Is 'the American Dream' a pack of lies? Can one really make it to the top?

[JACKHAMMER]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
TAnd what makes you so certain that they're "greedy" and not just after whatever happiness they deem suitable for themselves?

From the dictionary "Excessively desirous of acquiring or possessing, especially wishing to possess more than what one needs or deserves" When those who have are only after more, and those who have not continusouly have less, that is called GREED. Just think of that recent minimum wage bill, the greedy wanted to cap the wage low and then tacked a multi-billion dollar relief bill on for the rich.

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: yllus
Don't take "the top" too narrowly, guys. Admittedly, I mixed the idea of the American Dream in a little erroneously, but you get the picture - the multi-millionaire club.

By the way, according to Forbes, seven of the top ten richest people in the world are self-made billionaires. Not quite the shadowy inherited old money we're supposed to despise.

Wow, that net worth figure falls off pretty fast. Thank goodness 300 million Americans can work hard and all end up with that kind of bank!

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: JACKHAMMER
From the dictionary "Excessively desirous of acquiring or possessing, especially wishing to possess more than what one needs or deserves" When those who have are only after more, and those who have not continusouly have less, that is called GREED. Just think of that recent minimum wage bill, the greedy wanted to cap the wage low and then tacked a multi-billion dollar relief bill on for the rich.

You're neglecting to explain a number of things.

a) What is the definition of excess? Is this not relative from person to person?
b) Who defines what someone needs or deserves?

(The minimum wage bill is irrelevant to this discussion, especially considering that if the minimum wage goes up, those same employers will probably promptly up their margins to make the same amount of profits again - or they'll slim down their workforce. Either way, it's not about to be very useful.)

Originally posted by: Thera

Originally posted by: yllus
Don't take "the top" too narrowly, guys. Admittedly, I mixed the idea of the American Dream in a little erroneously, but you get the picture - the multi-millionaire club.

By the way, according to Forbes, seven of the top ten richest people in the world are self-made billionaires. Not quite the shadowy inherited old money we're supposed to despise.

Wow, that net worth figure falls off pretty fast. Thank goodness 300 million Americans can work hard and all end up with that kind of bank!

Why couldn't they? Not all 300 million can, but that's hardly an excuse to declare the entire idea a lie.

 

[Moonbeam]

We who dies with the most toys wins, they say which is tough if all you can do is mine and skin.

 

[LunarRay]

I never thought the 'American Dream' was to make it to THE top but, rather, to pursue the objective unfettered. Each able to achieve to the level of their ability...

IMO.. I have achieved the American Dream and not one bit of it is measured in dollars and cents.. it is the intangible knowledge that I am now what I've dreamed I could always aspire to.... (aside from being alive still.. hehehhe)

 

[shira]

I think most of the posters in this thread are missing Moore's point.

Moore is not saying that achieving real wealth through hard work is impossible. What he's saying is that fiscal policies that focus on increasing the chance that hard work will lead to real wealth are not in the financial interest of the vast majority of Americans who will never achieve such wealth; that "playing up" the American dream is just propaganda to fool those not already at the top into going along with those policies; and that such policies end up favoring the very few at the expense of the very many.

 

[Blazin Trav]

More is kinda biased... take what he says and writes with a grain of salt. His stuff usually overexaggerates and is overblown.

 

[5150Joker]

You can become a millionaire in this country if you have the right connections and know what you're doing. There's this 23 year old kid here that opened up a mortgage refinance company and he's got a brand new lamborghini.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: fallenangel99
Yes, hard work can push you to the top. Look at all the Asian immigrants. They came to this country with a little bit of money, got an education (or got the education in their origin country), worked hard, and now have good jobs, even better than the average American's.

How many Asian people do you know that are on welfare?? or beg on the streets?? THe average Asian family probably has MORE in savings/checking than the average American (of course, not counting BIll Gates or Buffet!)

It bothers me when people start expecting the Gov't to help them via food stamps or free money. If they can come to AMerica and make something out of nothing, then so can everyone else... well.. maybe not really.

Dude Asians get rich because 30 of them live in the same 2 bedroom apartment--my cousin had the unfortunate experience of renting his 3 bedroom house out to an Asian family that ended up inviting all their relatives to live with them and once they finally left, the place was so damn filthy that it smelled like something died in there. Then they use all the money they make and buy a dry cleaning business or open some Chinese take out restaurant. People that have been established in this country for a few generations don't have that kind of support or advantage because America encourages individualism rather than a rigid family structure that requires the entire extended family to live together. Even Asians that have been here a few generations no longer live together in tight knit family groups like their grandparents did.