Is the division in American politics the result mostly from movement to the left by the left?

[brandonbull]

You're a chump for conspiracy theories, huh? When 17 intelligence agencies, Twitter, Facebook & private cyber security firms all agree that the Russians meddled in the election on behalf of Trump you just pretend that never happened because Steele dossier.

17 intelligence agencies? Really? Did you get that from John Clapper?

 

[pmv]

I'm not surprised you see a 70% tax rate as a good thing. But then again, America on the whole has edged left due to the radicalism of today's liberals having become their mainstream. Abolish ICE, amirite?

Well on economics the whole US political system moved strongly to the right with Reagan. The Republicans moved right and kept on going, the Democrats partially followed them, now (perhaps in the aftermath of the financial crisis) seem to be having second thoughts and are perhaps shifting back to the centre again.

On social issues it seems a bit complicated. There's obviously been a general shift towards liberalism, but it's been uneven and maybe has started to interact with economic issues in an unfortunate way. The educated and affluent have clearly shifted faster than everyone else.

Then there's race...where the Republicans are slowly slipping into madness.

 

[fskimospy]

When the "foreigners" are people connected to Putin, it is conspiring with a hostile foreign government.

No, it is not. Your statement is simply factually false. 'People working for the government' are not 'the government'. You are conspiring with a hostile foreign government when you are taking actions in furtherance of that government's policy like the Trump campaign did in colluding with them about the release of those criminally obtained emails.

Steele, on the other hand, was working directly contrary to the Russian government's interests. I am very certain Russia would have vastly preferred its conspiracy with Trump not be exposed. As an example for how silly your argument is by your logic Russia worked together with the US government to get the files leaked by Edward Snowden because he was an employee of the US government. Did the US government conspire with Russia to expose US government secrets? How dumb is that?

My confusion is yours and other Liberals refusal to admit that the dossier was funded by Clinton and the DNC and contains information from Russian officials.

Huh? Liberals don't refuse that at all. It's frankly baffling that conservatives think that would be a problem. Steele was attempting to get information about the intentions and actions of the Russian government. Wouldn't some of the best sources of information for that be people who worked for the Russian government? The US government undoubtedly has numerous Russian officials that are sources for our spies. Steele would have been incompetent if he hadn't been using those sources, if available.

One side, Trump, conspired with the Russian government to further Russia's agenda. The other side, Clinton, paid Steele to uncover Russia's agenda. One is criminal, the other is not. Do you now understand the difference?

 

[SlowSpyder]

Well on economics the whole US political system moved strongly to the right with Reagan. The Republicans moved right and kept on going, the Democrats partially followed them, now (perhaps in the aftermath of the financial crisis) seem to be having second thoughts and are perhaps shifting back to the centre again.

On social issues it seems a bit complicated. There's obviously been a general shift towards liberalism, but it's been uneven and maybe has started to interact with economic issues in an unfortunate way. The educated and affluent have clearly shifted faster than everyone else.

Then there's race...where the Republicans are slowly slipping into madness.

What does this mean?

Today the left wants privilege and is anti-white.

 

[cytg111]

That's funny coming from the Russian dossier party. The Dems conspired and colluded with the Russians in an effort to prove that Trump was the one conspiring and colluding. Using typical Dimocrat logic, Gov. Northam denied being in blackface for a photo because he always remembers when he uses blackface and that one he doesn't remember.

Ok Vlad.

 

[cytg111]

What does this mean?

Today the left wants privilege and is anti-white.

Are you afraid? Of the anti-whites?

 

[tweaker2]

Ah, I see, anyone who is not a Democrat or a liberal or a progressive is a Russian.

Trying to silence dissent, hmm? That is the same thing you are doing. Projection.

I'm a Hillary voter, but I moved on after the election. You can't. You didn't see Bush/McCain/Romney voters still rattling about the 2008 and 2012 elections 2 years later like this.

I'm glad to be an Independent. Not beholden to anyone.

Get out of the echo chamber, the country doesn't represent Democrats alone. Your party has a LOT of flaws before they make their case to why they should win in 2020. You don't have 2020 in the bag, remember that. It's February 2019, anything can happen.

I consider myself to be an middle class independent because there are some things I like about both ideologies and when a legislator from either side speaks to me in a factual truthful manner about those things that concern me, I give that legislator my time to listen to what they have to say.

The problem I've run into since Reagan took office is that the Repub Party has burned through their stash of credibility and act like they still have some of it left to throw into the fire and they simply don't. The party now has to rely on the likes of snake oil elixir salesmen exactly like Trump to keep it from falling apart. I haven't seen anything remotely similar from the Dems.

There's one single significant reason why Trump won the Repub primaries: He just so happened to be the most convincing liar out the whole greedy corrupted gaggle of Repub clowns that piled out of that clown car they were riding in.

The Repub Party has zero credibility. The party has proven itself to be wholly untrustworthy and due to its complete and utter sellout to the aristocrat class, are now relying on empty promises and deception to appeal to and appease their working class constituency that keeps these corrupt legislators of theirs in office.

And let's not lay all the blame on these corrupted politicians as the folks who keep these meatheads in office are more so liable for the sickness the party is ailing from. The party leadership is selling them worthless counterfeit bonds and their commoners keep buying them while getting absolutely nothing of value in return except more worthless promissory notes and horror stories of how the whole outside world that ain't white is coming after them.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Are you afraid? Of the anti-whites?

No, I love our melting pot and that America is a mix of all kinds of different bits of other cultures. I am the average Trump voter, I just care that people will put the constitution first and add to society, not be a parasite. We don't care about skin color, that is a leftist false narrative.

 

[Jhhnn]

When the "foreigners" are people connected to Putin, it is conspiring with a hostile foreign government. My confusion is yours and other Liberals refusal to admit that the dossier was funded by Clinton and the DNC and contains information from Russian officials.

So desperately duh-versionary. Having Americans wearing your headset is precisely what Putin wants. I mean, when SHS said God wanted Trump to be President she forgot that Putin demonstrably wanted it too, and worked to have it. If you think he's trying to do us any favors you're delusional.

 

[fskimospy]

No, I love our melting pot and that America is a mix of all kinds of different bits of other cultures. I am the average Trump voter, I just care that people will put the constitution first and add to society, not be a parasite. We don't care about skin color, that is a leftist false narrative.

Slowspyder wants you to know he doesn't see race.

Slowspyder also wants you to know that having brown skin is relevant to whether or not he's a racist.

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...th-of-a-nation-2552156.2557736/#post-39662955

 

[cytg111]

17 intelligence agencies? Really? Did you get that from John Clapper?

Yea cause Clapper is .. fake news ?

 

[Jhhnn]

No, I love our melting pot and that America is a mix of all kinds of different bits of other cultures. I am the average Trump voter, I just care that people will put the constitution first and add to society, not be a parasite. We don't care about skin color, that is a leftist false narrative.

That follows the maxim that if you're going to tell a lie then tell a really big one. Make it Yuge. Trump's base isn't about that at all.

Hence the failure of our political system to serve socially conservative/racist voters who also want to tax the rich and preserve Social Security. Democrats won’t ratify their racism; Republicans, who have no such compunctions, will — remember, the party establishment solidly backed Roy Moore’s Senate bid — but won’t protect the programs they depend on.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/04/opinion/ralph-northam-howard-schultz.html

 

[cytg111]

No, I love our melting pot and that America is a mix of all kinds of different bits of other cultures. I am the average Trump voter, I just care that people will put the constitution first and add to society, not be a parasite. We don't care about skin color, that is a leftist false narrative.

Yo Slow yer Goebbels there Slow.
Guess what side is the dems.
Guess what side engages in votersuppression of the black vote.
Guess who calls the idea of elections being a national holiday a "power grab" by the democrats.
Guess who .....
Slow, you are American Taliban. Good job. Again.
You are a Darwin Award in motion.

 

[Jhhnn]

17 intelligence agencies? Really? Did you get that from John Clapper?

I'll narrow it to this, which is obviously more reliable than a President who lied an average of 15 times a day for a whole year-

https://www.npr.org/sections/memmos/2018/07/18/630057400/guidance-on-17-intelligence-agencies

I'm also confident that more will be revealed thru the ongoing Special Counsel investigation.

 

[Moonbeam]

No, I love our melting pot and that America is a mix of all kinds of different bits of other cultures. I am the average Trump voter, I just care that people will put the constitution first and add to society, not be a parasite. We don't care about skin color, that is a leftist false narrative.

I don’t see how you can say that skin color doesn’t matter and have the the President’s people raving about his miraculous tanning gene.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Slowspyder wants you to know he doesn't see race.

Slowspyder also wants you to know that having brown skin is relevant to whether or not he's a racist.

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...th-of-a-nation-2552156.2557736/#post-39662955

My comment there was sarcasm about how the left looks at things. You're missing the context but think you're on to something.

 

[UberNeuman]

I don’t see how you can say that skin color doesn’t matter and have the the President’s people raving about his miraculous tanning gene.

Well, his people worship their Golden Calf.

 

[Jhhnn]

I don’t see how you can say that skin color doesn’t matter and have the the President’s people raving about his miraculous tanning gene.

Bada-Bing!

 

[SlowSpyder]

That follows the maxim that if you're going to tell a lie then tell a really big one. Make it Yuge. Trump's base isn't about that at all.



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/04/opinion/ralph-northam-howard-schultz.html

Oooo... NY Times says something. Neato.

 

[fskimospy]

Oooo... NY Times says something. Neato.

Can you give us a list of news sources that you accept negative reports about Trump from?

 

[fskimospy]

I don’t see how you can say that skin color doesn’t matter and have the the President’s people raving about his miraculous tanning gene.

The miraculous tanning gene that somehow misses right around his eyes where goggles would go.

 

[Jhhnn]

Oooo... NY Times says something. Neato.

From the guy who went wild over a fake Newsmax video... Post-truth with a vengeance, huh?

 

[cytg111]

Can you give us a list of news sources that you accept negative reports about Trump from?

How about this guy

 

[zinfamous]

In the link below to an Investor's Business Daily Editorial this claim is made, that, It's official, the Democrats are the extremists today", and cite evidence from the respected Pew Research Center as evidence. Check out the link and along with other info, some of the claims that are made I will list after providing the link:

https://www.investors.com/politics/...t-democrats-have-shifted-to-the-extreme-left/

Pew asks, for example, whether poor people have it easy because they can get government benefits without doing anything in return. In 1994, 63% of Republicans agreed with this sentiment, as did 44% of Democrats.

This year, 65% of Republicans agreed — a 2-point increase — while just 18% of Democrats did — a 26-point drop.

Nearly two-thirds (65%) of Democrats used to believe that most people who want to get ahead can do so if they work hard. Today, just 45% of Democrats believe this. Among Republicans, the change was negligible — it went from 73% in 1994 to 77% today.

How about the question of whether racial discrimination is the "main reason many black people can't get ahead these days"?

In 1994, just 39% of Democrats and 26% of Republicans felt this way. That was 14 years before the U.S. elected a black president.

Now, after eight years of Obama in the White House, 64% of Democrats say racism is the main reason blacks can't get ahead, while 14% of Republicans do.

National defense?

Back in 1994, 44% of Republicans said the best way to secure peace was through military strength. Today, that figure is 53% — an increase of 9 points.

But on the Democratic side, the share who agreed with "peace through strength" dropped from 28% to 13% — a 15-point drop.

Pew also asked whether "corporations make too much profit." In 1994, the gap between Democrats and Republicans on this issue was 18 percentage points. Today, it's 30 points.

In this case, the entire increase in the gap came from Democrats. While 61% of them said in 1994 that corporations make too much money, 73% now feel that way. There's been no change on the Republicans side — it's remained at 43%.

One issue where Republicans shifted further out to the edge than Democrats was on whether environmental laws and regulations cost too many jobs and hurt the economy.

But on one big social issue, Republicans have become far more moderate over the years.

The Pew survey asks whether homosexuality should be discouraged by society. In 1994, 58% of Republicans and 42% of Democrats said it should. By 2017, the share of Republicans who felt that way dropped 21 points, in tandem with the decline among Democrats.

Of course, if you want to see how extreme Democrats have become, all you need to do is look at who is now considered the soul of the party — far-left liberal Sen. Elizabeth Warren — or the fact that a substantial number of Democratic lawmakers have signed onto Bernie Sanders' radical "Medicare for all" plan. Meanwhile, conservatives couldn't even muster a majority of Republicans in the Senate to repeal ObamaCare.

Personally, I find the data to be rather unconvincing because I see other reasons for the changes in opinions from past to present. For example on too much corporate profit in 1994, that problem has steadily worsened since then. A number of other of the points presented are affected in the same way, in my opinion. I think the logic presented here, while sounding quite pursuasive, is quite unsound. How about you?

I read this as Democrats adjusting their perspective in line with the adjusting reality of the world around them: obviously corporations are making mroe and more and more and more money than they were 25 years ago, especially at the top. Why wouldn't perspective on that fact change? It is only reasonable, right?

We even hear from righties all the time that "racism is far worse than it was before Obama was president!" So ah, why should liberals not be able to see that changing tide as well? ...admittedly, it's strange to see a poll where conservatives move against some of their more vocal arguments, but whatever. I guess that isn't really new. likewise with the first point: with wealth concentrating more and more and more at the tippy top, what kind of reasonable person thinks that poor people could ever experience anything like "freeloading" with the pittance that is available, and is factually claimed in considerably small numbers, that is welfare?

 

[Moonbeam]

No, I love our melting pot and that America is a mix of all kinds of different bits of other cultures. I am the average Trump voter, I just care that people will put the constitution first and add to society, not be a parasite. We don't care about skin color, that is a leftist false narrative.

Here in my opinion is what you have right and what you have wrong:

The claim to support for a mix of all kinds of different bits of other cultures is far more Democratic party emphasized than by the Republican party because, while the latter may like the bits of other culture in the culture, they are often on the side of dishing out abuse and the demonizing of the actual people who bring those bits and pieces to America. And don't forget that conservatives, on average, have a relatively larger number of moral concerns than liberals do, which translates into having a larger number of sacred cows they hold as true, and if they get twisted about in their heads as to what those moral concerns really should be about, but some aberrant and corrupted culturally handed down and blindly accepted version of them, will turn them into bigots. In shour, conservatives have a lot more areas where their morality can be corrupted.

So the actual fact is that democrats are better at bits and pieces of other culture because they are more acception or put another way, less likely to be more resistant. Then there arises the problem of seeing this. Republicans, having a larger range of moral concerns have a larger range of moral mistakes they can make and a greater contempt for immorality, thus causing them to need not to see their own moral failings when they occur.

Secondly, as far as 'constitution first goes, the same moral blindness is likely to creep in. Trump has been a threat to the constitution from way before he was even elected. He has spent his whole life abusing the legal system. He is a criminal. He is also a massive parasite. He has constantly throughout his life of abusing other people like a blood sucking tick simply by threatening to sue people into extinction of their financial assets.

So I love your sense of morality but can't fail to see how you misapply it on a regular basis. Your morality is being used against you by a con man. You need moral courage to see it. That will be up to you. I understand better than most, I think, how hard that is. I spent a few years in hell facing it in myself.