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Is the the problem the refining or the supply of oil?

imported_tss4

Golden Member
So, I'm confused. Maybe you guys can shed some light on this for me. I've heard many sources say that the recent gas crises is caused by our inability to refine oil since many refineries are down in the gulf area. However, the president has recently started using the strategic oil reserve to help meet oil demand and reduce the crises. But that oil has to be refined too, so it shouldn't actually help, if the problem is more about refinary capacity.

So, why would using the strategic oil reseverve help at all? Seems contradictory to me.
 
we have strategic oil reserves for emergencies and such.

the problem is refining and also that different states have different oil regulations. i think they will eliminate the different regulations for each state for a short time as the oil shortage continues.

we have no choice now but to ask Europe for help. we're going to need oil from Europe
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
we have strategic oil reserves for emergencies and such.

the problem is refining and also that different states have different oil regulations. i think they will eliminate the different regulations for each state for a short time as the oil shortage continues.

we have no choice now but to ask Europe for help. we're going to need oil from Europe

ask europe for help! can the conservatives handle this? 😛
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
we have strategic oil reserves for emergencies and such.

the problem is refining and also that different states have different oil regulations. i think they will eliminate the different regulations for each state for a short time as the oil shortage continues.

we have no choice now but to ask Europe for help. we're going to need oil from Europe

So if the problem is refining, how does using the strategic oil reserve (which still needs to be refined) help?
 
Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: raildogg
we have strategic oil reserves for emergencies and such.

the problem is refining and also that different states have different oil regulations. i think they will eliminate the different regulations for each state for a short time as the oil shortage continues.

we have no choice now but to ask Europe for help. we're going to need oil from Europe

So if the problem is refining, how does using the strategic oil reserve (which still needs to be refined) help?

if it makes you feel better i was wondering the same thing - it's not exactly clear but i think this is mainly due to the media not presenting it clearly. occasionally i'll see the media report on something technical that i have first hand knowledge about and i can only laugh at how much they butcher it and put incorrect statements in there.
 
LOGISTICS !

READ !

The effects of the monster storm that devastated the Gulf Coast spread through the nation's economy yesterday, disrupting shipping and rail networks and sending prices for lumber, coffee and other commodities soaring.

Hurricane Katrina is likely to drag down U.S. economic growth in the months ahead, analysts said, threatening what has been a robust expansion.
Katrina's economic effects may be more lasting than those that usually follow big storms, economists and businesspeople said yesterday, owing to the severity of the damage and the unique geography of the New Orleans region. The storm hit a chokepoint in the U.S. economy -- a concentration of ports, rail lines, barge traffic and major highways making up one of the nation's major trade hubs.

New Orleans is underwater, and its future is uncertain -- as is that of the $49 billion in goods, 60 percent of U.S. grain exports, and 26 percent of the nation's natural gas supply and crude oil that flow through nearby ports each year.

"The Mississippi River is the aorta of the American economy, and New Orleans is the access point to it," said Al DeLattre, a supply-chain specialist with consulting firm Accenture Ltd.

In an attempt to fend off disruptions to the nation's fuel supply resulting from the storm, President Bush yesterday moved to release at least 1 million barrels of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, a 700 million-barrel emergency stockpile. Oil prices fell slightly yesterday on the news.

Signs emerged yesterday of the havoc the storm wreaked on the companies and transportation lines that supply the nation, with dozens of firms disclosing the scope of damages at facilities near the Gulf of Mexico or simply stating they could not yet say what that scope might be.

Union Carbide Corp. officials could not even get to their chemicals plant in Hahnville, La., the firm said yesterday, and it will probably take weeks to resume operations there. Chiquita Brands International Inc. reported severe damage at the Gulfport, Miss., facility where it stores one-fourth of the bananas it imports from Central America.

Yellow Roadway Corp., one of the nation's largest trucking companies, has 20 trucking terminals in the area affected by the storm, some of which may have been destroyed, chief executive William D. Zollars said yesterday. With major bridges near New Orleans damaged, the company is routing trucks hours out of their way.

Rail carriers Norfolk Southern Corp., Union Pacific Corp. and Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp. have all stopped freight traffic into the afflicted area. And shipping experts said it is hard to predict how long it will take the Port of New Orleans and other nearby ports to reopen, given that they may need to dredge new channels and make major repairs. Efforts to reach officials of the Port of New Orleans were unsuccessful yesterday.

"I don't think there is any historical precedent for an incident of this scale," said C. James Kruse, director of the Center for Ports and Waterways at the Texas Transportation Institute.

The damage might even be felt at the breakfast table. New Orleans warehouses hold about a quarter of the nation's raw coffee, 211 million pounds. Concerns that importers will have difficulty rerouting coffee shipments and that large amounts of inventory have been lost pushed the price of coffee for December delivery up to $1.01 a pound yesterday on the New York Board of Trade, an increase of more than 3 cents, after gains Monday and Tuesday.

The sugar Americans add to their coffee could get more expensive too; Department of Agriculture officials are sufficiently concerned about tight sugar supplies because of Katrina that they raised import quotas on refined sugar on Tuesday.

Exporters of U.S. goods, especially farmers in the Midwest, may have the most to lose if New Orleans area ports are out of service for a prolonged period. The harvest is just beginning -- the time when grain and other major commodities for export are carried by barge down the Mississippi River, then deposited in cargo ships to be carried overseas.
 
Originally posted by: Tommunist
Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: raildogg
we have strategic oil reserves for emergencies and such.

the problem is refining and also that different states have different oil regulations. i think they will eliminate the different regulations for each state for a short time as the oil shortage continues.

we have no choice now but to ask Europe for help. we're going to need oil from Europe

So if the problem is refining, how does using the strategic oil reserve (which still needs to be refined) help?

if it makes you feel better i was wondering the same thing - it's not exactly clear but i think this is mainly due to the media not presenting it clearly. occasionally i'll see the media report on something technical that i have first hand knowledge about and i can only laugh at how much they butcher it and put incorrect statements in there.


Damn you liberal media....

I vaguely remember a few weeks ago ( on CNN i think ) there used to be more refineries than now.

Can anyone shed any light on this and if this is true what was the reason behind it ??


 
Originally posted by: tss4
So then, the people that say its a only refining issue are wrong. It is also a shortage issue.
And a power issue.

Without power down in NOLA, the major pipelines used to deliver gas to areas like Atlanta and Memphis are useless.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: tss4
So then, the people that say its a only refining issue are wrong. It is also a shortage issue.
And a power issue.

Without power down in NOLA, the major pipelines used to deliver gas to areas like Atlanta and Memphis are useless.

sure. Just annoys me that the oil companies keep saying there is no shortage, yet we release the strategic reserve. Just tell it to the American consumer straight.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: tss4
So then, the people that say its a only refining issue are wrong. It is also a shortage issue.
And a power issue.

Without power down in NOLA, the major pipelines used to deliver gas to areas like Atlanta and Memphis are useless.

Power was restored to the Pascagoula oil pipeline to Atlanta this morning.

However there is no oil at the port of Fouchon yet to send down the pipeline.

I can tell you the main Fuel center for WalMart and Sam's is toast for probably a year or more. It was located on the east side of New Orleans in Chalmette that took the west eye of the storm and was the first to go under water.

It was called Murphy Oil and it is gone.

The rest of the Refineries are fine once they get power restored.

I repeat The rest of the Refineries are fine once they get power restored.

So the "crisis" may be real in the short term but there is no excuse for long term gouging.

Really there is no excuse for the short term gouging.

The stations that cranked prices up to $6 immediately should be forced out of business (turned over to someone else) and they should be jailed.

I talked to the station owner here this morning and he said he is NOT going to raise the price above his normal margin.

Unfortunately there is no Tankers able to make it here to re-fuel so the price does not matter. Unless we get tankers from Houston or St Louis we are out of gas here.

I will be getting around by Copter for now so I won't be needing fuel.
Hopefully get back online when my shift ends on Sunday and get flown back here.


 
Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: tss4
So then, the people that say its a only refining issue are wrong. It is also a shortage issue.
And a power issue.

Without power down in NOLA, the major pipelines used to deliver gas to areas like Atlanta and Memphis are useless.

sure. Just annoys me that the oil companies keep saying there is no shortage, yet we release the strategic reserve. Just tell it to the American consumer straight.

The shortage thay may exist in raw oil is do to what was being pumped from the Gulf is not longer available.

So now the raw oil and refined products out of the area are no longer available.

 
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: tss4
So then, the people that say its a only refining issue are wrong. It is also a shortage issue.
And a power issue.

Without power down in NOLA, the major pipelines used to deliver gas to areas like Atlanta and Memphis are useless.

sure. Just annoys me that the oil companies keep saying there is no shortage, yet we release the strategic reserve. Just tell it to the American consumer straight.

The shortage thay may exist in raw oil is do to what was being pumped from the Gulf is not longer available.

So now the raw oil and refined products out of the area are no longer available.

But again, the oil companies are wrong when they say its just a refining issue. Seems they could be a little more straight up with us.
 
There has not been a new refinery built in the US since the 70's. And our fuel needs have nearly doubled since. Do the math..............
 
Coworker mentioned that he had heard that the EPA was lowering, temporarily, regulations on gasoline refinement and octane requirements so that refineries could get back up to speed quicker and produce more. Apparantely, less refined gas is faster to make. Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger! 🙂
 
Yeah because some refineries have to create (literally) 30-40 different "blends" to satisfy EPA regulations in the various states (some of which vary even in the SAME STATE)...

The problem isn't supply of crude, there is plenty. We just don't have enough refineries and the largest one in the entire country is shutdown right now.
 
Some hot and cold air mix, we get wind and rain and the richest and most powerful country on the Earth comes to it's knees. Makes you wonder if we should put some money into infrastructure and not just blowing up and rebuilding other countries.
 
Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: raildogg
we have strategic oil reserves for emergencies and such.

the problem is refining and also that different states have different oil regulations. i think they will eliminate the different regulations for each state for a short time as the oil shortage continues.

we have no choice now but to ask Europe for help. we're going to need oil from Europe

So if the problem is refining, how does using the strategic oil reserve (which still needs to be refined) help?



it's sentiment

releasing oil from the SPR is a way for the government saying they are going to do everything they can to help things since other than refining there is a problem of getting oil into the country through the port in NO
 
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