Question Is the Thread Ripper 3990x issue with windows 10 still there?

[iamgenius]

Like the title says. I'm talking about this:

The 64 Core Threadripper 3990X CPU Review: In The Midst Of Chaos, AMD Seeks Opportunity

www.anandtech.com

I have normal windows 10 Pro and I'm planning to get this monster CPU and set up a virtual lab full of VMs with it. Am I only left with going with a higher-end version of Windows 10 Professional? Windows 10 Pro for workstations that is?

They do have features I don't really need but they are nice:

Compare Windows 10 business editions

Compare Windows 10 editions and learn how their powerful features can benefit your business. Explore Windows 10 Enterprise vs. Pro and Windows Workstations.

www.microsoft.com

But will I lose anything like gaming support for example if going for those higher versions?

I'm sorry to ask but my lazy search couldn't bring me a definitive answer.

Thanks

 

[moinmoin]

If you don't mind Windows forcing NUMA on you just because Microsoft is greedy there are no other downsides as long as the software sticks to one NUMA node.

 

[iamgenius]

Got to read what this NUMA is.

 

[Atari2600]

If you don't know what NUMA is, I'd suggest you don't need a 3990x!

 

[KentState]

If you don't mind Windows forcing NUMA on you just because Microsoft is greedy there are no other downsides as long as the software sticks to one NUMA node.

I don't feel that's it's greed, but more of an oversight as they didn't anticipate cores going up to that high, this quickly, for general consumers.

 

[happyluckbox]

I thought this eventually got debunked (or windows released an update) and several websites showed that the 3990x works on windows 10 pro and has the same performance as enterprise/workstation?


I'm on windows 10 education, and I get 2x performance out of my 3990x vs my 3970x on some applications, on others I don't get much increase at all. Just curious if maybe changing to workstation would help?

 

[aigomorla]

If you don't know what NUMA is, I'd suggest you don't need a 3990x!

numa uma kuma?
Akuma mitata?

Seriously... it has to do with the arch of thread ripper and other multi cpu platforms and how windows handles it.
I am pretty sure W10Pro can handle NUMA and 2 processors. Its W10Home which has issues.

I do not think you would be required to run W10Enterprise, as its first off not really available to consumers hence enterprise, and workstation is uber expensive.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Akuma mitata?

Okay:

Sorry, had to do it.

 

[moinmoin]

I don't feel that's it's greed, but more of an oversight as they didn't anticipate cores going up to that high, this quickly, for general consumers.

It's greed because they used it for product segmentation. So the part that could theoretically work fine (and the Windows scheduler stumbled a lot with the changes in the last couple years for just being bad und unprepared, which is not the case here for a change) is in this case not working since it's a feature of higher priced Windows versions.

I am pretty sure W10Pro can handle NUMA and 2 processors. Its W10Home which has issues.

You're right, according to Wikipedia the segmentation is as follows:

• max 1 socket, max 64 threads: Home
• max 2 sockets, max 128 threads: Pro, Pro Education, Education
• max 4 sockets, max 256 threads: Pro for Workstations, Enterprise

So 3990X (64 cores, 128 threads) with Windows Pro should run without NUMA indeed.

 

[KentState]

It's greed because they used it for product segmentation. So the part that could theoretically work fine (and the Windows scheduler stumbled a lot with the changes in the last couple years for just being bad und unprepared, which is not the case here for a change) is in this case not working since it's a feature of higher priced Windows versions.

Windows is sold for profit and 99.999999% of the development is focused on pro-consumer and enterprise customers that benefit from 128 threads. The price of Windows factors in the cost of development and support for those customers, which is why the products cost more. They can average out the costs and just sell Windows, but then everyone would complain that the general home user browsing the web shouldn't be paying for development of enterprise requested enhancements.

 

[Stuka87]

I thought this eventually got debunked (or windows released an update) and several websites showed that the 3990x works on windows 10 pro and has the same performance as enterprise/workstation?


I'm on windows 10 education, and I get 2x performance out of my 3990x vs my 3970x on some applications, on others I don't get much increase at all. Just curious if maybe changing to workstation would help?

LTT did a test just last week (maybe the week before) where he built a "PC Pro" for the price of a Mac Pro. In it he used a thread ripper. And he stated he did so specifically against AMD's wishes (Whom he consulted with before building it) because of how Windows 10 deal with high core count CPU's.

Is it as bad as it was back when TR came out? Doesn't look like it. But its still not advised.

I have normal windows 10 Pro and I'm planning to get this monster CPU and set up a virtual lab full of VMs with it. Am I only left with going with a higher-end version of Windows 10 Professional? Windows 10 Pro for workstations that is?

For the OP, Windows 10 is not the best choice to be running a high number of VM's on. But, what will these VM's be doing? What hypervisor are you going to use? What resources do they require?

 

[iamgenius]

If you don't know what NUMA is, I'd suggest you don't need a 3990x!

Who said I need it? I definitely don't need it. It is for bragging rights ^_^

 

[iamgenius]

LTT did a test just last week (maybe the week before) where he built a "PC Pro" for the price of a Mac Pro. In it he used a thread ripper. And he stated he did so specifically against AMD's wishes (Whom he consulted with before building it) because of how Windows 10 deal with high core count CPU's.

Is it as bad as it was back when TR came out? Doesn't look like it. But its still not advised.



For the OP, Windows 10 is not the best choice to be running a high number of VM's on. But, what will these VM's be doing? What hypervisor are you going to use? What resources do they require?

Thanks for providing help buddy. Well, it is not a very serious project. Just a fun project. I'm an enthusiastic computer user. I will build a pentesting lab. I currently use vmware workstation and virtualbox and tend to run up to 10 VMs at a time. Windows VMs consume resources and I like to give them what they need. I just hate unresponsive systems. Linux boxes are fine, you probably can run zillions of them without them really complaining. I also want to build a virtual domain network (server/client) with serveral clients and learn how to administer it. I know for a more serious work, I will probably need a type 2 hypervisor but I'm not into that right now, though nothing prevents me from doing it in the future specially since free type 2 hypervisors exist:

The Top Open Source Hypervisor Technologies - open source for you

A hypervisor monitors running of virtual machines. It allows a large number of machines with different operating systems to run on a single host machine.

opensourceforu.com

Are they good anyways? Or should one always go with paid options? And how is MS Hyper-V for a hypervisor running a high number of VMs?

Will come back later

 

[aigomorla]

Who said I need it? I definitely don't need it. It is for bragging rights ^_^

MOAR CORES~!!!

Well normally i am in the same camp as you, however there are some times when its FASTER CORES > MOAR cores, and keeping a 64c monster in check is more difficult then keeping a 32c. Not to mention its easier to get higher clocks on a 32c over a 64c due to the same logic.

But if absolute gaming performance is what your after, then i would grab a lower tier'd ThreadRipper, or depending on what other cards you will be running, possibly a intel as you will get a better gaming performance out of the machine. (not really noticeable, but if your after absolutes)

 

[iamgenius]

I thought this eventually got debunked (or windows released an update) and several websites showed that the 3990x works on windows 10 pro and has the same performance as enterprise/workstation?


I'm on windows 10 education, and I get 2x performance out of my 3990x vs my 3970x on some applications, on others I don't get much increase at all. Just curious if maybe changing to workstation would help?

May you link those websites please? Did you run some benchmarks yourself?

 

[iamgenius]

MOAR CORES~!!!

Well normally i am in the same camp as you, however there are some times when its FASTER CORES > MOAR cores, and keeping a 64c monster in check is more difficult then keeping a 32c. Not to mention its easier to get higher clocks on a 32c over a 64c due to the same logic.

But if absolute gaming performance is what your after, then i would grab a lower tier'd ThreadRipper, or depending on what other cards you will be running, possibly a intel as you will get a better gaming performance out of the machine. (not really noticeable, but if your after absolutes)

I might at the end get the 3970x because of what you just explained, but the 3990x is very tempting. It is being there is a problem for me ^_^ If I get the 3990x, I'll keep it in check with a 480mm radiator. I just love water-cooling such monsters. I'm not after absolute gaming performance as I don't game a lot.

 

[JoeRambo]

64CPU limit in windows is real. Usually takes processor group aware software to avoid hitting it.

You can read about it:

The 64 Core Threshold – Processor Groups on Windows

TL;DR – Microsoft hacked in support for more than 64 logical CPU cores by adding ‘processor groups’. Unless an application is written to take advantage of multiple processor group…

bitsum.com

But for bragging it does not matter at all, the Process Manager cpu window will be huge anyway

 

[happyluckbox]

Here's 2 websites that said they did not notice any additional benefits going from windows 10 pro to w10 workstations/enterprise

AMD: Threadripper 3990X Isn't Better on Windows 10 Enterprise

AMD issues a statement.

www.tomshardware.com

.

AMD Threadripper 3990X: Does Windows 10 for Workstations speed up photogrammetry?

When AMD launched the 64-core Threadripper 3990X, some reviewers reported that performance of this 128-thread beast was hindered by running a normal version of Windows 10 Pro - and that instead using Windows 10 Pro for Workstations or Windows 10 Enterprise gave better results. We have...

www.pugetsystems.com

I haven't done any official tests myself, but I am extremely tempted to try upgrading to workstation to see if there is any benefit...