Is road construction really as inefficient as it appears?

[johnjohn320]

johnjohn320 want a cracker?

...?

 

[Leros]

I've done manual labor like that in heat.

1) If you work constantly, you'll pass out or get woozy from the heat (not safe). You need a lot of breaks.

2) Sometime you need a bunch of people standing around in case something goes wrong (safety again).

 

[BoomerD]

Simple answer...

<sigh> If that was only accurate.

Well, in a way it is...for a city job, you have city inspectors watching all the time, for a state job, you have state inspectors and possibly even federal inspectors...but most of the rest of that is just bullshit.

I worked union construction for about 30 years. EVERY job I was on with the exception of one...the steward worked right along side of the other members of the crew. On the single exception, it was a big job, scattered over 2 counties, and the steward stayed busy keeping union bargaining issues straightened out. The hands were from all over the country, were used to union agreements in many states...and always had...issues.
The business agent MIGHT stop by to see if he was needed...but rarely was there any longer than necessary. Doing so might construe interference with the company's business...we were not babysitters.

I didn't work many paving jobs...hated the stink of asphalt...but situations like the one in the picture were very rare...and, as is shown in the picture, the "unnecessary personnel" were usually city, county, state, and/or federal inspectors...and that has nothing to do with the company or it's workers...I spent much of my career building and repairing bridges. We were always awash in fucking inspectors...many of whom had engineering degrees...but knew absolutely NOTHING about the work they were watching.
Some of the contractors I worked for were...slippery.

The inspectors were, IMO, a good thing, because they helped keep the contractor from cutting corners that could cause shoddy work.
Unfortunately, all too often, the inspectors are on the take...so they sign off on shoddy work. I think that's particularly prevalent on the east coast where the "mob" has stronger union ties...as is the practice of "padding payroll" with people who don't actually work...they just get paid.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I always laugh at how inefficient some of this projects are. Never mind the fact that there seems to be too many people, I'll give them a break given it's manual labor and they need to alternate more.

The process in which the work takes place, which is dictated by the higher up managers who don't know squat about anything, is what gets me.

This is a typical road construction in my town:

week 1: Close down the road to be worked on
week 2: park equipment around and on said road
Any time before or after week 1: Paint lines on the road
week 5: Start digging
week 6: Fill in holes
week 7: Dig somewhere else, filling, and digging again
week 10: Dig small sections at a time until road is mostly all dug up
week 15: Start replacing some of the plumbing and other infrastructure
week 20: Backfill
week 21: pave and paint lines
week 22: open road

A few months later...

week 1: Close down the road
week 2: park equipment around and on said road
week 3: dig up a bunch of random spots and backfill
week 4: reopen road, leaving a couple unpaved sections
week 6: close down road, a few days later, pave those sections and reopen road

A year later...


week 1: Close down the road
week 2: park equipment around and on said road
week 3: dig up a bunch of random spots and backfill
week 4: reopen road, leaving a couple unpaved sections
week 6: close down road, a few days later, pave those sections and reopen road

I may be off on the weeks numbers, but that's typically how it goes for any road work here. There was actually this one road that took 3 years. They would reopen it in winter as the snow would be packed enough so it could be driven on, then they'd close it in spring when it was back to a bunch of holes.

There's one they are working on now and have been for a few months. The completion is projected for September but every time I pass there (almost every day) all I see is lot of excavators, and a few small holes here and there. Every day there's a hole in a different spot. There is no logic to it at all. None of the pipes have been installed, they are just sitting there. You'd think they would dig in a linear fashion from start to end, and install the piping as they go. But what do I know.

 

[ethebubbeth]

I'm pretty sure I saw this linked on the board here recently. It's far too relevant to the discussion at hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8b3963VRW4

 

[Mike Gayner]

Of course, everyone's jobs involve small breaks and chatting on the job, but I wouldn't be making a point of this if it weren't so common a sight in every road construction project I see around here.

Mine doesn't. I work solidly while in the office, with just a lunch break in the middle. I don't know why it's so widely accepted that jerking around on company time is normal and acceptable.

 

[johnjohn320]

Mine doesn't. I work solidly while in the office, with just a lunch break in the middle. I don't know why it's so widely accepted that jerking around on company time is normal and acceptable.

:cookie;

I guess you're just better.

 

[sleep]

you have to understand how it all works. everyone does work.

you just saw something that your mind told you to see, and judged them.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

the highway projects around here linger for years. grooved pavement for weeks and weeks. it's not unusual to see tons of equipment parked and untouched for a month or more.

 

[Triumph]

:cookie;

I guess you're just better.

He's not better, he just has a shitty job!

No downtime/coffee pot talk/chit chat leads to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md_dg8B8tmk

 

[AeroEngy]

.....
-Government engineers screw something up and it has to be corrected. Goes with the above. Sometimes these errors are pretty serious, like selecting inappropriate materials and requiring the job to be redone in mid progress.
......

This reminds me of one summer when I was 17. My dad who worked at for Dominion Power as some kind of regional supervisor said he would get me a job making $10/hr (min. wage was $4.25) for an underground utility contractor. I was pretty excited because of all the ridiculous piles of cash I would be raking in …

I got put on a job installing all the underground duct banks for power and telephone to the Dulles Town Center. This basically consisted of a guy digging a giant trench with an excavator 6-8 feet deep and me, Jose, and Francisco cleaning it up with shovels and then banging 3 sets of 8” PVC and 4 sets of 4 inch PVC together with a sledge hammer all day long. It was tiring, hot, and miserable. I will say the two Hispanic guys could work me into the ground. Basically this was my dad’s lesson to me to make me want to go to college.

Anyway the general contractor had engineered the job without encasing the duct bank in concrete which is against Dominion’s specs (but much cheaper). My dad comes out to visit and sees the progress and says WTFBBQ. Large argument ensues with the general contractor. Eventually he says your new shiny mall is going to look really funny running on generators if you don’t fix you junk. So we get to dig up almost a mile of buried duct bank and encase it in concrete. The best part was that half of it was now under a freshly paved parking lot so that had to be cut and patched. My company didn’t care because it wasn’t their fault and they got paid extra to fix it.

 

[sourceninja]

they are repairing a road near my house, it's a 2 year project.

The first year, they tore up 1 lane of the road for at least 30 miles. Then then waited 6 months for the power companies to move the light poles. Then they slowly mile by mile replaced the road. This year, same thing for the other side of the road.

My question is this: "Why not have the power company move the poles first? Then tear up the road?

 

[Squisher]

Most big road contracts these days have big bonuses in them for completing on time and even bigger ones for getting done early. There's not much standing around doing nothing.

 

[NoCreativity]

Everyone has a task that needs to be done, but not at the same time. Road construction is highly efficient, especially on larger projects. A lot of thought and resources go into streamlining the process to minimize traffic hassles, and to speed completion.

Funniest thing I've read all week.

 

[lxskllr]

they are repairing a road near my house, it's a 2 year project.

The first year, they tore up 1 lane of the road for at least 30 miles. Then then waited 6 months for the power companies to move the light poles. Then they slowly mile by mile replaced the road. This year, same thing for the other side of the road.

My question is this: "Why not have the power company move the poles first? Then tear up the road?

The lights are usually state property. I don't think the 2 are related. I'd guess the delay was something else, and the moving of poles and start of construction was coincidental.

 

[Jeffg010]

I'm not sure were all you people live defending all the road crews but come to PA and watch PennDOT workers. I guarantee you will change your mind after watching them.

32 years to build 46 miles of road. They all act like it was some huge achievement. It makes you wonder how they even got any roads built in the first place. It took them 17 years of planing get this off the ground. Really 17 years don't tell me it needed to be that long.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/westmoreland/s_747916.html

 

[lxskllr]

I'm not sure were all you people live defending all the road crews but come to PA and watch PennDOT workers. I guarantee you will change your mind after watching them.

32 years to build 46 miles of road. They all act like it was some huge achievement. It makes you wonder how they even got any roads built in the first place. It took them 17 years of planing get this off the ground. Really 17 years don't tell me it needed to be that long.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/westmoreland/s_747916.html

I'm in MD. PA is a whole different animal, and a whole different kind of stupid. I was driving through a construction site once, and noticed they put a yellow stripe on the bottom of the jersey wall. Seriously?! You're telling me I can't cross the wall line?! I wonder what genius thought it was a good idea to waste money and materials doing that :^S

 

[Linflas]

I'm in MD. PA is a whole different animal, and a whole different kind of stupid. I was driving through a construction site once, and noticed they put a yellow stripe on the bottom of the jersey wall. Seriously?! You're telling me I can't cross the wall line?! I wonder what genius thought it was a good idea to waste money and materials doing that :^S

At least Pennsylvania puts up lots of signs telling you why they are doing the perpetual construction and they say something to the effect of "Putting Pennsylvania to work".

 

[sourceninja]

The lights are usually state property. I don't think the 2 are related. I'd guess the delay was something else, and the moving of poles and start of construction was coincidental.

No, they were expanding the road from 2 lanes to 4, so the poles had to be moved.

 

[ShawnD1]

I may be off on the weeks numbers, but that's typically how it goes for any road work here. There was actually this one road that took 3 years.

One of the bridges in Edmonton took about 6 years to expand. It started as a 2 lane road and it took them 6 years to make it a 3 lane road. They would close it down to one lane or sometimes shut down the whole road completely for weeks and weeks and weeks and it just never got done. Whoever managed that project must be the dumbest bastard in the world.

 

[lxskllr]

No, they were expanding the road from 2 lanes to 4, so the poles had to be moved.

That's what I'm saying. You don't get the power company to do it. That's done by an electrical contractor. New footers get put in, new poles put up, with new electric lines installed, then the old poles get taken down, and the footers demoed.

 

[NoCreativity]

That's what I'm saying. You don't get the power company to do it. That's done by an electrical contractor. New footers get put in, new poles put up, with new electric lines installed, then the old poles get taken down, and the footers demoed.

I think his point is that it makes a lot more sense to move the poles before starting to demolish the existing road.

 

[lxskllr]

I think his point is that it makes a lot more sense to move the poles before starting to demolish the existing road.

Not really. A lot goes on in road construction that people never see. Road lighting has to be maintained. It generally isn't allowed to leave a road dark if it previously had lighting.

I'm saying that the moving of the poles, and start of construction is coincidental. Nobody was waiting for the poles to be moved before they started work. There was other stuff going on that had to be done before the road work began.

 

[sourceninja]

What I'm saying is for 6 months there was 1 line of traffic and no construction work going on except for a crew moving electrical poles.

That makes no sense to me.

It's the same with the drainage system on another road. They had to tear up the road to put in a new drainage system. So they tore up 20 miles of road. They got 10 miles done and winter came. So all winter 1 lane road no construction.

Why not just tear up what they could work on?

 

[lxskllr]

What I'm saying is for 6 months there was 1 line of traffic and no construction work going on except for a crew moving electrical poles.

That makes no sense to me.

It's the same with the drainage system on another road. They had to tear up the road to put in a new drainage system. So they tore up 20 miles of road. They got 10 miles done and winter came. So all winter 1 lane road no construction.

Why not just tear up what they could work on?

I don't know what that particular piece of road looks like, but the workers need access to the site. They don't just teleport equipment in to move poles. It may have made more sense to close a lane, so workers can get in and out safely, than have a live road to deal with.

It's easy armchair quarterbacking construction, but there's a lot more that happens that people don't see. Staging, environmental protection, and weather all factor into how a project proceeds. I can't account for all states, but MD has a professional operation that moves things along as fast as possible.