Is Ryzen 3000 Ready?

[Markfw]

I see some members (@Blockheadfan) of these forums go on a downvoting spree which looks vile and mean and might indicate someone's insecurity, lack of intelligence and bigotry but I'm not a judge.

Meanwhile:

• Multiple pre X570 motherboards have troubles running Ryzen 3000 CPUs. MSI boards are affected the most (Do Not Buy for Ryzen 3000 Series!! Incompatible and Stripped of Bios Features, July 31, 2019).
• There are issues running RAM at designated speeds (e.g. 3200MHz even if a motherboard officially supports such memory).
• High temperatures at idle are still not fully resolved.
• There are no good inexpensive motherboards for Ryzen 3000 CPUs because they are only properly supported by the X570 chipset.
• Absolutely most X570 motherboards have active chipset cooling which can be loud and very annoying. And they are relatively expensive.
• No one even talks about this issue here on these forums but literally hundreds of people say that POST may take up to a minute.

I've noticed a lot of people on Anandtech rate posts not based on their content but based on their attitude towards the poster or the content, so I expect multiple downvotes for this message as well. Some moderators have gone as far as to approach me via PM because I erased the title of this topic. Meanwhile no one cares that people are openly mocking and scoffing at me here. I guess it's just OK and totally fine.

Some recent examples:

Pure mockery:


Never said or implied that:


Personal attacks:


Negated by the fact that multiple B450 motherboards do not boot/work with Ryzen 3000 CPUs. Just check Reddit/MSI Gaming.


I guess my desire to buy a non-expensive system without serious issues is something out-worldly as indicated by these forums. I'm terribly sorry for not being well-off. Didn't know that was required for participation.

And I'm running a Core 2 Duo based system right now because as I've already mentioned I already sold my perfectly stable Intel Core i5 2500 based rig with which I had zero issues even though I bought the motherboard and the CPU on launch. Not a single booting issue, not a single memory compatibility issue, not a single stability/temperature issue. It was rock solid. My system POSTed in under two seconds (time between powering on and loading an OS). I guess that's something too much to ask from AMD.

I presume AMD is still considered an underdog that's why you must avoid saying anything bad (even if it's based on facts) about their products but pardon me, I don't care about underdogs, I care about products. Even six members of these forums regret their purchase which is 16% of the people who've voted which is far from zero.

I hoped we would have a decent discussion here but some people just cannot contain themselves without directly or indirectly attacking me. And while moderators closely follow my actions, they choose to overlook whatever is thrown at me - and most of the posts I've quoted have nothing to do with the discussion, IOW they are simply off-topic.

What a great community we have here. And I politely asked this topic to be deleted almost a week ago. After leaving the forums for four days I've received further eight downvotes without saying anything. Again, an amazing community.


Dear AMD aficionados,

I apologize for casting doubt on your wonderful company. I will not do that again. Please accept my apologies.

Every one of your points is just WRONG. I will not go into details, as responding to your garbage post does not make me want to spend the time to prove my point. I own 2 different systems on pre-570 motherboard that work just fine, and without even the latest agesa, they all run the memory at rated speeds,

 

[Markfw]

This topic was not created to complain or say anything bad about AMD or Ryzen 3000 CPUs. I wanted to collect opinions/data/etc. and run a poll. That's it. It was never my intent to start a flame war or anything like that.

Posting garbage and lies will always get you downvotes, and is flaming.

 

[birdie]

Every one of your points is just WRONG. I will not go into details, as responding to your garbage post does not make me want to spend the time to prove my point. I own 2 different systems on pre-570 motherboard that work just fine, and without even the latest agesa, they all run the memory at rated speeds,

Please delete this topic.

As a super moderator I guess you should avoid using the words like "garbage post" but what do I know?

I guess I should have proven each of the points with multiple URLs and I can do that but since "I'm talking garbage" I just won't bother any longer.

I did not lie nor intended to do so. That's gotten beyond ugly.

Actually I require you to go ahead and prove that everything I wrote was a lie and each of the issues I posted are non-existent. Not a single affected person. The fact that you own two working systems prove nothing.

Let's have some decency here.



Trolling, incendiary language and moderator callouts are not allowed.
I have already told you multiple times that we do not delete topics.
No one is required to "prove your negatives are correct" That's a ridiculous notion.

Seriously, read the rules before you post again.
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/anandtech-forum-guidelines.60552/
Also, each sub-forum may have its own set of addtion rules in a stickied thread.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[VirtualLarry]

Actually I require you to go ahead and prove that everything I wrote was a lie and each of the issues I posted are non-existent. Not a single affected person. The fact that you own two working systems prove nothing.

I think that statistical outliers exist in nearly every sampled population.

The fact that you want to hold up those examples, as if they are somehow normative, is why you are getting the flaming and down-votes.

 

[Markfw]

Please delete this topic.

As a super moderator I guess you should avoid using the words like "garbage post" but what do I know?

I guess I should have proven each of the points with multiple URLs and I can do that but since "I'm talking garbage" I just won't bother any longer.

I did not lie nor intended to do so. That's gotten beyond ugly.

Actually I require you to go ahead and prove that everything I wrote was a lie and each of the issues I posted are non-existent. Not a single affected person. The fact that you own two working systems prove nothing.

Let's have some decency here.

The fact that I OWN and RUN 2 pre-570 motherboard with memory at rated speed, using bios from MFG website proves almost all your points invalid. And they are not expensive, others have shown the same things.

I am going to report your post as trolling. Since I have posted as a member in this thread, I can't take action, but I can say that you have called me out, and thats not allowed.

 

[A///]

What hype ? they are light years ahead of Intel at the moment, and there is nothing wrong with them...

That they could do nothing wrong and that the chips would outperform what was advertised. The processors are good, but the amount of problems you read about at the price point and it being hard to get a 3900X make me want to wait six months before buying.

I'll wait until December or January before investing money in Ryzen 3000. Intel isn't even a consideration until their next new architecture in 2022 is it?

 

[Markfw]

That they could do nothing wrong and that the chips would outperform what was advertised. The processors are good, but the amount of problems you read about at the price point and it being hard to get a 3900X make me want to wait six months before buying.

I'll wait until December or January before investing money in Ryzen 3000. Intel isn't even a consideration until their next new architecture in 2022 is it?

Well, they sort of do outperform what was advertized, and the problems are all very minor. But it is odd, that you have not been able to get a 3900x for the last several weeks (I got 2, but in the first few days)

 

[rbk123]

And I'm running a Core 2 Duo based system right now because as I've already mentioned I already sold my perfectly stable Intel Core i5 2500 based rig with which I had zero issues even though I bought the motherboard and the CPU on launch. Not a single booting issue, not a single memory compatibility issue, not a single stability/temperature issue. It was rock solid. My system POSTed in under two seconds (time between powering on and loading an OS). I guess that's something too much to ask from AMD..

Why does your single data point of your 2500 working rock solid for you make you right, yet Mark's 2 data points of his AMD systems being rock solid (not a single booting issue, not a single memory compatibility issue, not a single stability/temperature issue) for him make him wrong?

And why would you sell a perfectly functioning, rock solid badass rig, before you were sure on what to replace it with?

 

[UsandThem]

Well, they sort of do outperform what was advertized, and the problems are all very minor. But it is odd, that you have not been able to get a 3900x for the last several weeks (I got 2, but in the first few days)

I keep an eye on NowInStock, and they do sell out within minutes when in stock.

Not so bad for such a defective, not ready product, right?

Edit: Just in case anyone else takes my 2nd sentence at face-value and down-votes me, it was purely sarcastic. Hence, the "".

 

[Tsavo]

Well, they sort of do outperform what was advertized, and the problems are all very minor. But it is odd, that you have not been able to get a 3900x for the last several weeks (I got 2, but in the first few days)

5¢ says he never had one.

 

[Markfw]

5¢ says he never had one.

So far everyone that I have seen badmouth them, has never owned one. One reason that I was elected CPU moderator over 10 or 15 years ago (I forget) was that I BOUGHT virtually every CPU that came out and evaluated it based on personal experience.

 

[A///]

Well, they sort of do outperform what was advertized, and the problems are all very minor. But it is odd, that you have not been able to get a 3900x for the last several weeks (I got 2, but in the first few days)

I'm in the US. I've tried some places called Frys and Microcenter but they sell out fast as soon as they get it in stock. It's a phenomenal processor for MT workloads. At this rate and unless the take rate is high, I might be better off waiting for the 3950. I think for the price the 3900 is excellent for the moment being. I game a lot more now than I used to and I've sat through videos of people comparing 9900k to 3900 side by side using a 2070 or 2080 and the FPS difference isn't as much as some of the Intel diehards claim it is and I'm going to say these differences will get smaller over time. I think there will be a very level field in the years to come as Intel transitions to chiplet design.

If you follow someone like Francois Piednol on twitter you'd think amd was going down in flames. I have no idea why mercedes benz picked him up given his history of disingenuous tweets.

 

[VirtualLarry]

and it being hard to get a 3900X make me want to wait six months before buying.

As if... Intel hasn't had their own shortage issues for the last year or so???

 

[A///]

As if... Intel hasn't had their own shortage issues for the last year or so???

9900Ks have always been available in store for me. The price kept from buying. Microcenter has been holding bundles with the 9900k portion going for just under $460 forever. The only time it was hard to get your hands on one was around the holidays.

 

[VietOZ]

3900X #1: had been crunching 24/7 happily on a B450 mobo at 4.1ghz/1.225v vcore on varies different projects. AVX/AVX2 included. Since launched. Win10
3900X #2: been crunching 24/7 at the same speed above but at 1.25v vcore on a X570 mobo. Obtained a week after launch. Linux Mint 19
3900X #3: been crunching 24/7... same speed ... 4.1ghz at 1.275v vcore. But on a B350 mobo. This one had to add a fan on top of the VRM. Linux Mint 19

#1 and #2 using Noctua NH-D15S cpu cooler
#3 is using Noctua NH-U12A cpu cooler.

All 3 systems are out performing my TR 1950X and dual E5-2683V3 systems in terms of DC (crunching). And yes, I double checked to see if any performance loss due to lower vcore before put them to crunching.


Very happy with them so far. I'm planning to replace all of my Xeons and upgrading my Ryzens 1xxx.

 

[Markfw]

3900X #1: had been crunching 24/7 happily on a B450 mobo at 4.1ghz/1.225v vcore on varies different projects. AVX/AVX2 included. Since launched. Win10
3900X #2: been crunching 24/7 at the same speed above but at 1.25v vcore on a X570 mobo. Obtained a week after launch. Linux Mint 19
3900X #3: been crunching 24/7... same speed ... 4.1ghz at 1.275v vcore. But on a B350 mobo. This one had to add a fan on top of the VRM. Linux Mint 19

#1 and #2 using Noctua NH-D15S cpu cooler
#3 is using Noctua NH-U12A cpu cooler.

All 3 systems are out performing my TR 1950X and dual E5-2683V3 systems in terms of DC (crunching). And yes, I double checked to see if any performance loss due to lower vcore before put them to crunching.


Very happy with them so far. I'm planning to replace all of my Xeons and upgrading my Ryzens 1xxx.

I only have 2 3900x's but my experience is the same. And I sold all my 2683v3 OEM, but the ES chips will not sell for some reason.

 

[2is]

I read r/AMD several times a week, and I'm kinda shocked by the number of issues that people are having with the new Ryzen CPUs. The most widespread ones are related to high (idle) voltages and temperatures. Is this a norm for AMD for a new launch? Did anything like that happen during the launch of the previous Ryzen CPUs?

Just in case, I'm not trolling or anything. I'm genuinely interested but at the moment I've put off my purchase because I don't want to be a beta tester. I want to build a system and forget.

Everything is perfect with Ryzen 3000 CPUs. Peace out. This topic might be safely deleted.

I'm a little late to this party but here it goes anyway

I have an issue with high idle voltages and boosting less than I expected. That said, none of these are "shocking" I wouldn't even know if not for monitoring software.

I do believe you are trolling, first, you use the word "shocking" when describing the number of issues, yet the one you're most concerned with (and the only one you mention) does not affect the usability of the CPU one bit. Then you go on to ask if it's the "norm" well we've already established that there is an issue on some boards/bios' with high idle voltage, and you are well aware that this is a brand new launch so to pretend that this could be normal when you know it isn't is trolling, and quite a transparent one at that, to claim you aren't is being disingenuous on top of that.

Are there issues? sure, are they shocking? Hardly. Heck, every Battlefield launch ever has had far more "shocking" issues than this Ryzen launch and those are't shocking either.

 

[DrMrLordX]

• Multiple pre X570 motherboards have troubles running Ryzen 3000 CPUs. MSI boards are affected the most (Do Not Buy for Ryzen 3000 Series!! Incompatible and Stripped of Bios Features, July 31, 2019).

UEFI problems will take time to settle out. Did anyone not expect that? "Stripped of BIOS features" means the OEM decided to put small BIOS chips on the boards. Now they have to make compromises to make new UEFI revisions fit. Informed buyers can look at the BIOS chip size on boards and make decisions accordingly. Anyone who bought these chips day 1 expecting them to work perfectly in older motherboards was basically crazy (or taking a huge risk). Mobo OEMs had 0 financial incentive to keep supporting those boards . . . but they're stuck doing it anyway to satisfy their old customers and keep up with AMD's plans for socket compatibility. So the OEMs are dragging their feet.

• There are issues running RAM at designated speeds (e.g. 3200MHz even if a motherboard officially supports such memory).

"Issues"? Meaning people don't want to take the time out to run something like Ryzen Memory Calculator and change a few subtimings after the settings are handed to them on a platter? Do you have any idea how long it took me to tune my first DDR3 system back in 2009? Like 5 days, maybe longer. My 1800x was significantly worse since ASRock took months to get a proper UEFI rev out there for memOC (and then screwed it up later, grr). I got a satisfactory mem OC out of my DDR4-4400 in one afternoon on this 3900x. I might go for more later, but from what I can tell, I won't get a lot of advantage doing so. Just makes me think I bought the wrong sticks for this system.

• High temperatures at idle are still not fully resolved.

There are no high temps at idle. When you run polling software at tight intervals, it hits high voltage for less than 1ms on one core and causes a hotspot bump - especially if your cooling isn't absolutely top-notch. All you have to do is minimize the monitoring software and watch a histogram. It isn't "actually" running that hot. The CPU will not damage itself with these so-called 1.5v idle voltages and 50C idle temps.

• Absolutely most X570 motherboards have active chipset cooling which can be loud and very annoying. And they are relatively expensive.

My x570 Master makes less noise than my case fans and radiator fans. You really have to crank that chipset fan up there to get it to whine. Also, expensive relative to what exactly? Z390 boards?

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/#c=135&sort=-price&page=1

Those have been out a lot longer. The cheap Z390 boards often can't even handle a stock 9900k without throttling. Give AMD time, they'll launch B550 eventually. The budget crowd will get some new hardware to play with in due time. Plus B550 boards will probably handle a 3900x with 95-100% of the clockspeed of an x570.

• No one even talks about this issue here on these forums but literally hundreds of people say that POST may take up to a minute.

My very first POST, and any POST after a UEFI update, takes a long time. Startup from no power (cold boot) is blazingly fast. Rebooting is curiously slow, but does not take one minute. Maybe 15-20 seconds to warm reset.

Meanwhile no one cares that people are openly mocking and scoffing at me here. I guess it's just OK and totally fine.

Stop posting lies and you'll do better.

I guess my desire to buy a non-expensive system without serious issues is something out-worldly as indicated by these forums.

Pretty much any ASRock x370 board + R5-3600 will work well and be relatively cheap. Try to scrape up a Spire Prism since the included HSF stinks. I'm pretty sure there are going to be a lot of 3900x users giving those away . . . or selling them on eBay.

I'm terribly sorry for not being well-off. Didn't know that was required for participation.

It's that kind of attitude that gets you flak.

I guess that's something too much to ask from AMD.

At least AMD gives us new products. Intel has us stuck on the same crap from 2016. To heck with those guys.

Truth be told, if I didn't spend any time OCing my system and tuning my RAM, my setup was painless as well (once I had the system built). Getting DDR4-3200 was a snap, and letting the chip run @ stock was effortless. I just wanted more. Plenty of people have had that experience. It's the people who are prying under the lid, trying to poke at things, that are having problems.

I presume AMD is still considered an underdog

Look at the revenues for Intel and AMD. Then get back to us.

I hoped we would have a decent discussion here

Then stop being a jackass.

All 3 systems are out performing my TR 1950X and dual E5-2683V3 systems in terms of DC (crunching). And yes, I double checked to see if any performance loss due to lower vcore before put them to crunching.

Can't comment on the Xeons, but I noticed my stock 3900x beating a 1950X in CBR20. Which surprised me. 1st-gen Threadripper getting pwned by a $499 chip on a sub-$500 motherboard? And I did that running DDR4-2133.

Very happy with them so far. I'm planning to replace all of my Xeons and upgrading my Ryzens 1xxx.

As frustrated as some are with the overclocking, the truth is . . . stock performance of a 3900x destroys AMD's entire 2017 and 2018 desktop lineup and part of their HEDT lineup too.

 

[VietOZ]

@DrMrLordX : The 1st Gen TR 1950X already beat the dual V3's and only slightly behind the dual V4's (56 threads)
The 3900X tops them all, and on par with the 2nd Gen TR 2950X if not beating it as well. 24 threads versus 32 threads
At least that's what I saw on DHEP and a couple of other projects. I'll run them on more projects side by side after the Sprint to have a better look.
For a 24 threads CPU, it's a BEAST. That's for sure.

 

[CHADBOGA]

If you follow someone like Francois Piednol on twitter you'd think amd was going down in flames. I have no idea why mercedes benz picked him up given his history of disingenuous tweets.

Francois is a God amongst insects.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1137754038076710912

 

[Hitman928]

Francois is a God amongst insects.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1137754038076710912

I've never seen someone who no longer works for a company, fanboy for that same company so hard for so long. BTW, further down that thread:



The 50% of power used for fabric was already confirmed by AMD to not be true. So he continues to spread FUD. Also, even if it were true, who cares when your chip is still beating the best intel chips in Perf/W anyway, lol.

He does make a good point that basically the infrastructure for ARM servers is quite lacking compared to intel (and AMD though he won't admit that, lol), but it's not really a profound secret that he's sharing. It's a pretty well known fact in the industry.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Piednol is an idiot. He's also wrong to throw shade at ARM since he appears to be blind to what Huawei is doing with their custom cores. They already having working 64c chips.

 

[extide]

Yeah that guy is a nutcase. I mean you need to look at Rome as a complete product. We don't know the exact power usage of the Infinity Fabric except that it is less than 50% of the total, AMD has confirmed that. If you look at Rome vs Cascade Lake .. it's pretty sad for Intel I mean people think Intel is getting whipped on the desktop, sorta but not entirely, I mean Intel still has higher overall single thread perf (less IPC but the clocks make up for it) however in the server market Intel is about to really feel some serious pain. Rome is a better product in every category and every aspect. In the server world Intel can't lean on super high clock speeds so AMD's higher IPC wins. Also the fact that AMD has more than 2x the cores per socket (except for Cascade Lake AP which should be considered a different category anyways because of the power use and price, but AMD still beats it anyways), better perf/watt, AND better pricing means there is pretty much zero reason to go with an Intel solution once Rome comes out. AMD has historically had some issues with people not trusting them in terms of reliability and compatibility but since Epyc has been on the market now for 2+ years and been very successful, I think that goes a long way to mitigating that fear.

 

[Dankk]

I'd say it's ready.

I bought my 3700X a couple weeks after launch, and some things were a bit rough, but the update to AGESA 1.0.0.3 ironed out any issues that I had. It's been smooth sailing for me ever since.

Since then I've also upgraded to the newer chipset drivers + AGESA 1.0.0.3 ABB, but those haven't really done anything for me, or the performance optimizations are too small for me to notice.

Like others, the idle temperatures and voltage fluctuations "scared" me at first. Through sporadic forum-reading I eventually learned that these things are totally fine, and this is simply Zen 2 functioning as designed.

My temperatures actually aren't even that bad. On idle, it dips down to around 35 degrees... sometimes even lower, but it's hard to tell with HWiNFO constantly polling the CPU. And on full load, it goes up to around 76 degrees. I owe it to a pretty nice AIO cooler (the H115i Pro) and proper application of good thermal paste (Gelid Extreme).

Overall I'm pretty satisfied right now.

 

[A///]

Francois is a God amongst insects.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1137754038076710912

Do you mean he's a cockroach or that he's intelligent and should be listened to?


Edit: Oh okay never mind. I remember Francois being praised many years ago when he was still with Intel. I follow him on Twitter and others. Someone dug up some old posts of his on a website and managed to link him to it where he dragged people and insulted them while lying through his teeth. Dude's a nut job and he manages to bring him his Godzilla out of nowhere. And by that I mean his overpriced Skyline, otherwise there is no godzilla to be found on his person. No one who degrades others so much for correcting him will ever have anything of value down there. I wouldn't be surprised if he was pushed out of Intel. Going from Intel to MBZ seems like a massive downgrade in careers.