Is speeding really all that bad?

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manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
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Originally posted by: Abel007
It is a simple fact that lower speeds equals more time to react to something ahead of you.

A 55 MPH zone is there for other motorists and pedestrians alike. Generally 55 MPH zones have side roads galore and/or the occasional pedestrian crossing. Other speed limit zones are there for reason as well, possibly heavier pedestrian traffic or less therefore the speeds increase. Speeding has a huge factor in accidents if anyone wants to admit it or not. We all speed. We all take a risk. Such is life.

That is all.

It doesn't really matter if you're matching the speed limit perfectly if you're tailgating people and can't drive worth a damn, anyway.

I'm pretty sure an idiot going 55 and an idiot going 65 are both going to cause an accident someday.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,476
3,976
126
Originally posted by: manowar821
I'm pretty sure an idiot going 55 and an idiot going 65 are both going to cause an accident someday.
That is true. But the idiot going 65 MPH will have 40% more destructive kinetic energy ripping apart his vehicle and possibly himself or innocent bystanders.

 

glugglug

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2002
5,340
1
81
Other interesting statistics:
87% of all statistics are made up on the spot. The other 13% are outright lies.

But more seriously about this one:

  1. The NTSB, contrary to their name, couldn't give a rat's ass about "safety", and is more concerned with the "revenue enhancement" that comes from speeding tickets. Their surveys are of course biased to support this, and more importantly....
  1. The NTSB guidelines for setting speed limits, which almost all states use, aside from the low recommended highway limits, say that the "limits" should be intentionally set low, and they should keep lowering them until at least 85% of all drivers on the road are going above the limit because they find it too slow. (But if MOREthan 85% of the drivers on the road are speeding because 65mph is too slow in the middle of nowhere, they say it still shouldn't get raised above the max highway guidelines).

Based on this enforcement of limits which 85 percent of all drivers should be exceeding, that means the chance of them claiming speeding is "involved" in a random fatality would be 97.75% if the distribution of speeding and non-speeding drivers was uniform. (If you pick 2 drivers at random, since each has an 85% chance of speeding, the chance of neither one speeding is only 2.25% (0.15 x 0.15).)

Remember, if only 30.4 percent of accidents "involve" speeding, that means 69.6% DON'T. But if you pick 2 random cars on the road, the chance of neither exceeding the limit is only 2.25%, and those 2.25% of the pairs of drivers are accounting for 69.6% of the fatalities, which tells us a non-speeder is more than 30 times MORE likely to be involved in a fatality than a speeder.
Given that fact, the non-speeders are involved in an incredibly disproportionate number of the fatal accidents, since they don't know how to drive.

 

kami333

Diamond Member
Dec 12, 2001
5,110
2
76
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: manowar821
I'm pretty sure an idiot going 55 and an idiot going 65 are both going to cause an accident someday.
That is true. But the idiot going 65 MPH will have 40% more destructive kinetic energy ripping apart his vehicle and possibly himself or innocent bystanders.

So instead of focusing on not letting idiots have any destructive kinetic energy in the first place, we should focus on how to limit it? We seriously need better drivers ed in this country.
 

hanoverphist

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2006
9,867
23
76
Originally posted by: kami333
Originally posted by: hanoverphist
Originally posted by: kami333
Originally posted by: hanoverphist
Originally posted by: mariok2006
My friend just got a ticket for doing 85 in a 70 this weekend for being forced to pass on the right because d!ckheads are talking on their cellphone in the left lane.

that has got to be one of the dumbest statements ive ever read. your friend was FORCED to pass on the right because someone else was doing the speed limit. they call it a limit because its how fast they LIMIT you to driving. is that person on the cell phone supposed to speed up over the speed limit because your friend wants to go illegally faster? no one forced your friend to do 15 over, that was his/her own personal choice and they are going to pay the price for it. cant do the time, dont do the crime.

No, they are supposed to pull to the right lane. Most states have some variation of the "use left lane only for passing" law, too bad it is almost never enforced and most drivers are unaware of it. Depending on the state, even if the car coming from behind is speeding, you have a legal obligation to pull to the right lane.

when i was in traffic school (yes, for a speeding ticket camera, 54 in a 40, major intersection that has 6 lanes) the retired judge told us that speeding was a necessary evil that you may have to do to keep up with traffic so as to not make yourself a target for an accident. he also said that staying to the right for other people that were wanting to go faster wasnt necessarily a NEED to do thing. im not going to move just so some single asshat can go 15 mph faster than the rest of traffic when im already matching traffic flow at 10 or 12 over the limit. he said in that type of case you shouldnt have to move, because he was the hazard not you. i also told him i would give any cop that gave me a ticket for speeding to keep with the flow of traffic his name, and he said he was cool with that. ive taken traffic school 3 times in my 20 or so years of driving, and all three instructors said the same thing on the subject. the keep right applies to highways out of town here as far as i can tell, i havent seen any specification otherwise. so no, unless that cell phone user is going slower than the flow, i dont think he should have to move for your asshat friend that wants to speed.

Dude, where do you live that has an non-interstate with a 70mph speed limit?

i dont recall saying that we had any 70mph roads at all. i dont recall ever stating any speed limit specifically beyond the one i got a ticket in, actually. in town, everything on divided highway is 55 or 65. used to go to 75 at about dysart to the west, but now thats pushed farther west due to expansion of towns out that way. i dont have much problem doing 5 over the limit along with a ton of people, but there are always asshats weaving in and out of traffic trying to go 85 or so. they are a hazard, and i giggle when i see one pushed into a wall because they couldnt keep it under control. i generally stay with traffic tho, im not much of a speeder/ risk taker since i had kids.

when i get out of town on the highways, however, i stay to the right unless im going to actually pass someone. which usually doesnt happen, most of the time theres a steady inrush of people trying to hit 100 and passing everything.

edit: just occurred to me that you meant that i was saying we could do 70 in town... we have many divided highways throughout the city, criss-crossing all over the place. it is easy to hit a divided highway and run for hours without seeing a stoplight without actually leaving the phx-metro area. speed limits never get above 65 tho.
 

glugglug

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2002
5,340
1
81
Originally posted by: Imp
I've taken courses with highway design and pretty much every formula is based on a design speed. With that, they factor in average reaction times to design for curves and sight distances. There's a lot of thought put into it, so you're pretty much screwing yourself and others by going over. Maybe you're one of the 'above' average people it's designed for, but you're just screwing yourself and the cars in the pileup you cause. Or maybe just the guardrail and ditch you go into...

Edit: Correction: design speed != speed limit.

Most of the highways in this country were built shortly after WWII, long before the NTSB started their campaign for 55mph speed limits.

The speed limit on I-95 when it was originally constructed, for example, was actually 95mph. The design speed is well above this and takes into account that 85% should be exceeding that.
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: manowar821
I'm pretty sure an idiot going 55 and an idiot going 65 are both going to cause an accident someday.
That is true. But the idiot going 65 MPH will have 40% more destructive kinetic energy ripping apart his vehicle and possibly himself or innocent bystanders.

That was the case against NJ increasing the speed limit to 65 mph from 55 mph. And it's true. But followup studies showed that it had no adverse affect on the highway fatality rate here.
 

kami333

Diamond Member
Dec 12, 2001
5,110
2
76
Originally posted by: hanoverphist
Originally posted by: kami333
Originally posted by: hanoverphist
Originally posted by: kami333
Originally posted by: hanoverphist
Originally posted by: mariok2006
My friend just got a ticket for doing 85 in a 70 this weekend for being forced to pass on the right because d!ckheads are talking on their cellphone in the left lane.

that has got to be one of the dumbest statements ive ever read. your friend was FORCED to pass on the right because someone else was doing the speed limit. they call it a limit because its how fast they LIMIT you to driving. is that person on the cell phone supposed to speed up over the speed limit because your friend wants to go illegally faster? no one forced your friend to do 15 over, that was his/her own personal choice and they are going to pay the price for it. cant do the time, dont do the crime.

No, they are supposed to pull to the right lane. Most states have some variation of the "use left lane only for passing" law, too bad it is almost never enforced and most drivers are unaware of it. Depending on the state, even if the car coming from behind is speeding, you have a legal obligation to pull to the right lane.

when i was in traffic school (yes, for a speeding ticket camera, 54 in a 40, major intersection that has 6 lanes) the retired judge told us that speeding was a necessary evil that you may have to do to keep up with traffic so as to not make yourself a target for an accident. he also said that staying to the right for other people that were wanting to go faster wasnt necessarily a NEED to do thing. im not going to move just so some single asshat can go 15 mph faster than the rest of traffic when im already matching traffic flow at 10 or 12 over the limit. he said in that type of case you shouldnt have to move, because he was the hazard not you. i also told him i would give any cop that gave me a ticket for speeding to keep with the flow of traffic his name, and he said he was cool with that. ive taken traffic school 3 times in my 20 or so years of driving, and all three instructors said the same thing on the subject. the keep right applies to highways out of town here as far as i can tell, i havent seen any specification otherwise. so no, unless that cell phone user is going slower than the flow, i dont think he should have to move for your asshat friend that wants to speed.

Dude, where do you live that has an non-interstate with a 70mph speed limit?

i dont recall saying that we had any 70mph roads at all. i dont recall ever stating any speed limit specifically beyond the one i got a ticket in, actually. in town, everything on divided highway is 55 or 65. used to go to 75 at about dysart to the west, but now thats pushed farther west due to expansion of towns out that way. i dont have much problem doing 5 over the limit along with a ton of people, but there are always asshats weaving in and out of traffic trying to go 85 or so. they are a hazard, and i giggle when i see one pushed into a wall because they couldnt keep it under control. i generally stay with traffic tho, im not much of a speeder/ risk taker since i had kids.

when i get out of town on the highways, however, i stay to the right unless im going to actually pass someone. which usually doesnt happen, most of the time theres a steady inrush of people trying to hit 100 and passing everything.

edit: just occurred to me that you meant that i was saying we could do 70 in town... we have many divided highways throughout the city, criss-crossing all over the place. it is easy to hit a divided highway and run for hours without seeing a stoplight without actually leaving the phx-metro area. speed limits never get above 65 tho.

mariok2006's friend was driving on a road that had a 70mph speed limit so it was probably an interstate, and therefore from your own post the keep right law should apply, don't you think?

there are always asshats weaving in and out of traffic trying to go 85 or so. they are a hazard, and i giggle when i see one pushed into a wall because they couldnt keep it under control.

They may be asshats (yeah I think they are too) but if more people would follow keep right pass left, the less they would have to weave too.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,476
3,976
126
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
That was the case against NJ increasing the speed limit to 65 mph from 55 mph. And it's true. But followup studies showed that it had no adverse affect on the highway fatality rate here.
I don't know much about NJ. Could you post the data? Multi-state study: some raised limits and others didn't (see page 2). What happened: states that raised limits had an average of 9% increase in fatalities per year. States that didn't raise the limits had an average of a 7% DROP in fatalities per year. The drop probably corresponds to safer roads and vehicles in that time. Yet, despite those safety increases in the other states, raising the speed limit led to a significant change in fatalities. I'll let the data speak for itself.

Sure, we need safer roads and we need safer drivers. With those in place, we could raise speed limits in most areas safely. But until we can do that, we have to deal with lowered speed limits if you want safer roads. Also, remember the speed limit is set so that it is safe to drive in bad weather in most conditions and that if there is an accident, there is no major harm to the flow of traffic (ie safety isn't the only consideration). Thus, on a clear day it is safe to drive higher than the posted limit. But until we have electronic speed limit signs that change with the weather and traffic flow, we have to go with the lowest common denominator.
 

kami333

Diamond Member
Dec 12, 2001
5,110
2
76
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
That was the case against NJ increasing the speed limit to 65 mph from 55 mph. And it's true. But followup studies showed that it had no adverse affect on the highway fatality rate here.
I don't know much about NJ. Could you post the data? Multi-state study: some raised limits and others didn't (see page 2). What happened: states that raised limits had an average of 9% increase in fatalities per year. States that didn't raise the limits had an average of a 7% DROP in fatalities per year. The drop probably corresponds to safer roads and vehicles in that time. Yet, despite those safety increases in the other states, raising the speed limit led to a significant change in fatalities. I'll let the data speak for itself.

Sure, we need safer roads and we need safer drivers. With those in place, we could raise speed limits in most areas safely. But until we can do that, we have to deal with lowered speed limits if you want safer roads. Also, remember the speed limit is set so that it is safe to drive in bad weather in most conditions and that if there is an accident, there is no major harm to the flow of traffic (ie safety isn't the only consideration). Thus, on a clear day it is safe to drive higher than the posted limit. But until we have electronic speed limit signs that change with the weather and traffic flow, we have to go with the lowest common denominator.

They have variable speed limit signs, they just aren't wide spread. Probably costs too much. Usually they are the pet projects of transportation departments, they include stuff like traffic cameras, weather sensors, time dependant, etc and can have it independant for cars and trucks. Germany is pretty heavily invested in it. I think the Garden State or Jersey Turnpike has it but I've never seen the speed changed.
 

hanoverphist

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2006
9,867
23
76
Originally posted by: kami333
Originally posted by: hanoverphist
Originally posted by: kami333
Originally posted by: hanoverphist
Originally posted by: kami333
Originally posted by: hanoverphist
Originally posted by: mariok2006
My friend just got a ticket for doing 85 in a 70 this weekend for being forced to pass on the right because d!ckheads are talking on their cellphone in the left lane.

that has got to be one of the dumbest statements ive ever read. your friend was FORCED to pass on the right because someone else was doing the speed limit. they call it a limit because its how fast they LIMIT you to driving. is that person on the cell phone supposed to speed up over the speed limit because your friend wants to go illegally faster? no one forced your friend to do 15 over, that was his/her own personal choice and they are going to pay the price for it. cant do the time, dont do the crime.

No, they are supposed to pull to the right lane. Most states have some variation of the "use left lane only for passing" law, too bad it is almost never enforced and most drivers are unaware of it. Depending on the state, even if the car coming from behind is speeding, you have a legal obligation to pull to the right lane.

when i was in traffic school (yes, for a speeding ticket camera, 54 in a 40, major intersection that has 6 lanes) the retired judge told us that speeding was a necessary evil that you may have to do to keep up with traffic so as to not make yourself a target for an accident. he also said that staying to the right for other people that were wanting to go faster wasnt necessarily a NEED to do thing. im not going to move just so some single asshat can go 15 mph faster than the rest of traffic when im already matching traffic flow at 10 or 12 over the limit. he said in that type of case you shouldnt have to move, because he was the hazard not you. i also told him i would give any cop that gave me a ticket for speeding to keep with the flow of traffic his name, and he said he was cool with that. ive taken traffic school 3 times in my 20 or so years of driving, and all three instructors said the same thing on the subject. the keep right applies to highways out of town here as far as i can tell, i havent seen any specification otherwise. so no, unless that cell phone user is going slower than the flow, i dont think he should have to move for your asshat friend that wants to speed.

Dude, where do you live that has an non-interstate with a 70mph speed limit?

i dont recall saying that we had any 70mph roads at all. i dont recall ever stating any speed limit specifically beyond the one i got a ticket in, actually. in town, everything on divided highway is 55 or 65. used to go to 75 at about dysart to the west, but now thats pushed farther west due to expansion of towns out that way. i dont have much problem doing 5 over the limit along with a ton of people, but there are always asshats weaving in and out of traffic trying to go 85 or so. they are a hazard, and i giggle when i see one pushed into a wall because they couldnt keep it under control. i generally stay with traffic tho, im not much of a speeder/ risk taker since i had kids.

when i get out of town on the highways, however, i stay to the right unless im going to actually pass someone. which usually doesnt happen, most of the time theres a steady inrush of people trying to hit 100 and passing everything.

edit: just occurred to me that you meant that i was saying we could do 70 in town... we have many divided highways throughout the city, criss-crossing all over the place. it is easy to hit a divided highway and run for hours without seeing a stoplight without actually leaving the phx-metro area. speed limits never get above 65 tho.

mariok2006's friend was driving on a road that had a 70mph speed limit so it was probably an interstate, and therefore from your own post the keep right law should apply, don't you think?

there are always asshats weaving in and out of traffic trying to go 85 or so. they are a hazard, and i giggle when i see one pushed into a wall because they couldnt keep it under control.

They may be asshats (yeah I think they are too) but if more people would follow keep right pass left, the less they would have to weave too.

wow, this is getting huge! =P

and ya, that may signify all kinds of things with a 70mph limit. but i cant say for sure, since i dont know if it was in the city or out. im not going to assume anything. and yes youre right about the weaving. but wouldnt it be nice if they just realized they were asshats and stopped inconveniencing others with their mad driving skillz?
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Originally posted by: glugglug
(If you pick 2 drivers at random, since each has an 85% chance of speeding, the chance of neither one speeding is only 2.25% (0.15 x 0.15).)

Pretty good post overall, but I just wanted to note that since an accident can occur with only one car, you can't necessarily just use the 2.25% like you do a bit later on. I don't know the stats on how many accidents directly involve multiple cars (i.e. one cars hits another, not including one car hits something (tree, whatever) and another car hits it).
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,079
136
Originally posted by: FlashG
Speeding has never killed anyone.
It's the sudden stop. ;)
But......
How could you have a "sudden" stop, if you didnt speed? :p

Anyway, I'd like to quote a few lines from The Gumball Rally.
"55 miles an hour is dangerous."
"Its boring!"
"Thats why its dangerous. Its fast enough to kill you, but slow enough to make you think you're safe."

Or something to that effect.

 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
Speed doesn't kill, driving like an idiot does. Speeding on an empty stretch of highway hurts nobody.

:thumbsup:

Only time I speed really crazy is when I'm having fun on a flat straight stretch of road that I am familiar with in broad daylight with no side streets or turn offs, with nobody else on the road or in the car. There is a time and place for it. When you start coming up on traffic up ahead, its time to back out and blend back in, not weave in and out squeezing your way through at twice the speed of other vehicles. It's the difference in relative speed between vehicles that is important in vehicle-vehicle collisions, not the absolute ground-vehicle speed. Two people going 90+ can side swipe each other and there will be minimum damage provided the drivers stay in control and don't panic or overreact (that rules out 99% of your average Joe Driver)

Speeding isn't what causes accidents, it's idiots who fail to control their vehicle at those speeds. They don't understand that they absolutely cannot drive their car the same way at 90 mph as they do when its moving 25 mph, and that even still, no matter how skilled or experienced they are or think they are, random circumstances happen. A gust of wind, a unexpected new pothole on the road you've been down 1000 times, a wheel breaks lose on some less than 100% ideal pavement and you start going sideways, that guy in the Honda @ 25 pulling out in front of you @ 90 thinking hes going just as fast as you are with his spoiler, etc.

Also I hardly ever use my brakes unless coming to a complete stop. I can be going 90 down the freeway and come up on someone going 55 up ahead and somehow be doing 55 also by the time I am two seconds behind them, all without using brakes.
 

hanoverphist

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2006
9,867
23
76
Originally posted by: exdeath

Also I hardly ever use my brakes unless coming to a complete stop. I can be going 90 down the freeway and come up on someone going 55 up ahead and somehow be doing 55 also by the time I am two seconds behind them, all without using brakes.

i do this with my truck too, its easy with a manual transmission. problem ive seen with it tho, people behind you have no idea youre slowing down because most cant seem to gauge your speed dropping without those red lights turning on. i still use the engine to slow me down, but ill put the brakes on a bit so the people behind me can see im slowing down.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Originally posted by: hanoverphist
Originally posted by: exdeath

Also I hardly ever use my brakes unless coming to a complete stop. I can be going 90 down the freeway and come up on someone going 55 up ahead and somehow be doing 55 also by the time I am two seconds behind them, all without using brakes.

i do this with my truck too, its easy with a manual transmission. problem ive seen with it tho, people behind you have no idea youre slowing down because most cant seem to gauge your speed dropping without those red lights turning on. i still use the engine to slow me down, but ill put the brakes on a bit so the people behind me can see im slowing down.

Yeah, I'll tap the brake pedal just enough to flash the lights a few times if I'm slowing down too fast or the person behind me is too close. Especially if I'm trying to coast to a roll in time to catch a light going red to green without stopping, just in case the people in front don't get moving and I have to brake to a stop suddenly. If they are tailgating I'll just randomly tap the brakes every few seconds and make them constantly stop and accelerate until their foot starts getting tired and they back off :D

I love that though, lights been green for like 15+ seconds, you've been coasting and down shifting for at least a block expecting not to need to stop, then bam, dead stop. And there are only like 3 or 4 cars stopped at the light. WTF?
 

hanoverphist

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2006
9,867
23
76
Originally posted by: exdeath
If they are tailgating I'll just randomly tap the brakes every few seconds and make them constantly stop and accelerate until their foot starts getting tired and they back off :D

ive done this as well, the worst was coasting at 24mph on I-10 because this asswipe was riding my bumper so close and yelling, flipping me off at the same time. after getting bored with the 24mph, i stopped completely, got out of my truck and walked toward his car. ive never seen a toyota corolla burn so much rubber in my life. got a lot of bitchy people driving by honking and yelling at me to get out of the way at that point too. was a fun afternoon tho, even tho i let him turn me into one of the asshats.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: mariok2006
I want to see some statistics from Germany involving the Autobahn, where people can actually speed correctly.
QFT.

I bet most of the "speeding" accidents actually involved two dumbasses; the one speeding, and the one who caused the accident. :roll:

Speeding by itself does not cause very many accidents, IMO. Most people automatically adjust their speed based on driving conditions. If you can go 90, you can go 90.

It is when you throw everyone else on the road around you that you run into issues...

Having a speed limit is necessary to ensure uniformity, but IMO.. the number does not matter.


Agreed. I speed only when I feel I can do it safely, on open road for example.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Originally posted by: hanoverphist
Originally posted by: exdeath
If they are tailgating I'll just randomly tap the brakes every few seconds and make them constantly stop and accelerate until their foot starts getting tired and they back off :D

ive done this as well, the worst was coasting at 24mph on I-10 because this asswipe was riding my bumper so close and yelling, flipping me off at the same time. after getting bored with the 24mph, i stopped completely, got out of my truck and walked toward his car. ive never seen a toyota corolla burn so much rubber in my life. got a lot of bitchy people driving by honking and yelling at me to get out of the way at that point too. was a fun afternoon tho, even tho i let him turn me into one of the asshats.

Speaking off... almost got rear ended this evening as I left from work by an asshat following too close. Exactly the example I gave above, was coasting to lose speed approching traffic stopped at a light that had just turned green expecting the traffic in front of me to start moving on green by the time I got there, and I ended up coming to a complete stop by braking off the final 15-20 mph.

Anticipated asshat behind me being on the slow dar dar side, watched him in my mirror and heard him lock the brakes and start to skid. Let off the brake and scooted forward taking up some of the slack I left in front of me the moment his headlights were obscured by my trunk lid, putting a critical few inches that saved my bumper at the last second. Computer-like traffic processing awareness FTW.

What is it with people watching the car immediately in front of them and not paying attention to the 30 cars at a complete stop 100 yards ahead? Just because you are following someone going 90 doesn't mean you don't have to be ready to slow down or stop in the next 100 feet. I never pay attention to the car in front of me directly, I am looking two to three cars ahead to indirectly judge the car in front of me. One reason I dislike being behind large SUVs with opaque tinted windows, mini vans, utility trucks, etc. I like being able to pipeline events 100s of feet in front of me and I get claustrophobic when all I can see is the bumper or taillights immediately in front of me. Not having a clear view of the road ahead is the primary reason I pass.

It's the same confined uneasy cautious on the tip of my toes about to fall on my face feeling I get wearing NVDs when I can only see clearly just a few feet in front of me.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
11
81
This statistic is meaningless. If they set the speed limit everywhere to 10 mph then 99.9% of fatalities would be due to speeding.
 

t3h l337 n3wb

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2005
2,698
0
76
Originally posted by: RallyMaster
Originally posted by: joshsquall
Speeding on highways at 75-85 during normal conditions by an attentive driver is no more dangerous than driving 65.

115 mph on an empty, straight country road FTW.

You don't even have your license yet :p