Kind of funny considering you'll probably never reach out and touch someone other than a close friend ( and with your hands ) might I add.
Kind of funny considering you'll probably never reach out and touch someone other than a close friend ( and with your hands ) might I add.
Yea, but you should be practicing with hte gun you'll be using for defense. Familiarity with the grip and all that. Although, you should also be shooting with what you'll use for defense, but oh well.
9mm for me!
I'm sorry, but I would have to imagine most bullets (with gunpowder) can pierce a ski jacket. But then again I'm no specialist at guns. I have used .22LR and those things are pretty dangerous IMHO.
I conceal carry on occasion and I carry a 1911A1. Sucker's big, but I know how to handle it and I know it packs a punch. A .22 would be a lot easier to carry, but compared to a .45 with hollow-point ammo, it's suitable only for tin cans.
And to the naysayers, there IS a difference between a .22 round and a .45 round, and stopping power can make a huge difference if you hit someone in an extremity or in a non-vital area of center body mass.
And to the naysayers, there IS a difference between a .22 round and a .45 round, and stopping power can make a huge difference if you hit someone in an extremity or in a non-vital area of center body mass.
*sigh* it's the same thing.. I have shot .22 before and 9mm.. point is if you shoot someone, they're probably not going to keep coming at you.
I don't think most muggers will continue when you have a .22 in their face. Now if you shoot and they're still lunging at you, maybe they had serious issues with you like you were worth $1 million on their hitlist or something.
Hello, if you were shot, would you be continuing your attack at someone who can unload another 6 rounds before you can even touch them?
Ok, maybe if you're Arnold you would continue your attack, but probably not.
You probably need .40 stopping power if you have 5 guys that are ready to kill you and the mafia is after you, but personal defense and .22 is FINE. If you hit center of mass, you're going to be doing a terrific job in screwing them up. If you really suck and hit the wrong areas, then yea you're probably screwed--especially if you're just going to fire once and think you can laugh at them cuz they're dead. You would probably be double or triple tapping with ANY pistol you have, be it a .45 or .22. By the time you double tap them in the chest, are they still going to be lunging at you? Not at full speed I'm sure, and not with 100% physical ability. I'm sure just stepping aside or taking a few steps back, and you would be fine at that stage..
Sure with the .45 maybe they'll be dead in the next 30 seconds, but with a .22, they'll be lying there pretty screwed up. In either case, you're safe.
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
This is where many gun discussions with 'wannabe' gun toters go amiss.
In a stressed situation, most are not going to remove their weapon and pull off a 'head shot' while being assailed.
Many can be hit with a .22 or sometimes even larger round in these panic/adrenaline type situations and not even know it...
The larger caliber weapon improves your chances at a disabling shot.
A guy facing 10-20-life that you now have seen and could probably identify, will probably take his odds on a .22, or even higher powered gun...you want to make sure you stop him.
Most don't understand that all of life is not just Starbucks and talking on their cell driving to work and back each day.
In a stressed situation, most are not going to remove their weapon and pull off a 'head shot' while being assailed.
Many can be hit with a .22 or sometimes even larger round in these panic/adrenaline type situations and not even know it...
The larger caliber weapon improves your chances at a disabling shot.
A guy facing 10-20-life that you now have seen and could probably identify, will probably take his odds on a .22, or even higher powered gun...you want to make sure you stop him.
Most don't understand that all of life is not just Starbucks and talking on their cell driving to work and back each day.
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
most are not planning when they pull their gun out on the next guy passing them by as if it were CounterStrike or Quake or something.
By the time you are ready to try to pull out your weapon, chances are you are already being assaulted. You may get off 6 shots, but chances are even pro's will miss some of those if not most...a knife is much more effective close up on the street.
In your home, chances are when you hear a break-in...it's probably time to go hunting. The odds change a bit in this situation...if you have kids and/or someone that may come in that is not in the same bed as you...then you better hope you are firing on a real perp instead of little Johnny sneaking back in or a buddy looking for a place to crash.
thecoolnessrune
Diamond Member
- Jun 8, 2005
- 9,673
- 583
- 126
Apart from the endless "stopping power" debate, the main reason .22 is unacceptable for self-defense is that rimfire ammo is much less reliable than centerfire. This isn't much of a problem when you're shooting squirrils or soda cans - but if you're going to point a gun at an armed intruder you want a round that'll go bang EVERY TIME. Not 90% of the time, not 95%, not 98%. The p22 is a cool little pistol but it's a terrible choice for self defense - those things jam constantly, and if you jam a rimfire semi, you might as well just throw it at the BG and run. At least with a revolver you can just keep pulling the trigger till you get to a round that'll fire, but then you're shooting a revolver DA - good luck hitting anything with that.
I have a 9mm Sig 226 that's gone thousands of rounds without a single misfire or jam. That's the one I keep for self defense. A .45 or 10mm or whatever might do more theoretical mechanical damage to a theoretical attacker under certain hypothetical circumstances, but I know how to shoot the Sig and I know the Sig'll shoot. That's what you want.
I have a 9mm Sig 226 that's gone thousands of rounds without a single misfire or jam. That's the one I keep for self defense. A .45 or 10mm or whatever might do more theoretical mechanical damage to a theoretical attacker under certain hypothetical circumstances, but I know how to shoot the Sig and I know the Sig'll shoot. That's what you want.
soydios
Platinum Member
- Mar 12, 2006
- 2,708
- 0
- 0
Anything larger than 9mm for a concealed carry pistol, and I feel that it becomes too large to handle (I can't access all the levers without moving my hand). Anything smaller than a 9mm, and I feel that I wouldn't be making a big enough hole to stop 'em.
For rifles, .223 (5.56) is nice for under 300 meters, but for over 300m, you want a .30-06 (7.62x39).
For rifles, .223 (5.56) is nice for under 300 meters, but for over 300m, you want a .30-06 (7.62x39).
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,795
- 84
- 91
eh, what you need is a samuri sword. if they get close enough u whip that out!
course this is all assuming the guy gets that close to you in the first place, unless its some drugged up psycho normal people won't keep coming once they are shot. and well most of us aren't worried about someones crazed revenge where they want to breath their last breath to kill u, i haven't pissed someone off that bad. as for pcp crazed attacker, whats the odds of that? like being struck by lightning?
and some dude said the m16 was bad? at such close range i'd think it would smash any bones it hit.
course this is all assuming the guy gets that close to you in the first place, unless its some drugged up psycho normal people won't keep coming once they are shot. and well most of us aren't worried about someones crazed revenge where they want to breath their last breath to kill u, i haven't pissed someone off that bad. as for pcp crazed attacker, whats the odds of that? like being struck by lightning?
and some dude said the m16 was bad? at such close range i'd think it would smash any bones it hit.
jlee
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2001
- 48,518
- 223
- 106
What are the odds of someone going into your kid's school and shooting him/her?
Hell, what are the odds of any *unexpected occurance*?
Another +1 for a larger caliber...ever see barrel size of a .22? It looks like a BB gun. Ever see a .45? More like a cannon.
Actually, I think to most, life doesn't mean barricading your home and outfitting everyone in your house with weapons. Where the F do you people live?
BrunoPuntzJones
Lifer
- Feb 24, 2001
- 14,513
- 4
- 81
Yes, an North American Arms .22mag.
Something is better than nothing. I often don't want something poking or sticking me or being uncomfortable. That slips in the pocket, is smaller than a cell phone, and a lot louder
Originally posted by: CadetLee
Who's talking about barricading homes? By looking at us, I guarantee you wouldn't be able to tell who is armed and who is not. What part of "concealed carry" do you not understand?
I have actually sat here for 5 minutes trying to comprehend what you just wrote. In my experience, a conversation involves two people that respond to each other. Your reply was the most moronic thing I have read on this forum.
jlee
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2001
- 48,518
- 223
- 106
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Yes, an North American Arms .22mag.
Something is better than nothing. I often don't want something poking or sticking me or being uncomfortable. That slips in the pocket, is smaller than a cell phone, and a lot louder
:thumbsup:
Everything else being equal, would you carry a .22 over a larger caliber? Example Walther P22 (.22lr) vs Sig P239 (9mm).
357 magneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezy
I'd rather have one and not need it rather than need one and not have it
I'd rather have one and not need it rather than need one and not have it
jlee
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2001
- 48,518
- 223
- 106
I doubt that. Try reading what you posted earlier.Originally posted by: Jack Ryan
Originally posted by: CadetLee
Who's talking about barricading homes? By looking at us, I guarantee you wouldn't be able to tell who is armed and who is not. What part of "concealed carry" do you not understand?
I have actually sat here for 5 minutes trying to comprehend what you just wrote. In my experience, a conversation involves two people that respond to each other. Your reply was the most moronic thing I have read on this forum.
You stated that, to most, life doesn't consist of barricading homes. Fine. Which one of us here has mentioned barricading homes and outfitting everyone with weapons? From what I read out of alkemyst's post, he's saying that -- sometimes -- crap happens, whether you expect it or not. Might as well be prepared. You are implying that people are building bunkers out of their houses -- I am saying that you wouldn't even be able to tell which of us is armed.
If you can't understand this, do us all a favor and never purchase a firearm.
You're taking examples to the extreme.
Specop 007
Diamond Member
- Jan 31, 2005
- 9,454
- 0
- 0
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Yes, an North American Arms .22mag.
Something is better than nothing. I often don't want something poking or sticking me or being uncomfortable. That slips in the pocket, is smaller than a cell phone, and a lot louder
Kel-Tec has that little .380. P38 or some such.
exdeath
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2004
- 13,679
- 10
- 81
.308 = 7.62x51mm
.30-06 = 7.62x63mm.
7.62x39mm is the stubby soviet round (AK-47 / SKS) and has worse ballistics than the 5.56x45mm/.223.
There is also 7.62x25mm Tok which is a nasty handgun round the the 357 sig wishes it could be.
And yes, .223 (more specifically the hotter 5.56 NATO M193 and M855 rounds) are nasty under about 250 yards and create wounds disproportionate to the caliber (esp M193). Basically the bullet hits at such velocity that it shatters into a snowstorm of micro projectiles mid tumble due to high stresses on the jacketing. So you have hundreds of lead and copper splinters micro perferating tissue in a radial pattern, followed by the normal rifle shockwave. The effect on flesh is basically a 'rip at the dotted lines' effect, but this effect is only observed above a threshold velocity sufficient to create the required normal forces to shatter the round on impact; thus the range limit. Beyond that range and thus under the threshold velocity, it behaves like a 'normal' bullet in which case all other rules apply (ie: you want a bigger bullet).
Anything over 250 yards I'll take a .308 in M-14 or AR-10.
jlee
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2001
- 48,518
- 223
- 106
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Yes, an North American Arms .22mag.
Something is better than nothing. I often don't want something poking or sticking me or being uncomfortable. That slips in the pocket, is smaller than a cell phone, and a lot louder
Kel-Tec has that little .380. P38 or some such.
P3AT, I believe?
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