Is saving yourself for marriage usually because...

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

We do not survive on faith alone. God doesn't give us all hard fact, nor does he call us to believe in something that isn't tangible around us. I would strongly encourage you, to read CS Lewis's "Mere Christianity".

It goes from a non-Christian perspective, and, in essence, systematically proves Christianity. Can be kind of dry, but it is an excellent read thus far for me.

As for the first part, all you need to know, then, is, that I embrace everything written in the Bible. EVERYTHING-- I fall short in my attempts to follow those goals, but I believe in them 100%.

-Kevin

There is nothing which proves any religion. Nor is there anything which completely disproves any religion. They all require and revolve around faith. Without faith, the religion ceases to exist. I realize that many believers think otherwise, but the bottom line is that if it were true then we would all be following a single religion just like we all follow any other scientific formula without the need for faith. What many believers of any particular religion deem as proof is always full of theories which happen to fit the available facts. That does not constitute as actual proof. That is just evidence supporting a theory which has yet to be proven.

Reread my post. When did I ever say that faith was not necessary? I merely said that faith is a major part of the equation but not the entire equation.

Before you say there is no tangible evidence I would encourage you to give the book a chance. If you aren't even willing to give a religion and look or listen to anyone talking about it, then wouldn't you blindly have faith in a world view of life?

-Kevin

 

[Mail5398]

Those genital herpes commercials scare me. I am glad I don't have that. I think if I was till out looking for some, I would wear a full body suit.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Jeez, I feel like I am on 20 questions right now or something. I'll give everything I can a shot, but I don't know everything about Christianity. I'm passionate about what I believe, but there is no way I can give you 100% answers on everything.

Also, it seems like many of you are flaming me almost in an attempt to get me to be angry or something. If you intent is to cause problems, can you please just keep it to spamming me with PM's so it doesn't detract from this thread? Thanks.

Oh come on now. Even though I don't agree with your choice I know you can come up with a better justification than comparing it to Jesus's crucifixion. Jesus was forced to be crucified by the will of others. No one is forcing you to remain a virgin until you get married. Even though Jesus may agree with your decision, he would also probably tell you that you are comparing apples and oranges with that example.

What it all boils down to is that you are choosing to practice the fraction of your religion which you actually have faith in while ignoring the rest just like everyone else who practices any kind of religion on this planet. It's all about faith. You have it when it comes to practicing abstinence until you are married. That is your only argument which cannot be countered properly and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm not posting here to tell you that you are wrong or to try and change your mind. I just want you to fully understand the risks you are taking and why. If you understand that and choose to do it anyways then that's fine.

Jesus was God first off. If he didn't want to be crucified he could have gotten himself out of there. One of the many perks of being almighty . This is the exact same thing for me (Less painful of course ). I can choose at any time to disobey the commandment, but I don't. I love Jesus in the same way that Jesus loved each of us.

I challenge you to find a "fraction of my religion" in which I am ignoring. I'm not perfect, but I most definitely do not choose to ignore any aspect of my religion.

No good looking people save themselves for marriage. That's the bottom line.

Nonsense, I know plenty of amazing and attractive people who are saving themselves.

first, how can you describe sex as "a deep personal, spiritual, physical, and emotional connection," without ever having known it? It's different for different people, to define it as some holy paragon of human experience is ludicrious. It's a natural thing. Sure, it is amazing, it's fun, some enjoy it only when they feel a deep emotional connection to their partner, some enjoy it simply because it releases a shit-load of endorphins. It's been with humans since before we created God, so let's not retroactively stamp it with a holier-than-it-deserves label

your verse, as it stands, says nothing about pre-marital sex. you have placed your own definition of "sexual-immorality" into a verse that claims it is unfavorable to God. I claim "sexual-immorality" means having sex with dogs, nothing more. it still works in that verse from Ephesians. Strange though, how it still makes sense, without me having to think that pre-marital sex is immoral. Strange how the Bible accepts any meaning you want to put into it.... Almost as if it were designed as a guidebook to live well and decent amongst our fellow humans, yet a piss-poor document to determine laws and set-in-stone rules by which we must live and abide. Hmmmm...

I've never been crucified in the exact way Jesus had. Does that make it any less painful for me to know that he was nailed onto a wooden cross and tortured?? Same with sex-- just because I haven't had sex does not mean that I know nothing about it.

As for the bolded part, I don't mean to be blunt or rude, but you have that 100% backwards.

-Kevin

again, why are you equating saving yourself for marriage with the Crucifixion of your Lord? This is highly illogical, and I'm sure not something that Jesus had ever intended of another human being. Far too much emphasis is placed on how Jesus died, rather than how he lived and the message he spread. I blame the Midwest, deep South, and all the other Kansas-dwelling fundies that are bitter for lack of education, clinging to guns and such....

There are mountains of evidence that the concept of a Judeo-Christian God does not occur in human history at any time before the various other pre-Abraham dieties had enjoyed their presence in human thought. The majority of religions that spread out from the Asian steppes, Central and South America, the Mideast, wherever, share many common myths about creation, and ancient natural disasters. To me, this suggests that there indeed was a "great flood" somewhere, at some point. There probably was some event similar the fall of towns such as Sodom and Gamor, etc, but these are interpretations of such events through the lens of the Bible, or any other holy text. To assume that one myth is more accurate than the other, though, is a bit silly.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Mail5398
Those genital herpes commercials scare me. I am glad I don't have that. I think if I was till out looking for some, I would wear a full body suit.

why do those commercials scare you? there are some of the best looking people in the world on those commercials, and they are having the most sex in the world w/o ever passing on teh herp. oh, and they are biking, vacationing, laying in hammocks with their lovers, and generally having the greatest time in the world too.

 

[FDF12389]

I was saving myself for marriage, wasn't for a lack of options though. But since then I have ummmm changed my mind about waiting.

So does that answer your question any? Some guys have opportunity and wait it out, I just couldn't pass again, which was when I was 18, so yes I held out two years, while having plenty of opportunity during those two years.

 

[Gamingphreek]

again, why are you equating saving yourself for marriage with the Crucifixion of your Lord? This is highly illogical, and I'm sure not something that Jesus had ever intended of another human being. Far too much emphasis is placed on how Jesus died, rather than how he lived and the message he spread. I blame the Midwest, deep South, and all the other Kansas-dwelling fundies that are bitter for lack of education, clinging to guns and such....

I am merely equating my choice to his choice.

He could save himself (thereby disobeying the father), I could have pre-marital sex (thereby disobeying the father).

Look past the literal meaning and look further into it. As I said earlier, for any given verse there are hundreds of lessons that can be taken away from it.

As for the historical evidence-- I don't pretend to be well read on that. I here enough that it solidifies what I believe, but it isn't something I place a lot of weight on. I'm sorry. If you want to continue discussing that, I would be more than happy to read up on it, ask a few of my peers, and then get back to you-- but above that I really honestly don't know.

-Kevin

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Reread my post. When did I ever say that faith was not necessary? I merely said that faith is a major part of the equation but not the entire equation.

Before you say there is no tangible evidence I would encourage you to give the book a chance. If you aren't even willing to give a religion and look or listen to anyone talking about it, then wouldn't you blindly have faith in a world view of life?

-Kevin

I never claimed that you said faith was not necessary. I was only emphasizing that it is the backbone of every religion and no religion can survive with out it. Everything else is just bells and whistles. In regards to tangible evidence and Christianity, just remember that your religion is far from being the only one which has been able to present what many consider to be tangible evidence. Lastly, what has lead you to believe that I have never given any religion a fair chance and that I blindly have faith in a "world view of life"? I tend to question most things. Nothing is set in stone. I don't follow any faith based religion either, but if I did it would most likely be my own version which stems from eastern religions much more so than western. The whole believing that something is ultimately right or wrong simply because Insert divine thingy or documentation here says so just never convinces me.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Reread my post. When did I ever say that faith was not necessary? I merely said that faith is a major part of the equation but not the entire equation.

Before you say there is no tangible evidence I would encourage you to give the book a chance. If you aren't even willing to give a religion and look or listen to anyone talking about it, then wouldn't you blindly have faith in a world view of life?

-Kevin

I never claimed that you said faith was not necessary. I was only emphasizing that it is the backbone of every religion. In regards to tangible evidence and Christianity, just remember that your religion is far from being the only one which has been able to present what many consider to be tangible evidence. Lastly, what has lead you to believe that I have never given any religion a fair chance and that I blindly have faith in a "world view of life"? I tend to question most things. Nothing is set in stone. I don't follow any faith based religion either, but if I did it would most likely be my own version which stems from eastern religions much more so than western. The whole believing that something is ultimately right or wrong simply because Insert divine thingy or documentation here says so just never convinces me.

I'm sorry I misinterpreted your post. To me, you came off as saying faith is the ONLY thing involved in religion. I didn't read carefully enough.

I never said you DIDN"T give religion a chance. Questioning ideas and philosophies is great! At the same time you are so quick to say that I "have evidence supporting a theory which has yet to be proven".

If you haven't read the book how would you know anything about what it says ? How would you know it is merely an unproven theory? It most definitely seems like you are well read on these various topics, but I would highly encourage you to continue questioning and learning. I feel like this is a great book for people who don't believe to read and just think on. You don't have to change your mind about anything-- its merely a great read.

-Kevin

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Anubis

because... nobody wants you?

yes alke that is why you are still a virgin

Your mom broke the news to you that I am not really your uncle right?

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Alke did you just start signing your posts?

Almost have always signed my OP's.

 

[Mail5398]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Mail5398
Those genital herpes commercials scare me. I am glad I don't have that. I think if I was till out looking for some, I would wear a full body suit.

why do those commercials scare you? there are some of the best looking people in the world on those commercials, and they are having the most sex in the world w/o ever passing on teh herp. oh, and they are biking, vacationing, laying in hammocks with their lovers, and generally having the greatest time in the world too.

I guess I am old school. The whole thought of sores on penis is kinda gross. In the commerical they talk about how lots of people have it, so why don't I get it too.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Anubis

because... nobody wants you?

yes alke that is why you are still a virgin

:laugh:

HAHA! I almost spit out my coffee. I'm sorry alkemyst. No hard feelings. :beer:

It's be hard to have hard feelings against anyone that thought that statement was that funny.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Reread my post. When did I ever say that faith was not necessary? I merely said that faith is a major part of the equation but not the entire equation.

Before you say there is no tangible evidence I would encourage you to give the book a chance. If you aren't even willing to give a religion and look or listen to anyone talking about it, then wouldn't you blindly have faith in a world view of life?

-Kevin

I never claimed that you said faith was not necessary. I was only emphasizing that it is the backbone of every religion. In regards to tangible evidence and Christianity, just remember that your religion is far from being the only one which has been able to present what many consider to be tangible evidence. Lastly, what has lead you to believe that I have never given any religion a fair chance and that I blindly have faith in a "world view of life"? I tend to question most things. Nothing is set in stone. I don't follow any faith based religion either, but if I did it would most likely be my own version which stems from eastern religions much more so than western. The whole believing that something is ultimately right or wrong simply because Insert divine thingy or documentation here says so just never convinces me.

I'm sorry I misinterpreted your post. To me, you came off as saying faith is the ONLY thing involved in religion. I didn't read carefully enough.

I never said you DIDN"T give religion a chance. Questioning ideas and philosophies is great! At the same time you are so quick to say that I "have evidence supporting a theory which has yet to be proven".

If you haven't read the book how would you know anything about what it says ? How would you know it is merely an unproven theory? It most definitely seems like you are well read on these various topics, but I would highly encourage you to continue questioning and learning. I feel like this is a great book for people who don't believe to read and just think on. You don't have to change your mind about anything-- its merely a great read.

-Kevin

Well, there's a lot of evidence out there which claims to be proof of this and that regarding religions. Every single time I read one it boils down to faith every time. So, combining that with the fact that some revolution hasn't taken place across the world over this indisputable proof contained in CS Lewis's book I guess you could say that I "have faith" that there is no actual proof to read.

It's just another theory.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: hiromizu
relevant?

You see how big she thinks my wang is though?

Guys just get jealous of that...they lolcated me.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Anubis

because... nobody wants you?

yes alke that is why you are still a virgin

:laugh:

HAHA! I almost spit out my coffee. I'm sorry alkemyst. No hard feelings. :beer:

It's be hard to have hard feelings against anyone that thought that statement was that funny.

Reading it again I don't know why I thought that was so funny. It still makes me grin a little because of the tone, but I think it was more of a hazy brain morning thing.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: bignateyk

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: bignateyk

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I'm sure if I went to parties and what not I'm sure it wouldn't take too long. I am saving myself for that one special girl whom God has planned for me in my life-- and it is going to be worth the wait I'm sure

Except for the fact that you'll be terrible at sex to start out with. Although if you get a girl who is also saving herself she won't know any different.

I've got myself a born again christian and DAMN... she's a freak in bed. I think she has the kama sutra memorized. You'd never suspect it either. She is completely innocent, and the perfect girl to take home to mom.

edit: My sister saved herself for marriage. She was with her husband for 7 years before they got married. I feel bad for my brother in law Oh well... at least he's getting some now.

Yet another reason to wait. If you are with someone whom you love and you know you will love until "Death parts [you]" -- why should it matter? Plus if you both had the same mindset, that girl would be equally nervous.

As for what you say "you have". I seriously hope you treat her with more respect than you are giving her on the AT Forums here.

-Kevin

Why should it matter? Because there is more to love than just emotional and spiritual. I've been with people before who I had strong feelings for emotionally and spiritually, but we didn't "click" in bed. In order to truly love someone I think you need all three components. Most people with your mindset seem to think that the physical part can be worked on as an after-thought, when it is just as important as the others.

More respect? It's a complement to her. At least to those who don't view sex as some kind of taboo subject.

I don't view it as a taboo subject.

Respect? You were openly flaunting that you have been having sex with a so called "born again Christian"!!

It matters for many reasons. Sex is a deep personal, spiritual, physical, and emotional connection. It shouldn't be so lightly thrown around.

As for not having pre-marital sex, I don't judge people who do, but it is my belief that is not what God intended.

Ephesians 5:3 says "But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people."

That is sexual immorality because the Bible defines sex and something between a man and a woman after they have been married.

That in mind, look in L&R's forum. Count the number of threads where people are posting about their significant other not putting out, or that the sex isn't good anymore, or something to that effect. Look at all the relationships in that forum where the two people are struggling based on sexual reasons.

-Kevin

Oh snap so prior to marriage we are all sinners. How about concubines / ladies in waiting for their KING?....oh yeah some of you christians believe the king gets a free pass

You have been brain-washed...you have totally not READ the bible.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Better to find out your SO is gonna stop putting out before you get married than after.

edit: And having a relationship that struggles because of sex is just as valid as a relationship struggling for any other reason. If you wait until you get married to have sex it's not like those problems would just vanish. You're just waiting to uncover them until you're married and then you're screwed.

But when you have sex you opened your body completely up physically and emotionally.

If I merely went out on a few dates with someone and we decided against it, then it wouldn't be that painful to stop.

If I were to have sex with someone, there are HUGE numbers of factors that then come into play.

When you get married you accept that you will have problems and arguments. But the fact is you are then acknowledging that you will love each other until the end of time. Petty arguments and stuff like this does not break up a marriage in which God is, and always was, the central figure.

-Kevin[/quote]

Unfortunately those beliefs are those that have never had sex or only one partner.

Once you have sex with a few different people, you learn to realize how little it means in a relationship.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Unfortunately those beliefs are those that have never had sex or only one partner.

Once you have sex with a few different people, you learn to realize how little it means in a relationship.

Eh...I wouldn't say that it means little in a relationship. It usually means a lot. However, this is also why I support having sex a lot with your partner before getting married. Since sex is important, that means it is also very important to find out whether or not you are sexually compatible with your partner. Not everyone is sexually compatible with each no matter how much they may love each other. That doesn't always wreck a relationship, but it most certainly does have a strong negative impact on it.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: bignateyk

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: bignateyk

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I'm sure if I went to parties and what not I'm sure it wouldn't take too long. I am saving myself for that one special girl whom God has planned for me in my life-- and it is going to be worth the wait I'm sure

Except for the fact that you'll be terrible at sex to start out with. Although if you get a girl who is also saving herself she won't know any different.

I've got myself a born again christian and DAMN... she's a freak in bed. I think she has the kama sutra memorized. You'd never suspect it either. She is completely innocent, and the perfect girl to take home to mom.

edit: My sister saved herself for marriage. She was with her husband for 7 years before they got married. I feel bad for my brother in law Oh well... at least he's getting some now.

Yet another reason to wait. If you are with someone whom you love and you know you will love until "Death parts [you]" -- why should it matter? Plus if you both had the same mindset, that girl would be equally nervous.

As for what you say "you have". I seriously hope you treat her with more respect than you are giving her on the AT Forums here.

-Kevin

Why should it matter? Because there is more to love than just emotional and spiritual. I've been with people before who I had strong feelings for emotionally and spiritually, but we didn't "click" in bed. In order to truly love someone I think you need all three components. Most people with your mindset seem to think that the physical part can be worked on as an after-thought, when it is just as important as the others.

More respect? It's a complement to her. At least to those who don't view sex as some kind of taboo subject.

I don't view it as a taboo subject.

Respect? You were openly flaunting that you have been having sex with a so called "born again Christian"!!

It matters for many reasons. Sex is a deep personal, spiritual, physical, and emotional connection. It shouldn't be so lightly thrown around.

As for not having pre-marital sex, I don't judge people who do, but it is my belief that is not what God intended.

Ephesians 5:3 says "But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people."

That is sexual immorality because the Bible defines sex and something between a man and a woman after they have been married.

That in mind, look in L&R's forum. Count the number of threads where people are posting about their significant other not putting out, or that the sex isn't good anymore, or something to that effect. Look at all the relationships in that forum where the two people are struggling based on sexual reasons.

-Kevin

Oh snap so prior to marriage we are all sinners. How about concubines / ladies in waiting for their KING?....oh yeah some of you christians believe the king gets a free pass

You have been brain-washed...you have totally not READ the bible.

Perhaps you could give me a reference as to what you are talking about. And I never said the we are any more/less sinners after marriage.

Also I don't appreciate you flaming me-- I haven't said a single negative thing about any person in this thread, and I would appreciate the same respect.

-Kevin

 

[Svnla]

In other countries, it is a culture requirement for the woman to be a virgin. Yes, there are highly educated and attractive women that saving themselves for marriage because they chose to, not because they couldn't.

You can bash or mock it but with the US rate of divorce <over 50%>, maybe we could learn something there.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
TruePaige-- I have come up with part of my answer so I can go ahead and post that.

You actually hit on one of the huge differences between Judaism and Christianity. If you are a Christian you therefore believe in the New Testament and its teachings.

If you turn to Acts 10:9-16

Since Jesus died, God pretty much nullified part of the meaning of a lot of the laws in Leviticus (Mold laws are.... lengthy to say the least )

The literal meaning of the Leviticus verses is then nullified, but metaphorical meanings (God knows there are hundreds of them for any given verse) are still very much applicable.

I'm still reading on the other passages you brought up. I am actually not that good at citing scripture yet (I lead 2 Small Groups you think I would be good at this haha ) so it takes me longer than average

-Kevin

It's a touchy thing really...

They said the Old Covenant was eternal.

Perhaps the biggest supporter of that though is:

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: ?He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.? (Matthew 15:4-7)

?Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and ?For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

So to sum it up I guess...

"He who keepeth the whole law, but offend it in one point, is guilty of all (James 2:10)."

 

[Casawi]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Casawi
I am not a virgin but I think it would have been a great experience to share with someone special. I've had sex with several girls, and now I met someone (who I think is the one) from Morocco where girls almost always save themselves for marriage. I feel that it is somewhat unfair, I don't deserve her as much...I don't really how to explain it, but I wish I was a virgin for her... but again that sex from 16-24 was great stuff man ...lol
Now I know I am not getting any until we're married, if we do.

Stop being such a drama queen. Your virginity is no big deal...neither is anyone elses.

It is not about my virginity, obviously its no big deal for me cause I don't even remember when I lost ...lol ... but its weird being with someone innocent.

 

[Casawi]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Casawi
I am not a virgin but I think it would have been a great experience to share with someone special. I've had sex with several girls, and now I met someone (who I think is the one) from Morocco where girls almost always save themselves for marriage. I feel that it is somewhat unfair, I don't deserve her as much...I don't really how to explain it, but I wish I was a virgin for her... but again that sex from 16-24 was great stuff man ...lol
Now I know I am not getting any until we're married, if we do.

Shakespeare hates your emo poetry.

WHo the F is Shakespeare.

 

[HannibalX]

Seems like a lot of people get married out of necessity these days and once the need is gone the marriage ends.

For instance a young couple is dating, gets pregnant. They get married because neither has much money and a baby is on the way. They stay married because they have to but in their mid-late 30s they both have good jobs, their bills are paid for and the child is ¾ grown. They end the marriage that neither really wanted to begin with since they are now able to function/live on their own.

It?s a sad state of affairs really.

 

[Mahaguru]

I was a virgin before I got married. Before I got married in college, I used to have girls beg me to have sex with them. I would get atleast 6-10 calls per week from girls who wanted to "hang out" or "watch a movie together because their roommate was gone", or some other similar excuse to just get me alone with them. I am talking about girls who were at least a 9, if not a 10. Ok well, some were 8s also, but just a few. A few times, I would have 2 of these girls call me just because they wanted me so bad. I would always say no, because my mind was clear and my conscious was alive. I was saving myself for the special someone I would marry, and I considered "hanging out" cheating on her. Even though I had never met her before, I knew I would meet her some day. And after all those years, I am glad I did it. Just to be clear though, most calls were on the weekends, with a few on weekdays.

But college days were rediculous. I was the envy of all my friends that girls would call me for "hanging out", rather than the opposite. This not only made my male friends envious, but also my female friends, some of whom flat out asked me to have sex with them because the attraction of other girls attracted them to me. Again, I would say no.

EDIT: I am just joking. Sorry. No girls ever called me, except telemarketers. But I was a virgin before marriage. Please don't ban me