Is something good because God loves it, or does God love it because it is good?

[datalink7]

This question came up in philosophy class today. Though I am an atheist, I thought it a very interesting question and would be interested to hear what people think. For things like this, I tend to forget some of my atheism for a bit and just argue the question (from one side or the other) just because it has piqued my interest. This means, in essense, don't fear that I am going to turn this into a religious bashing thread

I actually have to go now but will check back later.

 

[Hamburgerpimp]

It's neither.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Ever heard of the concept of Grace? It's a hard concept for people to grasp in a world full of cause and effect. Basically, Grace means God loves you no matter what you do or who you are.

 

[Wallydraigle]

Do you mean Judeo-Christian God, or just "Generic Higher Being" God? I believe in Genesis when the creation is being described, it mentions that God saw that it was good. This implies that God first made an observation, and then developed his feelings from it. That would mean that God loved it because it was good, and not the other way around. But if you mean something else, whatever.

 

[Kevin]

Originally posted by: datalink7
This question came up in philosophy class today. Though I am an atheist, I thought it a very interesting question and would be interested to hear what people think. For things like this, I tend to forget some of my atheism for a bit and just argue the question (from one side or the other) just because it has piqued my interest. This means, in essense, don't fear that I am going to turn this into a religious bashing thread

I actually have to go now but will check back later.

Is it just me, or could you be any more vague?

 

[stonecold3169]

This came up last year in my philosophy class as well, it's a staple I think.

I personally believe that God loves things that are good. Using the definition of "good" given to us in "Nikomachian Ethics", good is something that works for us to achieve our goals but is balanced enough to not cause an (significant) negatives. Now, obviously God will love whatever we do that fits his definition of "good". However, it is possible for what is good for us to not nessisarily be good for God.

Therefor, I contest that because good is different for everyone, that "Something is good because God loves it" is a contradiction.

 

[gopunk]

do you mean morality wise? i think it says in the bible that if someone is moral, it is because god was gracious enough to open their eyes.

 

[glenn1]

They're different aspects of the same concept. God = good, and good = God.

Think of it this way, what you're asking is akin to saying this....

"Is he male because he has a penis, or is a penis there because he's male?"

 

[TNTrulez]

Originally posted by: glenn1
They're different aspects of the same concept. God = good, and good = God.

Think of it this way, what you're asking is akin to saying this....

"Is he male because he has a penis, or is a penis there because he's male?"

The answer to that question is that the penis is there because he's a male.

 

[linuxboy]

datalink, Socrates provides a concrete argument against Euthyphro's position that should lead you to a solution. Socrates does provide one, later on, if you read his entire life's work, as do later schools of thought, including the soundness of men such as Adler.


Cheers !

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: linuxboy
datalink, Socrates provides a concrete argument against Euthyphro's position that should lead you to a solution. Socrates does provide one, later on, if you read his entire life's work, as do later schools of thought, including the soundness of men such as Adler.


Cheers !

I'm working on it now. I just finished Euthyphro today and am working on some of the other dialogues (sp?). It did, in fact, answer some of my questions

Sorry about being a little bit vague guys, I was in a hurry to get to class.

[Could be wrong because I haven't read whole bible] Another thing that was talked about is the idea of morality and religion. Should they be seperate issues? It says in the 10 commandments "Thou Shallt Not Kill" not "Thou Shallt Not Kill Because It Is Bad." So, does the fact that God said it is bad make it immoral, or are they just rules to follow? Or perhaps God said that one shouldn't do it because it is bad, independent of God.[/Could be wrong because I haven't read the whole bible]

From what I gathered, this was the case that Socrates was trying to make. That things are "good" and "bad" irregardless of God (actually in his case it would be "the gods.") And that God loves something because it is good, not that it becomes good because he loves it.

See the difference?

Not sure if I am explaining it very well. I still need to sort it out myself somewhat.

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: glenn1
They're different aspects of the same concept. God = good, and good = God.

Think of it this way, what you're asking is akin to saying this....

"Is he male because he has a penis, or is a penis there because he's male?"

Not quite. It is more like, at least to my understanding "Is it a penis because it is attached to the male, or is it attached to the male because it is a penis?"

Or, maybe more like "Is it a penis because it is attached to the male, or is it a penis irregardless of whether it is attached or not?"

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: glenn1
They're different aspects of the same concept. God = good, and good = God.

Think of it this way, what you're asking is akin to saying this....

"Is he male because he has a penis, or is a penis there because he's male?"

The connection between being male and having a penis has to do with biology and genetics. There is no connection, however, between "good" and "God's love", both of which are arbitrary concepts.

 

[Eli]

I think God loves it because it's good.

I mean.. Every being in the universe knows right from wrong.

 

[Moonbeam]

Well I would tend to say that God loves something because it's good but the concept of Grace got me thinking. If God loves us even if we are bad, does he love us because we are bad? It would seem so. But then we get the love the sinner not the sin stuff. I don't know if God said that, but assuming He operates that way he must love the good and hate, well lets say, not love the bad. So what ever is good God loves. So God loves it because it's good. But what is good. Who knows. Well God knows, so god is the boss when it comes to defining good and evil. That means that God is at cause and causes the existence of the good. God causes what He loves so the good is good because He loves it.

Alternatively there is no good and evil and no God. There is just pure awareness devoid of thought, the universe and its awareness mirrored image. I'd bet a fiver if I could see that I'd say it's good, if I was going to call it something.