You are using the kind of innuendo and double speak that got us into this mess in the first place. War in Iraq = war on terrorism = result of 9/11 when in truth Iraq didn't have anything to do with 9/11 or the war on terror. Please don't refer to me as killer, that reference would be more accurately applied to Bush and the members of his administration.
You are using the kind of innuendo and double speak that got us into this mess in the first place. War in Iraq = war on terrorism = result of 9/11 when in truth Iraq didn't have anything to do with 9/11 or the war on terror. Please don't refer to me as killer, that reference would be more accurately applied to Bush and the members of his administration.
The US screwed up since they began believing their own propaganda. Saddam was well liked by most of the people and those who were "oppressed" had sided with the Iranians or were in open revolt (kurds), and still they were in the minority.
Did the US really believe that they had won? Saddam's strategy was brilliant. He knew his military could not have won against the overwhelming technological edge the US had, so he used a series of delaying tactics in order to assimilate his best fighters into the population to wage a long guerrilla warfare campaign against the invaders. The US thought the Republican Guard, etc. had given up and ran home to momma but now they are finding out that isn't the case.
It isn't that the US had used poor tactics, but rather Saddam used better, and that is why the US is floundering over in Iraq.
Did the US really believe that they had won? Saddam's strategy was brilliant. He knew his military could not have won against the overwhelming technological edge the US had, so he used a series of delaying tactics in order to assimilate his best fighters into the population to wage a long guerrilla warfare campaign against the invaders. The US thought the Republican Guard, etc. had given up and ran home to momma but now they are finding out that isn't the case.
It isn't that the US had used poor tactics, but rather Saddam used better, and that is why the US is floundering over in Iraq.
Where are you getting your crack from?... There is absolutely nothing suggesting that Iraqis liked Saddam... if there's one thing we know for sure about Iraq, it's that Saddam Hussein was very much disliked by the overwhelming majority of Iraqis Sunnis and Shiite alike. Secondly it looks as if most of the resistance we're feeling in Iraq comes from outside the country, rather than from within.
-Max
where is the proff of that?
And if it is the case, Its our responceability as the occuping force to protect their borders.
But hey, we cant even protect our own.
Another fine example of someone who allows others to think for them. Go and watch Fox news, its about time for your daily brainwashing.
daniel1113
Diamond Member
- Jun 6, 2003
- 6,448
- 0
- 0
Brainwashing?... in what sense... that the Iraqis liked Saddam?.... go find me an Iraqi who liked Saddam. Show me an article or poll or ANYTHING suggesting they liked Saddam... and as for the Foreign fighters.... here's a CNN source
"U.S. Army Brig. Gen. Mark Hertling said "foreign fighters" appear to be behind the wave of bombings, noting that the mode of operations did not fit loyalists of Saddam Hussein's regime. "
Where the quote above came from
-Max
Ok since personal flames are not permitted here... suffice to say that I am appalled by your lack of knowledge and naivete.
Simple question.... Who was Saddam running against?... OHHHHH Noone... yeah... Stalin used to get a high approval rating too... because anyone stupid enough NOT to agree pulled a Rabbit in the Hat trick.
Please O Please be somewhat reasonable in this conversation... it's impossible to discuss with someone who claims the Moon is purple.
Ask any Iraqi.... even the ones who are very much opposed to the US presence in Iraq... ask them how they feel about Saddam... After you do that.... search... and I mean really search... see if you can find me an Iraqi who was happy with Saddam
-Max
-Max
Whether or not Iraqis were happy with Saddam it wasn't Bush's job to tell America he had to be removed because he was a threat and had WMD neither of which were true and now claim he had to be removed because Iraqis were unhappy with him. Doing so Bush has taken the war on terror and made it a war on Islam in the eyes of the Muslim world because none of the reasons Bush gave for attacking Iraq were true and now he's gone to a fall back position that is not a valid reason for invading and occupying a foreign country unprovoked. Also if this had to be done in Iraq why isn't the US going after the dictators and oppressive regimes in the rest of the world? There are many. Again it makes the US look like they have one set of rules for Muslim nations and another set for the rest of the world and that's why the war on terror won't be won with the current line of reasoning. The war on terror will be won only when people all feel they are being treated fairly then they will recognize the terrorists for what they are instead of being given proof of the terrorists anti-US and anti-western propaganda. In Iraq Bush simply handed the terrorists a huge propaganda victory and we are seeing the results in the increase in the number and sophistication of attacks. Also on the point of Saddam winning unopposed with 100% of the vote I would like to remind Americans we had an election where the winner won with half a million fewer votes than his opponent. Not much difference between the two IMO.
Remember this?
100% of the vote was Yes for Saddam.
You must be a real fool to believe that not a single Iraqi liked Saddam. He wouldn't have stayed in power as long as he did if he was despised as you claim. So what if he was running against noone? You lack any understanding of a one party gov't, and yes it was theoretically possible for Saddam to lose that election.
BTW Stalin was a great leader.
Who the heck cares if Iraqis love Saddam or not. Are we now in the business of helping discontent foreigner to remove their leader?
Boy, count me out of paying tax if my money is being used for that.
Violetaura,
You really are that stupid huh?
------------------------------
rchiu,
Maybe not, because if we were, we'd be in hundreds of countries all across the globe. However we can be clear on one issue... the Middle East is one region where the people's discontentment is starting to affect us. September 11th, the USS Cole, Embassy Bombings, etc. Terrorism is born out of discontent, because dictators use the anti-american, anti-israel sentiment to misdirect their citzen's discontent. If we allow that to progress unchecked then we will be collecting your tax money to clean up the wreckage of whatever city these misdirected fanatics nuke.
-Max
You really are that stupid huh?
------------------------------
rchiu,
Maybe not, because if we were, we'd be in hundreds of countries all across the globe. However we can be clear on one issue... the Middle East is one region where the people's discontentment is starting to affect us. September 11th, the USS Cole, Embassy Bombings, etc. Terrorism is born out of discontent, because dictators use the anti-american, anti-israel sentiment to misdirect their citzen's discontent. If we allow that to progress unchecked then we will be collecting your tax money to clean up the wreckage of whatever city these misdirected fanatics nuke.
-Max
And it isn't because the US supports Israel by selling/giving them advanced weaponry which is actively used on those countries?
How is the air up there space-cadet? Next time post when the drugs wear off.
Violetaura,
Ahhh yes spacecadet.... ahhh yes drugs....
and yet you are still completely incapable of even understanding my arguments. I'll try simplification...
Hmmm I wonder where Egypt, and Saudi Arabia get their F-16s and M1a2 Abrams' from?... OOOOOHHHHHH YEAAAAAHHHH... the United States..... hmmmmmmmmm
Fact: Non-palestinians have killed tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Palestinians.
Fact: The Arab kingdom of Jordan, and the Arab state of Egypt both occupied the West Bank and Gaza strip for 18 Years, and yet never set up any semblence of a state for the Palestinians.
Fact: Israel is the only democracy in the middle east, all other Arab nations are either Kingdoms, or dictatorships.
Fact: Arabs in Israel have more rights than in any other Arab nation.
Arab nations are listed as some of the worst abusers of human rights in the world.
Conclusion: The non-palestinian Arab nations do not care one red cent for the Palestinians other than to use them as political and sacrificial pawns against Israel.
Ahhh yes spacecadet.... ahhh yes drugs....
and yet you are still completely incapable of even understanding my arguments. I'll try simplification...
Hmmm I wonder where Egypt, and Saudi Arabia get their F-16s and M1a2 Abrams' from?... OOOOOHHHHHH YEAAAAAHHHH... the United States..... hmmmmmmmmm
Fact: Non-palestinians have killed tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Palestinians.
Fact: The Arab kingdom of Jordan, and the Arab state of Egypt both occupied the West Bank and Gaza strip for 18 Years, and yet never set up any semblence of a state for the Palestinians.
Fact: Israel is the only democracy in the middle east, all other Arab nations are either Kingdoms, or dictatorships.
Fact: Arabs in Israel have more rights than in any other Arab nation.
Arab nations are listed as some of the worst abusers of human rights in the world.
Conclusion: The non-palestinian Arab nations do not care one red cent for the Palestinians other than to use them as political and sacrificial pawns against Israel.
Here, I made a few corrections.
Fact: Israelis have killed tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Palestinians.
Fact: The Arab kingdom of Jordan, and the Arab state of Egypt both occupied the West Bank and Gaza strip for 18 Years, and yet never had the chance to set up any semblence of a state for the Palestinians due to conflicts with israel.
Fact: Israel is a Jewish state passing itself off as a democracy.
Fact: Palestinians in land occupied by Israel have less rights than in any other Arab nation.
Israel is listed as one of of the worst abusers of human rights in the world.
That should clear things up.
And quit knocking Stalin, give credit where credit is due.
Stalin was one of the world's greatest leaders. He industrialized the Soviet Union and made it a major world power both industrial and militarily, rivalled only by the US. He also defeated Hitler and the Nazis during WW2.
Fact: Israelis have killed tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Palestinians.
Fact: The Arab kingdom of Jordan, and the Arab state of Egypt both occupied the West Bank and Gaza strip for 18 Years, and yet never had the chance to set up any semblence of a state for the Palestinians due to conflicts with israel.
Fact: Israel is a Jewish state passing itself off as a democracy.
Fact: Palestinians in land occupied by Israel have less rights than in any other Arab nation.
Israel is listed as one of of the worst abusers of human rights in the world.
That should clear things up.
And quit knocking Stalin, give credit where credit is due.
Stalin was one of the world's greatest leaders. He industrialized the Soviet Union and made it a major world power both industrial and militarily, rivalled only by the US. He also defeated Hitler and the Nazis during WW2.
You miss my point here obviously... I dont proclaim Israel's innocence... I proclaim Arab guilt. Specifically in the context of proclaiming to care for Palestinian rights when in reality they only care about the Palestinians as political pawns.
Oh please! So when their Jordanians made their plans to establish a "Palestinian province of Jordan" in the west bank... that was because of their conflict with Israel?!.... Again stating the blatantly stupid.
Democracy is the system of government by which the people make the decisions by voting and/or electing representatives. Israeli-Arabs have the right to vote, and to be elected to public office. There are several Arab legislators in the Israeli Knesset(parliament).
Israel is a democracy.
Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are citzens of the Palestinian Authority, not of Israel...
Israel's record is stellar when compared to countries like Syria... who oddly enough chaired the Human Rights committee of the UN not too long ago...
riiiiight
And the millions of Russians he killed in his paranoid purges?....
I mean if Hitler had won the war, life in Germany would have been wonderful.... should we give him credit as a great leader of history?.... Powerful... yes... great?.... I think not
-Max
P.S. this thread is about Iraq, not about Israel.
Violet:
I doubt you will get many converts to the "Stalin is great" theme. Perhaps you might quote some famous historian, like Schlesinger, who made that evaluation?
I don't think so. The notion seems pretty absurd.
You make some valid points about the Palestinians, but Arafat is so terrible and badly missed an opportunity for peace just a few years ago. The Palestinians should be throwing his butt out the door. Of course, I feel the same way about Sharon. The U.S. needs to put more pressure on both parties and be fair about it. But Bush is unwilling to do that. He just turns a blind eye to all the abuses and publicly decries Arafat and says nothing about Sharon. This is the nub of the problem. Bush just seems disengaged from serious peace-making attempts.
-Robert
I doubt you will get many converts to the "Stalin is great" theme. Perhaps you might quote some famous historian, like Schlesinger, who made that evaluation?
I don't think so. The notion seems pretty absurd.You make some valid points about the Palestinians, but Arafat is so terrible and badly missed an opportunity for peace just a few years ago. The Palestinians should be throwing his butt out the door. Of course, I feel the same way about Sharon. The U.S. needs to put more pressure on both parties and be fair about it. But Bush is unwilling to do that. He just turns a blind eye to all the abuses and publicly decries Arafat and says nothing about Sharon. This is the nub of the problem. Bush just seems disengaged from serious peace-making attempts.
-Robert
Nuke? C'mon Max, you don't have a clue.... Who is going to nuke us? This is the kind of overstatement and hyperbole the neocons make, yet you say you are not a neocon, but a Foreign Policy Hawk. (Does that come with a uniform and epaulettes?) Anyway, if someone nukes us the ball game is over and that's why they can't nuke us. America would tear them limb from limb and eradicate them and their progeny from the face of the earth for eternity. I have no doubt about it. The next country or group that uses nukes will either be committing suicide or will destroy humanity.
-Robert, a Foreign Policy Strudel
-Robert, a Foreign Policy Strudel
Ryan
Lifer
- Oct 31, 2000
- 27,519
- 2
- 81
Hindsight is 20/20. Bush said that this was going to happen months ago when he declared the war was over - he said it would be a hard, long, and tumultuous fight until we would be able to pull out or Iraq, yet people still cheered him on. Why is this surprising? We are not going to be out of Iraq for years, and this administration as admitted that from the beginning.
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