Is the .22 caliber even close to being adaquate for self defense use?

[spikespiegal]

The main object is to stop the attack immediately.

Which brings up an interesting point about the .223 and the M-16.

We've taken pretty much every firearm made to the gun range, and while it's fun to shoot, the M-16 is the last gun I'd want for self sefense. At 200meters you can smack a standing bowling pin right in the middle with an M-16, and if you hit it right it will wobble but not fall down. The round is simply too small and moving too fast, which means your assailant will likely bleed death, but still be able to return fire. 9mms, 7.62x39 Ruskies, and other larger but slower moving rounds are another story, especially under 100meters. .308 and larger infantry rifles will take a limb off.

For home defense I'd take a 9mm Highpoint carbine or shotgun over a 45...with no disrespect to the 45. I'm simply concerned the OTHER guy also has a .45

Just a bit of trivia about the .22 round, but when you see action movies shooting up cars and making dramatic holes, those are often made with slow moving .22 rounds because they mushroom so easily. Your typical steel jacketed military round or M-16 barely makes holes large enough to see in sheet metal.

.50 cal and frozen turkeys are fun as well.

 

[ultimatebob]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
12 GA shotgun , pump action is good

As long as you're using a slug or buckshot, anyway. Birdshot will just tick the guy off.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob

Originally posted by: FoBoT
12 GA shotgun , pump action is good

As long as you're using a slug or buckshot, anyway. Birdshot will just tick the guy off.

Wanna bet?

 

[spikespiegal]

Dead men tell no lies in court.

"Never point a gun at anything unless you intend to destroy it"

Yep.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: boredhokie
I thought for home defense a shotgun was best? You don't have to aim as carefully and you're less likely to punch a hole through the wall and kill a bystander. Why would you want a handgun in this situation?

Because a handgun is small and lightweight, less recoil, less hassle and depending on caliber plenty of stopping power.

I still insist that a .22LR is more deadly than people realize. At close range and center mass without access to immediate medical attention you'll have issues.

<-----works at a Trauma hospital....

Only problem is that it's not going to penetrate much and can easily be deflected by bone (making a heart shot less likely to succeed). I know for a fact that a .22 (even a high velocity one) won't penetrate a hard drive casing, for instance, and multiple layers of clothing topped with a leather jacket might give one problems.

Can it be lethal? Of course. Is a 9mm more lethal? Amazingly so with the right ammo.

I use a 9mm Steyr M1 with Federal HydraShoks. Extremely unlikely someone is going to survive a center mass shot with one of those.

Oh I know that dont get me wrong. I'm not saying it's more powerful than <insert caliber>

But most of our GSW patients are close range generally <15 feet. Saw a young guy last week, hit with a .22 pistol from about 5 feet. Blew out half of his wrist, nearly lost his hand.

But GSWs are such finicky things. I've seen someone take a 9mm center mass and be released 2 days later, no major organs hit, only lost enough blood to warrent 1 unit of PRBCs. Heck I've seen a guy take 12 gauge 00 Buckshot from 10 feet away to the abdomen......and live. Took marathon surgery and somewhere in the order of 50+ units of blood and plasma. But he lived.

Conversely. Seen someone take a .22 to the chest, live make it all the way to the floor then code on the floor and die. It happens.

I don't doubt your experience, but the original topic was about the ability of the .22 to be used for home defense, which invites comparison to larger calibers.

I've heard of .223 rounds putting nice small holes in people and not really doing anything. I've also heard of the same round completely shredding someone from their foot to the shoulder by traveling along the bones.

Then again, there's video out there of people (Taliban) being hit by .50cal sniper rounds. It's quite grotesque. I'm not sure if I brought that CD back with me from Baghdad or not.

 

[lokiju]

9mm

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

IIRC that video is actually groundhogs

 

[themusgrat]

The reason police don't carry .22s is because they can't shoot worth a flip. A .22 is enough for self defense, you don't intend to start a war do you? And if you make sure that some street gangster doesn't want to start a war with you, a .22 is enough. The Mossad still uses them......

 

[crumpet19]

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
How many of you people saying a .22 is ineffective have actually shot someone? Everyone's a freaking armchair Dirty Harry!
I'll bet that a few small bullets will hurt enough to prevent someone from stabbing me.

As far as the whole killing thing goes.. I'd rather not have someone's death on my conscience, regardless of whether he was trying to kill me, steal my lunch money, or whatever. I'm not about to hand out death sentences to strung out druggies or thieves who have no intent to kill.

ALWAYS aim to kill when using a firearm in self defence. Dead men tell no lies in court. Two in the chest, and one in the head is the way it should always be.

If someone threatens me to the point I am in fear for my life, I am going to do everything in my power to kill them immediately, not pussy around with shooting them to "deter" them from the attack. My life in infinately more valuable then theirs.

And yes, a 22LR is very underpowered for self defence. I use a 10mm for concealed carry myself.

Why the 10mm? why not just go with a .40? .40 is generally more commonly available. and arent the ballistics similar?

 

[eldorado99]

For home defense I don't trust anything smaller than a 40 megaton warhead.

 

[Kirby]

What I use (except I have a wood stock).

 

[judasmachine]

12 Guage loaded with deer slugs?

 

[VanTheMan]

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Originally posted by: RelaxTheMind
Taebo video = $9.95 + TAX

The video alone isn't going to do crap.

Never been hit in the head by a VHS tape that was thrown at you, eh?

I use a .357 Mag Blackhawk for home defense. A .22 has a good chance of stopping/deterring an assailant, but a .357 Mag has a much better chance. When it's my life vs an intruder's life, I'd rather have too much power than not enough.

 

[scootermaster]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: pontifex
you've been making a lot of gun threads altely Jedi. You thinking about getting one or what?

thinking about it.. i like target practice at the range, but the ferengi in me hates paying anywhere close to $10 per box.

the .22 is $1 per box. that got my lobes perked.

but the 2nd part for me in owning a gun is self defense (street + home).

if a .22 has a hard time penetrating a puffy down ski jacket at 20feet, then it's close to useless for self defense.

looking for the optimum in price/performance bullet in an automatic.

automatic because i rather have 15 shots than the 6 in a revolver. in a combat situation, my acuracury will probably drop DRASTICALLY as compared to a range.

edit:
I rather have too many bullets than come up 1 short

You get the crap kicked out of you or something?

 

[Squisher]

You don't want the guy to bleed to death 10 minutes after you shot him.

.40 cal is my choice.

 

[Colt45]

120mm tank gun ftw.

 

[Calin]

Originally posted by: boredhokie
I thought for home defense a shotgun was best? You don't have to aim as carefully and you're less likely to punch a hole through the wall and kill a bystander. Why would you want a handgun in this situation?

It might be easier to aim a shotgun - but the spread of the shot at a room's size is at the order of several inches. Shotguns are not somewhat directional grenades - you still have to aim in order to hit.
Handguns could be quicker to aim (compared with a long barreled shotgun), and you can shoot faster (in case of several targets). Also, reloading a handgun is quicker than reloading a shotgun (using speedloaders or full magazines).
Each weapon has its place

As an answer to the thread, a "loud sounding" weapon might be more effective for self defense as a more quiet one... as for rounds capacity to defend you, the worst case is when it needs to stop someone that runs to knife you - small caliber might not stop them in time. For people that maybe want to rob you, any gun is enough deterent

 

[nsafreak]

I personally don't own a handgun. My uncle has a .50 cal desert eagle for home defense along with his rifles. Personally if I was to get a firearm for home defense it would be a 12 gauge shotgun. If I had to get a pistol I'd probably go with the good old .357 Mag.

 

[judasmachine]

Actually I just use a Dingo, and a mean old Chow/Shephard mix for home security.

 

[BoberFett]

20 gauge in a sawed off side by side double barrel

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: JEDI
box of 50 9mm bullets = $10
brick (10 boxes = 500 bullets) of .22 caliber = $10

HUGE price difference, especially if you're on the range target shooting.

If the .22 isnt close to being an adaquate self defense bullet, then what's the smallest caliber you would use for an automatic weapon?

.40

 

[kingtas]

.357 with Federal 125 grain hollow point FTW. 1 shot to the torso = 99% first shot take down.

Unless you hit something vital, you need big hole or big damage by shock wave to cause massive bleeding for the quick takedown.

To quote Ted Nugent "You don't assault someone with a hand gun. You use a shotgun".

 

[pontifex]

Jedi,
In all seriousness, if you want a good balance between price and performance i think the 9mm is the best. If you have a local Dick's Sporting Goods, they regularly have sales on ammo and you can get 9mm FMJ at like $6-7 a box.

 

[Nyati13]

Originally posted by: themusgrat
The reason police don't carry .22s is because they can't shoot worth a flip. A .22 is enough for self defense, you don't intend to start a war do you? And if you make sure that some street gangster doesn't want to start a war with you, a .22 is enough. The Mossad still uses them......

The Mossad uses silenced .22 in assassinations, and shoot the person in the back of the head unexpectedly. That is completely different than facing a hiped up crook who just busted down your door, and is charged up on adrenaline and expecting a fight.

 

[Nyati13]

Originally posted by: crumpet19

Why the 10mm? why not just go with a .40? .40 is generally more commonly available. and arent the ballistics similar?

.40 is more available, by a large margin, and cheaper, that's very true.

The ballistics are nothing alike. 10mm is well above the best that .40 can do.