Is optical media resistant to an EMP pulse?

[John Connor]

I believe they are and I found this. http://www.futurescience.com/emp/emp-protection.html


About the author: http://www.futurescience.com/je.html

 

[SecurityTheatre]

"Optical media" is just a CD.

No, the plastic grooves in a CD will not melt away from an EMP.

Did I miss something about your question? It seems too simple...


Unless of course, you happen to leave it parked in front of a high power microwave antenna during the EMP... maybe that would melt it. :-D



A more interesting discussion is...


Does optical fibre (transmission medium) do anything in mitigating the widespread effects of a moderately sized EMP weapon?

Obviously the recievers could be fried by the EMP, but the fibre itself won't conduct the pulse, so it does offer some protection in that way.

meh?

 

[Ajay]

"Optical media" is just a CD.

No, the plastic grooves in a CD will not melt away from an EMP.

Did I miss something about your question? It seems too simple...


Unless of course, you happen to leave it parked in front of a high power microwave antenna during the EMP... maybe that would melt it. :-D



A more interesting discussion is...


Does optical fibre (transmission medium) do anything in mitigating the widespread effects of a moderately sized EMP weapon?

Obviously the recievers could be fried by the EMP, but the fibre itself won't conduct the pulse, so it does offer some protection in that way.

meh?

Some what on the optical fibers, but there will be allot of repeaters that need to be replaced. Oh, I missed the 'moderately sized' - so not that many repeaters, depend on your definition of course.

 

[Revolution 11]

If you are seriously worried about data loss during a EMP attack, (depending on where you live, this can be a nationwide EMP attack, I doubt anyone will attack Kansas), instead of the countless other threats to a civilization without power......

You already have a Faraday cage for all your important data.

 

[SecurityTheatre]

If you are seriously worried about data loss during a EMP attack, (depending on where you live, this can be a nationwide EMP attack, I doubt anyone will attack Kansas), instead of the countless other threats to a civilization without power......

You already have a Faraday cage for all your important data.

I would be more worried about my optical media being bullet proof, because after a large-scale EMP attack, your biggest problem is the dude down the street with his cache of assault rifles.

 

[serpretetsky]

fiberoptic cables:
Electromagnetic energies can constructively and desconstructively interfere with eachother, but in the end, they still are separate and do not retain any modification from the other electromagnetic source.

So yes, optical fibers are resistant. Like someone else mentioned, the electronics are not.

Optical Discs:
Generally yes, but CD's and DVD's have a metal layer that is conductive. A high enough pulse could induce a very large current and overheat this layer.

You should do what I do.

I write all of my data to a huge complex with thousands of warehouses that contain differently colored wooden dominoes that are lined up to hit each other if any one of them fall. The data is encrypted in the color of the dominoes. In the event of an EMP, the EMP will have no effect on my data storage.

Hmmm. in retrospect, lining them up so that they all go down in the slightest disturbance was probably a bad idea...

... now that i think about it more, choosing dominoes was probably a bad idea as well.

 

[exdeath]

Yes, but optical media is also resistant to fast access times as well, and therefore useless in any modern context.

Put all your data on a tier 1 SSD, wrap it in a insulating material or cardboard box, then toss it in a metal garbage can with a good ground strap. /done

If you are going to go with optical discs for EMP security, why stop there, why not go punch cards?

 

[Soulkeeper]

Yes, but optical media is also resistant to fast access times as well, and therefore useless in any modern context.

Put all your data on a tier 1 SSD, wrap it in a insulating material or cardboard box, then toss it in a metal garbage can with a good ground strap. /done

If you are going to go with optical discs for EMP security, why stop there, why not go punch cards?

An SSD wouldn't be such a good idea.

From a recently released toshiba enterprise SSD:
"Data Retention: 3 months @ < 40C"
Apparently this is typical with many SSDs for some reason

punch cards however

 

[serpretetsky]

Yes, but optical media is also resistant to fast access times as well, and therefore useless in any modern context.

I won't say whether or not optical media is useless or not, but your argument is flawed. There are situations where fast access time is not necessary. Backups typically do not need fast access time. I think backups are very relevant in a modern context.

 

[Mark R]

An SSD wouldn't be such a good idea.

From a recently released toshiba enterprise SSD:
"Data Retention: 3 months @ < 40C"
Apparently this is typical with many SSDs for some reason

It is for enterprise grade SSDs.

As flash cells wear, their data retention period reduces. A brand new cell might have a retention period of 30 years or more.

However, after about 5000 cycles, the retention period is down to about 5-10 years, and the cells are starting to corrupt data and the ECC provision is reaching its data correction limit.

For enterprise grade drives, 5000 cycles isn't enough. But in reality, flash cells don't suddenly get to 5000 and stop; they just gradually degrade. If you add a bit of extra ECC and use some cleverer algorithms, you might be able to get 30k cycles, before the corruption is too much. By that time the data retention of the flash will be trashed, but if you're running a datacentre, that's no big deal.

 

[Soulkeeper]

That was an enterprise SSD, I guess the bar has been lowered.
Seems odd to list 3 months

 

[exdeath]

It is for enterprise grade SSDs.

As flash cells wear, their data retention period reduces. A brand new cell might have a retention period of 30 years or more.

However, after about 5000 cycles, the retention period is down to about 5-10 years, and the cells are starting to corrupt data and the ECC provision is reaching its data correction limit.

For enterprise grade drives, 5000 cycles isn't enough. But in reality, flash cells don't suddenly get to 5000 and stop; they just gradually degrade. If you add a bit of extra ECC and use some cleverer algorithms, you might be able to get 30k cycles, before the corruption is too much. By that time the data retention of the flash will be trashed, but if you're running a datacentre, that's no big deal.

And for an SSD limited and dedicated to just personal backup images once a week, it will last longer than the owner's life span.

Also all my current drives are 32nm MLC toggle NAND which is at least 10k program erase cycles.

It's nice to just plop a cartridge into a 2.5" dock like it's a floppy or NES cartridge, BAM 500 MB/sec, pull it out, done.

If you are ever worried about imminent EMP just toss all your stuff into your microwave, shut the door, and only connect the earth ground and you'll be all set. Grounded solid metal box with a screen on the front with 1mm holes good to 300 GHz.

Test with a cell phone though and make sure you get no signal. It's scary how many consumer microwave ovens are poorly shielded. If a 700-2400 MHz signal can get IN it means it can also come out and I wouldn't be standing next to that microwave while in use. :awe:

 

[piasabird]

For SSD'S Tom's Hardware had an article where they tested using more DDR3 RAM to extend the life of the SSD. It seemed to have a positive effect.

 

[aigomorla]

doesnt matter... cuz the ics and capacitor used inside optical will fry from a EM.

So u can save the media all u like.. without a reader, its pointless.

wasnt it also possible to slightly curve light with a magnetic field?
So even then possibly u can bork optical data being sent.

 

[Oyeve]

Any EMP that would affect optical media (cd and the like) would have to be so high and strong that the iron in your blood would probably rip out of your body rendering and use of a cd moot because you would be dead.

 

[John Connor]

That's kinda what I thought, except a member here in another thread was saying I was wrong. He tried to point out that what would happen to a CD would essentially be the same thing that happens when you put a CD in the microwave. LMAO!

 

[Jeff7]

Next question: How well will the SRAM on the PC's BIOS chip hold up to the EMP? If the PC won't boot because its BIOS is severely corrupted, your undamaged optical media won't do you much good.

doesnt matter... cuz the ics and capacitor used inside optical will fry from a EM.

So u can save the media all u like.. without a reader, its pointless.

wasnt it also possible to slightly curve light with a magnetic field?
So even then possibly u can bork optical data being sent.

If that's even possible, and I don't know that it is, since photons carry no charge, I have a feeling you'd need an insanely powerful magnetic field to sufficiently divert the laser beam so as to cause corruption as it makes its short trip from emitter to detector - maybe something on the order of a magnetar?

 

[SecurityTheatre]

That's kinda what I thought, except a member here in another thread was saying I was wrong. He tried to point out that what would happen to a CD would essentially be the same thing that happens when you put a CD in the microwave. LMAO!

That would take a pretty high power EMP, or very close proximity. I suspect you would need power on the order of 1W/mm and that isn't possible from any sort of range beyond a few hundred m.

 

[SecurityTheatre]

Next question: How well will the SRAM on the PC's BIOS chip hold up to the EMP? If the PC won't boot because its BIOS is severely corrupted, your undamaged optical media won't do you much good.


If that's even possible, and I don't know that it is, since photons carry no charge, I have a feeling you'd need an insanely powerful magnetic field to sufficiently divert the laser beam so as to cause corruption as it makes its short trip from emitter to detector - maybe something on the order of a magnetar?

If you put a PC inside of a Faraday cage, it would probably survive. Obviously, this depends on the size of the pulse.

For example, a steel building might be sufficient to save some electronics, so might the body of a car, protect against weaker EMPs.

You could always stash a laptop in a thick metal box or tight-mesh cage, where virtually no EM radiation could penetrate.

Then you would have a perfectly good PC to use.

 

[John Connor]

If you bury a computer a few feet you're protected too.

 

[Blain]

If you bury a computer a few feet you're protected too.

Do you plan on having that buried PC connected to any systems above ground via wire which is copper?

 

[Blain]

If you are ever worried about imminent EMP just toss all your stuff into your microwave, shut the door, and only connect the earth ground and you'll be all set. Grounded solid metal box with a screen on the front with 1mm holes good to 300 GHz.

What if no imminent attack is looming but he wants to guard against all EMP events... man-made and natural?

 

[Essence_of_War]

wasnt it also possible to slightly curve light with a magnetic field?

Probably not (at least not in vacuum), with some caveats.

Electromagnetic waves are effectively a perturbation about a background field value, and once the perturbation starts, it's self propagating and doesn't really care about a static background field value.

In particular types of materials, an external magnetic field can do some tricky things to light, though. See, for example, the Faraday Effect .

You can do a similar sort of thing in a magnetized plasma with a density gradient. If you shine a lineraly polarized EM wave onto a magnetized plasma that has a density gradient (and the magnetization!) along the wave's propagation, you can show that the wave's polarization state will be rotated.

 

[John Connor]

Do you plan on having that buried PC connected to any systems above ground via wire which is copper?

Of course not. The idea is to protect it. Burying a hard drive in a time capsule would work too! I was looking at long lines bunkers and they are EMP prof under ground bunkers and they carried telephone traffic. The idea about long lines bunkers was due to the threat of a nuclear war. I wonder what they did about the telephone lines that could be induced by an EMP? Acctully, now that I think of it the lines were buried. LOL

 

[SecurityTheatre]

Of course not. The idea is to protect it. Burying a hard drive in a time capsule would work too! I was looking at long lines bunkers and they are EMP prof under ground bunkers and they carried telephone traffic. The idea about long lines bunkers was due to the threat of a nuclear war. I wonder what they did about the telephone lines that could be induced by an EMP? Acctully, now that I think of it the lines were buried. LOL

You probably could protect systems by putting sensitive fuses on the data lines, assuming you wanted underground connectivity.

That said...... why?