iraqi forces and/or the loss of civilian life.

I pray for the success of this operation, as bloodlessly as possible. Ideally we will lose few friendly troops and inflict a decisive blow against the insurgents. We shall see . . .

WMDs? Thats news to me, kind of like one old 80s shell that was used before...

 

[dnuggett]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: assemblage
OP, your melodramatic post header is very insensitive to people who may have family overseas. I heard the same drivel when my Marine reservist brother served in the vanguard of the 1991 assault on Iraqi forces.

We're not here to soothe your fears; we're discussing a war that has left 1100+ US soldiers dead from everyday insurgency, and we face a very real possibility of relatively large losses on a large-scale urban offensive.

While our soldiers are the best equipped and best trained in the world, remember that these insurgents aren't just civilians with rifles hiding behind barrels. The insurgency has shown itself to be well armed and organized.

Are they going to put up a fight? Yes. Will it last long, no. They will be cleaned out quickly, and I would hope the US set up a Green Zone once it's done. Their resistance is futile.

 

[assemblage]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: assemblage
OP, your melodramatic post header is very insensitive to people who may have family overseas. I heard the same drivel when my Marine reservist brother served in the vanguard of the 1991 assault on Iraqi forces.

We're not here to soothe your fears; we're discussing a war that has left 1100+ US soldiers dead from everyday insurgency, and we face a very real possibility of relatively large losses on a large-scale urban offensive.

While our soldiers are the best equipped and best trained in the world, remember that these insurgents aren't just civilians with rifles hiding behind barrels. The insurgency has shown itself to be well armed and organized.

Neither was many the 1991 Iraqi troops that my brother faced. I certainly don't need to be wet nursed by you, but "Is the United States getting ready to receive Marines in bodybags?" is an insensitive statement used to create trepidation. It's use and support of it's use lacks class.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Tabb

WMDs? Thats news to me, kind of like one old 80s shell that was used before...

Yeah, I don't think anyone knows whether they actually have them, but the threat has been made. See this article, for example. We shall see . . .

 

[GrGr]

The smart terrorists won't even be in Fallujah anymore when the assault hits. It is not in the nature of asymmetrical warfare to stand square in the way of a major military assault. I don't think it is any coincidence that insurgent strikes have increased in Ramadi lately.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: GrGr
The smart terrorists won't even be in Fallujah anymore when the assault hits. It is not in the nature of asymmetrical warfare to stand square in the way of a major military assault. I don't think it is any coincidence that insurgent strikes have increased in Ramadi lately.

Ding ding ding...we have a winner.

The strengths of the insurgency have been the scattered attacks on personnel and infrastructure. Never direct 1 v 1 military conflicts.

 

[Red Dawn]

Is the United States getting ready to receive Marines in bodybags?

While I am pissed at the Dub that they are there I don't fault them for doing their duty and I hope that they are successful and stay safe!

 

[crooked22]

No... I think is not insensitive BUT a very realistic title. because even if ONE died, some one in this country
will bear that burden. Perhaps is just easier for me to say it because I do not have anyone over there
that is close to me, but that does not mean I want to play with emotions. That is a very valid question, as
that is what will happen in many cases.

The 1100 "miniscule" amount doesnt take into consideration that it has been mainly "I hit you, you hit me"
situation. This will be an all out assault and the enemy will defend and will fight perhaps to the bitter end. After all, with a 10:1 ration of casualties (perhaps more?) they are growing in numbers and willing to put a fight.

If you wanna avoid thinking about it, fine, skip the thread, but don't assume that is not possible. After all, this is not about particular family members, but a question of how, as a collective, are we going to react to that.

If I remember correctly, MANY MANY people where very upset at a plane full with 20 or so flag draped boxes a while back.

 

[aswedc]

Regardless of how long it takes, we will win and in the process property will be leveled and innocent Iraqis will be killed in the crossfire. The families of the dead Marines and innocents will be devestated. Many Iraqis will have lost everything they have and despise the United States for the rest of their lives. Some of them and their children will join the insurgence or Al Qaeda, prolonging this cultural war for decades. Four more years!

 

[assemblage]

Originally posted by: crooked22
No... I think is not insensitive BUT a very realistic title. because even if ONE died, some one in this country
will bear that burden. Perhaps is just easier for me to say it because I do not have anyone over there
that is close to me, but that does not mean I want to play with emotions. That is a very valid question, as
that is what will happen in many cases.

The 1100 "miniscule" amount doesnt take into consideration that it has been mainly "I hit you, you hit me"
situation. This will be an all out assault and the enemy will defend and will fight perhaps to the bitter end. After all, with a 10:1 ration of casualties (perhaps more?) they are growing in numbers and willing to put a fight.

If you wanna avoid thinking about it, fine, skip the thread, but don't assume that is not possible. After all, this is not about particular family members, but a question of how, as a collective, are we going to react to that.

If I remember correctly, MANY MANY people where very upset at a plane full with 20 or so flag draped boxes a while back.

Lol, defending your lack of class.

 

[nCred]

Originally posted by: GrGr
The smart terrorists won't even be in Fallujah anymore when the assault hits. It is not in the nature of asymmetrical warfare to stand square in the way of a major military assault. I don't think it is any coincidence that insurgent strikes have increased in Ramadi lately.

Yeah, the rebels know that they are only effective in hit and run attacks and carbombings etc, it´s not going to be a huge battle with every Fallujah-rebel against the US forces.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: assemblage
OP, your melodramatic post header is very insensitive to people who may have family overseas. I heard the same drivel when my Marine reservist brother served in the vanguard of the 1991 assault on Iraqi forces.

We're not here to soothe your fears; we're discussing a war that has left 1100+ US soldiers dead from everyday insurgency, and we face a very real possibility of relatively large losses on a large-scale urban offensive.

While our soldiers are the best equipped and best trained in the world, remember that these insurgents aren't just civilians with rifles hiding behind barrels. The insurgency has shown itself to be well armed and organized.

And the insurgency has been treated just like the mistakes made in Vietnam. Controlled based on political decisions.

Let the problem be taken care of based on what it is. Military Conflict.