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is OnLive to bring an end to the graphic cards market?

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This niche service is really going to need some heavy investments to get it up and running. Not to mention high monthly costs initially for the company to sustain a profit or at least break even at some point.

Services like Netflix HD work because the content is premade, and to me, it's more or less just like watching HD content on TV. Receive data, decipher, and view. It's easier to send files that don't require much further processing on the end-user's equipment (HD receiver decoding a relatively simple set of data).

A baseball game in HD will be the same game in HD from the field to the house. There's no changes to the content in terms that it's static. Camera records, person watches. Nothing really changes except for what's being recorded. The framerate will be more or less constant.

With games, it takes calculations in real-time in order to play. And if the user wanted to move or blow up a barrel, more calculations are needed to do such a thing. Calculations include rendering, physics, etc. I use this term broadly.

The workload on the end-user's computer to churn out the encoded files will also require upgrades. Streaming Crysis onto a low-end system and playing it on-screen without delay seems impossible to me. Unless the quality was very low.
It would work if it was static like a video, but games are more dynamic. If you move the mouse towards an enemy, all that has to be accounted for and sent back to the "processing" machines, to say. Then sent back to the end-user and decoded again. All within a few milliseconds, not counting latency.

Search a phrase on Google. The results aren't instant and those are only words. I haven't used a fiber connection or any super-fast connections, but I'd still assume that nothing is instant. The point is that there's going to be a slight delay, more noticeable as the end connection is slower.

Not everyone has fiber connections, and upload speeds on copper lines are slow. Some people I know can't even max out 1.5Mbps on their DSL lines. Not sure how much symmetrical DSL/cable lines are priced at, but it's definitely more than the $10-20 for basic ADSL service. To the consumer, is it worth spending this much just to play some low-setting games (or high, if possible)? The game itself is only $XX, a one-time fee.

The concept is interesting, but the United States' infrastructure (majority) is too outdated to support it. Maybe in a place like Japan or HK where their connections can support the high amounts of bandwidth. Even if the company spends $100 million on their hardware, some people's old, crappy copper wires will be the limiting factor. That's not an easy fix, and will come at a price.

The concept is not practical unless it was being deployed by say an ISP (ATT, Verizon, etc) willing to dig up copper for fiber. What will be the cost of that? More than $30 a month for us. Billions for them.

Something will bottleneck the whole process. That bottleneck will cost money to fix. The economic gains are slim, the market is actually quite small, and the problems will be endless.

(I might be incorrect on some areas, so please feel free to correct me.)
 
Streaming games could work, but the resulting quality will be lower. Also, it requires a lot of bandwidth. Streammygame already does this now, streaming HD res gaming over the Internet, but it's heavily compressed video, subject to lag, and only available to the fastest of connections.
 
Streaming games could work, but the resulting quality will be lower.
it can probably get the servers produced quality..
we disscussed it before,
1.5Mbps SD, 5Mbps HD and maybe even more for extended quality..

Streammygame already does this now
just went into they're site,
you basically download a server client and sharing games with others on the web,
if u'r in the U.K and they are in Russia, you'll probably suffer from a great deal of lag..
basically, its a nice idea, people can share they're stuff over the net in close area's but when it gets far away,
they're out of luck,
Onlive is basically going to organize this all thing, Onlive is based upon payment when SMG seems not to be (only at certain qualities),
they're probably going to spread tons of servers so this product will be available to almost anyone,
they don't require anyone to be serving of course, even not to be having a GPU..🙂.
 
For this to have any chance, they're going to have to limit it to FIOS, U-Verse, and Docsis 3.0 cable internet...and have a lot of local servers. Either that or limit the resolution...I'm not going to boldly leap into 2002 and play at 1024x768 though.
 
it can probably get the servers produced quality..
we disscussed it before,
1.5Mbps SD, 5Mbps HD and maybe even more for extended quality..

The company claims that.

Most people have trouble streaming SD Youtube videos. It's the crappy infrastructure, not the speed that's the problem. Streaming a video is different because the video doesn't require user input. This real-time gaming will require input be sent and received instantly if you ever want to move correctly without delay. Sure, the technology will stream Crysis HD images just fine. Look at Netflix HD (720p works, 1080p capable but bandwidth limited). But playing the game is a whole other matter that most likely requires a upload speed with a response time of less than 1ms, which many have said is impossible.

Going by what A5 said, there's no way this service can get on without fiber optics. I doubt the gamers that pay for this service will be content with 1024x768.

It's easier and quite possibly cheaper to upgrade than pay the price of service, the price of faster internet (FiOs/U-Verse aren't what most people call affordable), and whatever surcharges occur. And you'll get better performance that isn't limited by the Internet or latency or whatever occurs between the user and the OnLive server.
 
2002??
WT hell is it?
i'm starting to sick from this thread, i know ~0.1 things regarding compression algorithms, ~ a bit at compression rates through different codecs, and about nothing as to what Onlive is going to be based upon related to that,
i'm starting to think breaking into perlman's house and getting the specs for it cause these questions and the lack of knowledge regarding it, realy puts one in quite an awkward situation,
i'm just viewing it as u do..
they gave quite a nice presentation (not that it's saying anything), they let people try it (maybe there were, but never heard any complains), they are saying they're going to bring it out at the upcoming winter.
never tryed it,
can't realy tell u guys whether it'll work or not and how,
starting to argue how fast is the compression algorithm and whether the srevers will be able to deliver it streamingly, is like trying to get the Mars land analysis before the shuttle has even left from here.
basically, on 50 miles away servers, they showed it's possible, if u want u can trust what they say,
if not, you can wait for you'r neighbour to try it and see if it fails,
you'll have to get the file sizes, the exact compression rate, view the codec & it's speed, in order to be able to say what u'v said,
u can't just say, "it wouldn't work" without these parameters..
it seems i'm protecting this product as if i created it..
this wasn't exactly the purpose of this thread,
the purpose was (just to remind), is whether this would harm or bring an end to the graphic cards markets..
coming out with numbers such as 200KB or whatever is realy a bogus number here.
sorry for saying it,
though,
appreciate u'r comments.. 🙂.
 
I'm not going to beat this topic to death. But just know that this is just marketing as of now. The demo was done with servers only a few FEET away, not miles. Latency is a hardware issue that can only be resolved with a complete overhaul of the Internet infrastructure.

Will it bring an end to the graphics market? No.
 
Will it bring an end to the graphics market? No.
be carefull with that..
it's hard foreseeing that (without a decent explanaition atleast),
you'r ofcourse welcome to share any views you got,
i'm pretty sure they said it was 50 miles..,
whether you've been there and you can say otherwise,
cannot tell,
but pinging here a 20 miles away server gets 24ms,
so makes it possible from this aspect atleast,
though infrastructure is indeed a thing to be put in mind.
regards.
 
Actual users using the service during the demo said the servers were in the vicinity, instead of Santa Clara or wherever the West Coast servers are held.

This service will most likely only affect a small market. For work-related tasks, they're going to still need grahpic cards to render images and models. The technology is only improving in regards to GPU-accelerated programs. Most gamers will still continue to upgrade their parts, because they want the best. Monitors already go past 1080p. The company itself depends on the GPU market in order to run the games they stream. They'll have to change frequently in mass quantities to keep up with game development.

OnLive is actually targeting the console world, not graphics market. They're not changing how anything is rendered, only the delivery system. A potential competitor to say Xbox Live, Steam, etc.
 
very well explained boorns,
thats starts to sound like a decent answer,
as a note,
servers will need much less equipment than solo people,
each one can address few customers,
it's very hard to tell how many GPU's, CPU's will be at each build up, it's bandwidth capacity, and how many consumers would it be able to share,
the cost of it,
etc.
aside from that,
it's quite obvious that dedicated GPU's will still be marketed, and it won't harm that portion of the sales,
note, that if it's going to be a burden on the multi million console market, and millions will transfer themselfs to OnLive,
it'll take it's part from the GPU market as well, or atleast, it'll have probably the same consiquences there,
whether it'll eliminate it,
it's very hard to tell,
as u said,
many people are still looking for the fastest&newest hardware, higher resolution, new screens etc. etc.
on the other hans, companies will have interest as it won't enable hacking they're products,
so,
it might take a few years or so, and again, the limits of the infrastructure which adds to it.
it wasn't suggested that it'll all happen in an year.., we'll still have to see how it'll all work,
it'll be very much interesting to see it's influence,
probably it's the same for some other people too 🙂.
 
as a note,
servers will need much less equipment than solo people,
each one can address few customers,

It's not going to be a cheap server. Most servers don't have GPUs inside. This will require at least the upper-midrange graphics cards with a lot of memory for virtual machines. They need a lot of servers. A few users per server isn't going to make up the difference in cost.

it's very hard to tell how many GPU's, CPU's will be at each build up, it's bandwidth capacity, and how many consumers would it be able to share,
the cost of it,

Just looking at the concept, it's not going to be cheap. Bandwidth of this scale isn't going to be cheap for the company and ISPs have caps on users. Customers will share the cost of it all right, such as a 60/month fees on top of their internet bill. I'd say it'd end up being $100/month just to get the service.

it's quite obvious that dedicated GPU's will still be marketed, and it won't harm that portion of the sales,
note, that if it's going to be a burden on the multi million console market, and millions will transfer themselfs to OnLive,
it'll take it's part from the GPU market as well, or atleast, it'll have probably the same consiquences there,

Those millions weren't never the target, never the purchaser. And consoles will still continue to function normally. Many people want to physically own a game, play offline, and be able to carry around a gaming console to a friend's house that is without good Internet or no Internet at all. Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo have the capability to roll out something like this, but with the reasons above, there isn't a need currently.

whether it'll eliminate it,
it's very hard to tell,
as u said,
many people are still looking for the fastest&newest hardware, higher resolution, new screens etc. etc.
on the other hans, companies will have interest as it won't enable hacking they're products,
so,
it might take a few years or so, and again, the limits of the infrastructure which adds to it.
it wasn't suggested that it'll all happen in an year.., we'll still have to see how it'll all work,
it'll be very much interesting to see it's influence,
probably it's the same for some other people too 🙂.

This service is coming out soon, Winter 2009. I have to say, the investors aren't going to be very happy when they see the profit margins, if any at all. It's not a product for this decade, maybe 2015 or so.

I'd be more concerned with how the company monitors my data and use rather than people hacking the games. Piracy aside, game modifications should not be prohibited. This type of service will close out all development by the users. Some of the best things about games have come from mods: Garry's Mod is one great example. You close the doors on development and you see an end to things that are more of a benefit to the gaming world than some gaming publisher's profits.

This isn't the first company to do anything like this. A few years back, there was this thing called The Phantom by Infinity Labs. Poised to overtake the gaming world by storm, offering a direct-download system. Required a broadband connection and they even gave you a real console (basically a gaming computer). How many people are using this? Few. The product has been dead as of August 2006. Just to put things in perspective.

With this OnLive service, everything you do will require a fast Internet connection. Everything is on their servers. If I decided to stop paying, I get nothing. Great, $1200 a year and I own nothing in the end. Not even a CD or anything.
 
With this OnLive service, everything you do will require a fast Internet connection. Everything is on their servers. If I decided to stop paying, I get nothing. Great, $1200 a year and I own nothing in the end. Not even a CD or anything.
thats a very good point, some of the members here have showed the same concern.

basically u say that it's not such a highlight, it'll be expensive, not imediate profitable, and infrastructure problematic,
the cost is realy something to consider, even that it'll give the opportunity for any device to be played upon, the predicted monthly fee seems to be quite monstrous..
I have to say, the investors aren't going to be very happy when they see the profit margins, if any at all.
i hope you'r wrong at this fellow, i realy see a great flourishment from this project,
both from the side of blocking piracy (which might take some time as u noted), and especially from the ability to watch people preferences, being able to view you'r product working and being played online!
this might eventually lead to a kind of liberation, where customers will be able to "vote" for the kind of experience they seek,
being able to change in "dynamically",
adding the possibility for less known companies to join in, maybe in a lower fair, getting them known, giving'em the ability to work together with the so called "big names" (not underestimating),
the Infinium product is not quite the same thing,
1st, it's a console, somekind of a laptop with somesort of a wireless keyboard, the basic idea behind they're Phantom product, is that the customer pays a ~29$ monthly fee and gets the rights to download some free games from they're website,
he playes it upon the console or he's/her's PC, not streamingly..
i guess "stream my game" is the closest to Onlive, though it's not being server/fully environment dedicated as it and it's more at the user initiative side playing as client&server, suffering lag, lack of maintainance and suddently getting pissed off closing u'r connection thing :laugh:
there are also some competitors at that market corrently for OnLive,
Gaikai is having some nice idea,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaikai
taken from that page:
Their target market appears to be people who don't want to have to worry about upgrading computer hardware or patching games
it seems these projects do planning on ithching the HW markets,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnLive:
taken from that page..:
Steve Perlman has said the console, joystick and subscription would be cheaper than the cheapest of consoles.
look, this is not a "joke", some clampy product, they've been working on it, it's unclear whether Gaikai or Playcast Media System (israel cable based system) is going to be up with it,
these guys do mean business, all the way in,
i think the internet is going through some sort of a transfer from user based environments to "cloud" or global remote environments,
both from the side of DC project, such as F@H,SETI,WCG and so on, through storage@home types and further to projects such as the M12 Majestic,
and Onlive type projects, are coming right in time for it,
i realy think it's going to be something BIG!
regards!😉.
 
i hope you'r wrong at this fellow, i realy see a great flourishment from this project,
both from the side of blocking piracy (which might take some time as u noted), and especially from the ability to watch people preferences, being able to view you'r product working and being played online!

You're thinking too far into the future. The initial investors won't be pleased if the service doesn't deliver. The put money into a product expecting a return, and currently, those hopes look slim. If it doesn't show any profits in its first or second year, then I doubt more investors will hop on. Few game publishers will sign on to an unproven system.

I don't know if you missed my edit, but I said this is the wrong time for such a company to start the service. Investing and launching a few more years later would be wiser due to the advances in technology and infrastructure (if anything improves).

The potential for marketing use is there, but data privacy still applies. I'm fine with the service logging what I buy and want, but once it logs and uses the hours I play a game for studies, that's enough for me to cancel. I don't know how many people would like being data subjects. Piracy is one of those things I don't have a strong opinion on. No comments right now.

the Infinium product is not quite the same thing

It's the basic business concept. Stream games onto a console or computer via broadband.

Steve Perlman has said the console, joystick and subscription would be cheaper than the cheapest of consoles.

See, with a OnLive console, it is the same thing as the Phantom. Its main target should and would be the console market then, not the PC.

The Xbox 360 is $199, one-time fee. Games are whatever their prices are. Xbox Live is $50 or 60 for a year subscription. This OnLive service has a monthly rate plus the cost of internet and rental fees for games. Cheaper? It doesn't seem so for the casual gamer that buys maybe one game every 1-2 months and might play online.

look, this is not a "joke", some clampy product, they've been working on it, it's unclear whether Gaikai or Playcast Media System (israel cable based system) is going to be up with it,

It sure isn't a joke, especially when they invested millions in something that most likely will not live to expectations at this time. I can't blame their marketing, but it is the problem.

these guys do mean business, all the way in,
i think the internet is going through some sort of a transfer from user based environments to "cloud" or global remote environments,
both from the side of DC project, such as F@H,SETI,WCG and so on, through storage@home types and further to projects such as the M12 Majestic,
and Onlive type projects, are coming right in time for it,
i realy think it's going to be something BIG!
regards!😉.

Cloud computing being the future? Yes. OnLive going to be big? Not in the next few years. The reasons have already been mentioned. But do remember, I'm talking about the company, not the idea. It's not your company, so you shouldn't be so defensive about it.

Crytek predicting a viable streaming service in 2013-2015
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/a...service-viable-in-2013

"Yerli said that the main barrier would be relying on the technology of broadband providers to ensure a smooth connection and gameplay experience"

"We had our research in 2005 on this subject but we stopped around 2007 because we had doubts about economics of scale. But that was at a time when bandwidth was more expensive," said CEO Cevat Yerli."

Sony's opinion on Onlive

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/04...ions-onlives-promises/

"Seybold wonders if Rearden Studios can actually maintain the amount of resources that will be needed to support OnLive, such as a vast network of powerful (and most likely expensive) servers, and actually have them functional in a "real world environment."

"How much of the initial risk is going to come over as final cost to consumers? Rearden has yet to announce a subscription fee. Adding on to that, cost doesn't necessarily just mean money; there are questions over bandwidth caps and hardware specs that still need attention."
 
The put money into a product expecting a return, and currently, those hopes look slim.
i wonder on what you'r basing you'r claims, there are corrently millions probably who would love to play streaming, hooking they're client to a T.V or PC without the need to purchace download patch etc.,
i see a large market for it, especialy after it's been told to be cheaper then buying a new console..
it'll give us so many options, a richer interaction, people are jumping at what is social & popular, i think OnLive is giving the gaming environment, a whole new medium.

I don't know if you missed my edit, but I said this is the wrong time for such a company to start the service.
the technology seems to be working, at least so they claim, if it won't, it's will only be they're own lost, if stream service has some 20 million acounts corrently, i can't see why Onlive won't have even much more, taking all they're marketing into the picture, they're nice looking consule etc. etc.
we shouldn't argue corrently whether it's the right time, if u say it isn't and the other say it is, maybe we should both wait and see how it'll go,
i realy have a strong believe in it,
as to Gary's Mod, it seems that the majority of people won't be using it corrently, and there is no aparent reason for people who will to still use it,
OnLive will not take all present games into it and aside from that, there isn't any saying that people won't be able to upload they're mods into the service, create maybe an OnLive site for people to add they're experiments and development and from there be voted to the service,
it realy opens up many options as it been said.

I'm fine with the service logging what I buy and want, but once it logs and uses the hours I play a game for studies, that's enough for me to cancel.
it happens with google too, what can you do about it? it seems much less private though but maybe it'll be optional,
can't tell much about it, it a kind of a choice,
they can do the same through you'r ISP, Cable T.V etc..
i won't be using it probably, so it isn't a concern here.
Piracy is one of those things I don't have a strong opinion on
piracy is highly controversial, it could be considered both legitimate and very unethical,
reverse engineering though is a fine art, to be used with respect and manners as a tool,instrument not to get anybody unnecessarily cheated or harmed.

Stream games onto a console or computer via broadband.
yeah but maybe the same as the stream service with a console added, not quite as OnLive, it seems you have to download the game o you'r HDD -
taken ffrom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...ntom_%28game_system%29:
Infinium Labs announced at 2004's E3 that the Phantom would use a direct-download content delivery service. By connecting the system to a broadband Internet connection, Phantom owners would have been been able to purchase games through the system's interface and have the game downloaded directly onto the unit's hard drive.
they also had so many cancelations on they're deadlines, in all seemed too unserious..

See, with a OnLive console, it is the same thing as the Phantom. Its main target should and would be the console market then, not the PC.
u got the wrong idea here :laugh:,
OnLive IS a console, but it doesn't mean it'll harm only the console market,
the project is a conjunction between both a console supplyment and the needlessly for an HW upgrade, to take u back to the Gaikai saying:
Their target market appears to be people who don't want to have to worry about upgrading computer hardware or patching games
..😉.

This OnLive service has a monthly rate plus the cost of internet
you anyhow pay for the internet, don't you!? there are corrently about 1 billion people connected, or using it, it isn't a "bug".
199+~8 games a year, can get up to 300$?
another thing is, it's limited to Xbox users?
if u want to play a PC game on u'r Xbox u can't..
if u wan't to play an Xbox game on u'r PS3 can u..?
or playing Xbox, PS3 Nintendo's on u'r PC..?
so if u'r a "serious" gamer, that might save u the 3?
havn't u ever wanted to play GOW 2 on you'r PC, looked for emulators (nop) etc. etc. etc..
so Onlive takes all of this, all the consoles, future upgrades, superflous disks, downloads, installs (polution) and more and combining them into single dimentional option!
that is supreme,
i understand u'r concerns but it seems afterall to be quite a nice deal..

i'll put aside the further notes, and what u said about it not being the writer's company,
nobody can foresee what the future shall bring, people most of the time doing it, are basing they're idea's on past occurances,
the world is not static, you can't know where it's turning will lead..
it might be that it'll take OnLive some time to grow, getting over people's doubts and scepticism mostly ..pobably..,
hell, we can't even know what technology will bring here the next 6 months, YEAR..
even Yerly has some doubts about it, "But that was at a time when bandwidth was more expensive",
things are changing rapidly, i don't want anything further to say,
it's sort of good as it is corrently,
basically i think the thread is very good, there are many point of views, many doubts, remarks and details on different levels of this initiative,
there were many answered questions, different solutions to a large scale of queries, many might find it very usefull viewing this products overall scale,
it's good it's on google, people can come judge whether they like it or not, how far it will go, etc.,
there is basically lot's of information on a large spectrum of it,
from here on, only time will tell,
we'll let life take the lead and bring us there 🙂.
regards.
 
i wonder on what you'r basing you'r claims, there are corrently millions probably who would love to play streaming, hooking they're client to a T.V or PC without the need to purchace download patch etc.,
i see a large market for it, especialy after it's been told to be cheaper then buying a new console..
it'll give us so many options, a richer interaction, people are jumping at what is social & popular, i think OnLive is giving the gaming environment, a whole new medium.

Do you know how businesses work? You can't seem to understand what I'm saying. I doubt there is going to be a million people in the first few years. I even doubt the possibility of 100,000. The current infrastructure of the Internet will not support it. Most users won't be able to use it.

You do know what profit is right? Running and maintaining this isn't free. Starting this up isn't free. a business operating at a loss will not sustrain itself for long. You know what marketing is right? Persuading customers that OnLive is better than anything else. It has worked on you.

the technology seems to be working, at least so they claim, if it won't, it's will only be they're own lost, if stream service has some 20 million acounts corrently, i can't see why Onlive won't have even much more, taking all they're marketing into the picture, they're nice looking consule etc. etc.

Steam is a different matter. It took years for Steam to gain momentum. And Steam does not render anything in real-time. It acts as a centralized host for files, making digital distribution cheaper. Implementing Steam is neither as expensive nor problematic as OnLive.

OnLive's loss is millions invested into a service. Many people will be angry if this does fail, because no one throws around millions without expecting a return.

we shouldn't argue corrently whether it's the right time, if u say it isn't and the other say it is, maybe we should both wait and see how it'll go,
i realy have a strong believe in it,

You post this is the "Highly Technical" section on a tech site. I'm not here to praise the company. I want them to publish how they expect to do what they claim. No one is going to steal their product: that's what patents are for. I'm not the only one with doubts, although I'm probably the only one that even deals with you.

Based on the real-world factors, it isn't time. That has beem explained over and over.

as to Gary's Mod, it seems that the majority of people won't be using it corrently, and there is no aparent reason for people who will to still use it,
OnLive will not take all present games into it and aside from that, there isn't any saying that people won't be able to upload they're mods into the service, create maybe an OnLive site for people to add they're experiments and development and from there be voted to the service,
it realy opens up many options as it been said.

A lot of people use Garry's Mod. You don't understand how OnLive works, do you? It is rendering games on their servers. The code is with them, and any future publisher will most likely not distribute their source code to the consumers. How will people create mods? There's no incentive for OnLive to release any of it, for free.

it happens with google too, what can you do about it? it seems much less private though but maybe it'll be optional,
can't tell much about it, it a kind of a choice,
they can do the same through you'r ISP, Cable T.V etc..

Google logs my search terms. They're not monitoring what I do all the time. If my ISP monitors me, I'd cancel that too. This is a violation of privacy. You said yourself that OnLive is marketing its ability to gather user data.

you anyhow pay for the internet, don't you!? there are corrently about 1 billion people connected, or using it, it isn't a "bug"

1 billion Interner users. Not all users are on 5Mbps lines or even past 1Mbps. It costs money if someone can even get direct Internet in their home, and few people will spend more on their Internet bill just to use this service, which also has a hefty monthly fee. It's not economically feasible for the average consumer.

199+~8 games a year, can get up to 300$?
another thing is, it's limited to Xbox users?
if u want to play a PC game on u'r Xbox u can't..
if u wan't to play an Xbox game on u'r PS3 can u..?
or playing Xbox, PS3 Nintendo's on u'r PC..?
so if u'r a "serious" gamer, that might save u the 3?

PS3+ games= still less than the total cost of OnLive+Internet
Wii+games= still less

The reason each console has exclusives is because there's competition. Competition against each other to sell the product. If the PC had all the games or PS3 or 360, then the others are obviously not going to sell.

A serious gamer isn't going to use this service. You should read the opinions of gamers on this around the Internet. It's all there, and a few minutes of research will go a long way.

havn't u ever wanted to play GOW 2 on you'r PC, looked for emulators (nop) etc. etc. etc..
so Onlive takes all of this, all the consoles, future upgrades, superflous disks, downloads, installs (polution) and more and combining them into single dimentional option!
that is supreme,
i understand u'r concerns but it seems afterall to be quite a nice deal..

If I wanted to play an exclusive, I pay the price. If I wanted GOW2, I get the console and the game. No Internet required, and I physically get to hold the game and the system that runs the game. Downloads/updates are free, and if I want to play online, I pay the very fair subscription fee. I know that even if I can't afford the Internet, I'll still have something to play.

If I wanted to do the same on OnLive, I'd at least have to have a 1.5Mbps line. That's not guaranteed to be available everywhere. I have to pay their subscription fee and in the end, hope that I can actually play something. What if my connection doesn't work? What if I go to a friend's house with no Internet? I can't use OnLive there. What if I can't afford the monthly fees? Everyone is gone.

It harms developers to only develop for one platform. It destroys competition and creates a monopoly.

i'll put aside the further notes, and what u said about it not being the writer's company,
nobody can foresee what the future shall bring, people most of the time doing it, are basing they're idea's on past occurances,
the world is not static, you can't know where it's turning will lead..
it might be that it'll take OnLive some time to grow, getting over people's doubts and scepticism mostly ..pobably..,
hell, we can't even know what technology will bring here the next 6 months, YEAR..
even Yerly has some doubts about it, "But that was at a time when bandwidth was more expensive",
things are changing rapidly, i don't want anything further to tell,
it's sort of good as it is corrently,
we'll let life "bring" us there 🙂.

Yes, ignore what the gaming industry has to say. They sure don't know what OnLive is about, because no one else has tried such an approach.

In six months, we'll still have the same crappy Internet. In the next few years, the same. Technology can improve all they want, but it isn't going to benefit anyone until a overhaul of the foundation is done.

I wonder if you do understand that technology costs money. It costs money to develop, deploy, and maintain. They can develop 1000Mbps fiber for the home, but neither one of us will be going to get that unless our ISP chooses to install that kind of infrastructure for all users.

OnLive can be great for people with 5mbps connections. How many people currently have that? How many people with 5Mbps want this service? People are getting laid off right now. They're not going to spend more on Internet over bills or food.

Read opinions on the Internet. Opinions from gamers and consumers alike. This is my last reply. I'm basically rehashing everything I said before in every post and it's getting tiresome.

Believe what you want.
 
Persuading customers that OnLive is better than anything else. It has worked on you.
look man, you have the right to think what u feel, nobody can tell you otherwise,
i'm saying it for the 5th and last time,
i'm not influenced by marketing technics, u can argue about it for as long as u live, i cancel it at this point and no further argueing is relevat, appropriate or needed.
internet infrastructure is growing, i don't give a # about all sort of persuation technics, nor on diversed words and tweaking of idea's,
marketing in one word, business technics, addvertising etc. etc.
you'r tone of speach has been changed, and became much more aggressive, arogant and self asure,
I'm probably the only one that even deals with you.
o.k, this is the last you hear from it, people came here, said what they had to say, i don't think these are noobe guys, people here seems to understand what they're talking about, but they are still humans, and make mistakes, think wrongfully and drifting aside.
u can view other threads, other posts, i think most of the replies were quite serious, specialized,
you'r kind of canceling an idea you don't realy know how it'll go, based on past knowledge, you'll have to take a fresh look at it, view the movement in the entire world, not just buiseness movement but the whole movement of it, the whole eternal movement of things, through politics, movement between countries, leaderships, everything, and not judging by viewing a sliced sector of it.

Based on the real-world factors, it isn't time. That has beem explained over and over.
Gary's mode is bullshit, it's somekind of a game,
onlive is a revolution.

You don't understand how OnLive works, do you? It is rendering games on their servers. The code is with them, and any future publisher will most likely not distribute their source code to the consumers. How will people create mods? There's no incentive for OnLive to release any of it, for free.
you don't know even what is going to happen tomorow.
If my ISP monitors me, I'd cancel that too. This is a violation of privacy.
how would you be able to know whether you'r ISP monitors you'r connection?
if u commit some felony, they can reach you by ISP's records don't they?
You said yourself that OnLive is marketing its ability to gather user data.
i never said they do it, i sayed, they can view peoples games as other do, they can have statistics on best users, most "popular" as people will be able to watch you play, they're doing this as a corelation, not as spying over people's dids.
1 billion Interner users. Not all users are on 5Mbps lines or even past 1Mbps.
that's they're problem, not all users can affort a new GPU, CPU etc. etc. and still are running on pentium 4's and geforce 7XXX.
few people will spend more on their Internet bill just to use this service,
in Japn u have 1Gbps connection for 35$/month fee, in U.K they plan on replenishing all the infrastructure to 20M lines and FTTH,
in the U.S about 25% of all users ahve more then 5Mbps connection, by Texito, more than 1/5 of the world internet users are using more than 5Mbps connection, in S.Korea they sit on 11Mbps Avg. and thats over 30% growth since the same quarter last year,
so what the heck are u talking about exactly??

A serious gamer isn't going to use this service. You should read the opinions of gamers on this around the Internet. It's all there, and a few minutes of research will go a long way.
i don't know how seriousness is related to constantly gaming, but that isn't the main targeted "population",
people that are "all the time" gaming usualy buy expensive hardware, larger screens etc. etc. and it doesn't seem to buther them, even though there is a claim that even better resolution
than the 5Mbps could allow is attainable with higher connection speeds.
I know that even if I can't afford the Internet, I'll still have something to play.
o.k, that's another thing, if one doesn't want to connect himself thats a different matter.
you don't have to subscribe OnLive as well.
I physically get to hold the game and the system that runs the game.
why doe's anyone need all this stuff from first place?
all the disks, they can get scratched, OS can sometime mailfunction having to format it, watch over the console, take it from here to there,
all this mess for what?
either if it's economically worthy for you, otherwise i can't see why.
If I wanted to do the same on OnLive, I'd at least have to have a 1.5Mbps
wow big deal, either u'r writing it from a coffee shop paying 10$ an hour, or at a friend,
otherwise,
so what?
it won't be available through some portions of africa in the next coming year, in rural places etc.
you know how much regularily a 1.5 connection is costing? about 10$ a month, thats it, another 15$ for the infrastructure,
you don't won't to log in, fine it's you'r deal,
most people who can afford it don't have any issue about it.
internet is becoming more and more like telephone, there is almost no person on this planet who doesn't know or heard about it,
i'm not sure ISP's won't be even giving it for free in the next years.
and nobody said it's going to be available EVERYWHERE tomorrow for god sakes!
I have to pay their subscription fee and in the end, hope that I can actually play something. What if my connection doesn't work? What if I go to a friend's house with no Internet? I can't use OnLive there. What if I can't afford the monthly fees? Everyone is gone.
o.k, then don't do it, don't put u'r self into that silly initiative,
they take u'r money, u have to be connected to the internet, if u jappen to be in the Muhave desert u can't use!
for heaven sakes, what this guys where thinking upon even?!?
What if I go to a friend's house with no Internet?
what if my car breaks down?
what if i fall of the steps and in the hospital they don't have it in the emergency room?
i'm all lost, ho!!
man give me a break!
It harms developers to only develop for one platform. It destroys competition and creates a monopoly.
that's exactly, if they'll all combine it'll be a bliss, no competition, shaking hands,
i hope Intel and AMD will do it too someday.
In six months, we'll still have the same crappy Internet. In the next few years, the same.
yeah yeah,
man, go to sleep,
i don't have to show you moore's law, forget about it, few years ago internet, what's going with KDDI Japan, NTT, in the U.K, WHAT IF THERE WOULD BE PEACE??? other statistics, there are so many things, Yale's first quantom CPU, differences between CPU's 2 years ago and today,
FTTH,NGN,VDSL's etc.
Technology can improve all they want, but it isn't going to benefit anyone until a overhaul of the foundation is done.
foundation? means?
I wonder if you do understand that technology costs money.
no, i do not understand it.
They can develop 1000Mbps fiber for the home, but neither one of us will be going to get that unless our ISP chooses to install that kind of infrastructure for all users.
i never knew that, i though you just plug the fiber to the outlet and "vwalla"! look it's magic!
OnLive can be great for people with 5mbps connections.
there are many.
How many people with 5Mbps want this service?
did you make a poll?
Read opinions on the Internet. Opinions from gamers and consumers alike.
i'm not looking for opinions but facts,
opinions change, doe to influences, happenings etc.
I'm basically rehashing everything I said before in every post and it's getting tiresome.
maybe you'r standing in place,
you never had to..

goodbye.
 
look man, you have the right to think what u feel, nobody can tell you otherwise,
i'm saying it for the 5th and last time,
i'm not influenced by marketing technics, u can argue about it for as long as u live, i cancel it at this point and no further argueing is relevat, appropriate or needed.
internet infrastructure is growing, i don't give a # about all sort of persuation technics, nor on diversed words and tweaking of idea's,
marketing in one word, business technics, addvertising etc. etc.
you'r tone of speach has been changed, and became much more aggressive, arogant and self asure,

Your posts barely make sense. Not a bit of "technical information" in anything.

o.k, this is the last you hear from it, people came here, said what they had to say, i don't think these are noobe guys, people here seems to understand what they're talking about, but they are still humans, and make mistakes, think wrongfully and drifting aside.
u can view other threads, other posts, i think most of the replies were quite serious, specialized,
you'r kind of canceling an idea you don't realy know how it'll go, based on past knowledge, you'll have to take a fresh look at it, view the movement in the entire world, not just buiseness movement but the whole movement of it, the whole eternal movement of things, through politics, movement between countries, leaderships, everything, and not judging by viewing a sliced sector of it.

So my replies aren't serious? If someone says that this service will not work, then they're a joke? You must be some kid, because anyone older would comprehend how things work. It's more than just "But Perlman said so and I believe so therefore you're wrong" going on in here.

Gary's mode is bullshit, it's somekind of a game,
onlive is a revolution.

Garry's Mod worked. OnLive is wishful thinking.

you don't know even what is going to happen tomorow.

Nothing will happen tomorrow. It still won't work in 2010. Maybe in your idea of an idealistic future where everyone pays for such a service, but in current times, no.

i never said they do it, i sayed, they can view peoples games as other do, they can have statistics on best users, most "popular" as people will be able to watch you play, they're doing this as a corelation, not as spying over people's dids.

Statistics don't include logging hours?

that's they're problem, not all users can affort a new GPU, CPU etc. etc. and still are running on pentium 4's and geforce 7XXX.

Not all users even play games. If they did, they're more likely to buy a console or buy/build a new computer.

in Japn u have 1Gbps connection for 35$/month fee, in U.K they plan on replenishing all the infrastructure to 20M lines and FTTH,
in the U.S about 25% of all users ahve more then 5Mbps connection, by Texito, more than 1/5 of the world internet users are using more than 5Mbps connection, in S.Korea they sit on 11Mbps Avg. and thats over 30% growth since the same quarter last year,
so what the heck are u talking about exactly??

Geographical size of Japan: 377,873 km2
Geographical size of S. Korea: 100,032 km2
Geographical size of UK: 244,820 km2
Geographical size of US: 9,826,630 km2

Population in Japan: 127mil+
Population of S. Korea: 48mil+
Population of UK: 61mil+
Population of US: 300mil+

That defines scale. It's easier for Japan and S. Korea to replace their infrastructure because people are much more centralized and the total land area is much smaller. Same for the UK. Every country has plans to replace their infrastructure, but it takes years to do so. Many more years for a country with 9.8 million km2 of land.

Provide your source on this "25% of US have 5Mbps". I'd like to see it. And also that "1/5 of the world" claim. I can throw out numbers too, but I don't see the need to.

i don't know how seriousness is related to constantly gaming, but that isn't the main targeted "population",
people that are "all the time" gaming usualy buy expensive hardware, larger screens etc. etc. and it doesn't seem to buther them, even though there is a claim that even better resolution
than the 5Mbps could allow is attainable with higher connection speeds.

Only serious people would be likely to sign up for 5Mbps speeds. The regular user browsing the web isn't going to spend $50 more on Internet. Regular users aren't as likely to buy into such a service due to constraints. It's much cheaper for them to get a console, regardless of what you think.

why doe's anyone need all this stuff from first place?
all the disks, they can get scratched, OS can sometime mailfunction having to format it, watch over the console, take it from here to there,
all this mess for what?
either if it's economically worthy for you, otherwise i can't see why.

Physical possessions have value. Data on their server does not.

If the company ever goes out of service, I would have spent a lot of money to receive nothing in the end. It's the same as renting a car forever. In the end, you don't own the car albeit making the same payments that a normal car payment would cost. If the rental company went down, you have no car.

I don't see many businesses with this model. I wonder why.

wow big deal, either u'r writing it from a coffee shop paying 10$ an hour, or at a friend,
otherwise,
so what?
it won't be available through some portions of africa in the next coming year, in rural places etc.
you know how much regularily a 1.5 connection is costing? about 10$ a month, thats it, another 15$ for the infrastructure,
you don't won't to log in, fine it's you'r deal,
most people who can afford it don't have any issue about it.
internet is becoming more and more like telephone, there is almost no person on this planet who doesn't know or heard about it,
i'm not sure ISP's won't be even giving it for free in the next years.
and nobody said it's going to be available EVERYWHERE tomorrow for god sakes!

This is ignorance at its best. I'm sure you're not paying any bills, or else you wouldn't make such a claim. 1Mbps is $20 at least, 3Mbps is $30 around me. And it's a fairly developed area. In less urban areas, some can barely get 768k for $20. Prices aren't universal.

ISPs have data caps, if you didn't know. They also throttle programs that use a lot of bandwidth (for example, Bittorrent). OnLive will either have to subsidize the ISP or the user in the end.

The problem you can't see is whom the business is targeting. People who don't want to upgrade are not going to shell out that much for Internet. But they're going to be the main market for OnLive, because people who have the money will not need this service. Why pay to run Crysis on 1024x768 when a $150 GPU upgrade will run it at 1680x1050? Service for 2 months with additional costs will already be more than that $150 upgrade.

o.k, then don't do it, don't put u'r self into that silly initiative,
they take u'r money, u have to be connected to the internet, if u jappen to be in the Muhave desert u can't use!
for heaven sakes, what this guys where thinking upon even?!?

Luckily, you'll never be in charge of any sort of Customer Service. No one is going to waste their hard-earned money on a service they can't use. Except maybe you.

what if my car breaks down?
what if i fall of the steps and in the hospital they don't have it in the emergency room?
i'm all lost, ho!!
man give me a break

Petty insults. And horrible, off-topic analogies.

that's exactly, if they'll all combine it'll be a bliss, no competition, shaking hands,
i hope Intel and AMD will do it too someday.

Everyone will be forced to play games that are only offered on the service. Games will only be developed for use on whatever cheap hardware they're using. No incentive for anyone to even pursue game development. No competition produces a price stronghold. What a great outlook.

yeah yeah,
man, go to sleep,
i don't have to show you moore's law, forget about it, few years ago internet, what's going with KDDI Japan, NTT, in the U.K, WHAT IF THERE WOULD BE PEACE??? other statistics, there are so many things, Yale's first quantom CPU, differences between CPU's 2 years ago and today,
FTTH,NGN,VDSL's etc.

It's daytime for me.

And you don't make much sense at all. Fiber optics is not going to go any faster, because the speed of light is constant. And passing through obstructions, light does not reach its potential. But all of this is moot because the infrastructure is still copper wires to almost every household. Moore's Law has been around for years, and we still have the same internet speeds. Although transistors are doubling, I still have the same wires from the 1990s. Some have much older lines.

foundation? means?

What do you think it means?

no, i do not understand it.

Obviously not.

They can develop 1000Mbps fiber for the home, but neither one of us will be going to get that unless our ISP chooses to install that kind of infrastructure for all users.
i never knew that, i though you just plug the fiber to the outlet and "vwalla"! look it's magic!

Your petty sarcastic remarks are not helping your case.

did you make a poll?

Ever heard of a rhetorical question?

Read opinions on the Internet. Opinions from gamers and consumers alike.
i'm not looking for opinions but facts,
opinions change, doe to influences, happenings etc.

You obviously do not want to listen to any facts. From the first page, there have been facts said by numerous people that this service will not work. But no, Steve Perlman said it'll work and he must be right.

Facts mean nothing to you. It's obvious because you can't grasp the problems at hand that has to be resolved. Opinions mean nothing to you, unless someone supports OnLive with a passion.

Please, if you do reply, reply with some substance. Petty insults are boring to me. And no more numbers without proof.
 
i'm just seek of quoting all the time,
nobody said, that people who disaprove this projects success are joking, nor that they are a joke, don't get the wrong impression here, people got here the best effort replies whether they denyed it or think it'll be good, both at the thread and in PM's if it was needed.

how things work
o.k, go on, explain master of wisdom, how things do work,
i'm just a kid, i'll listen.

Garry's Mod worked. OnLive is wishful thinking.
this Gary mod is a peanut, wishful or not that's u'r claim, i see it happening.

you don't know even what is going to happen tomorow.
thats a fact, no further unasked for explaination will be given or is corrently necessary.

Maybe in your idea
you know nothing of this person you'r speaking to! please be humble.

Statistics don't include logging hours?
who gives a sh#@ man, realy, cut that crap.

If they did, they're more likely to buy a console or buy/build a new computer.
not entirely true, or better said, not true, entirely.

It's easier for Japan and S. Korea to replace their infrastructure because people are much more centralized and the total land area is much smaller.
Japan is not so easy to build infrastructure upon, there are about 3000 islands sourounding it, mountains etc.,
it's better related to the way of thinking over this area of the world, KDDI's aproach etc.,
there are much smaller countries that are having much larger difficulties with it.
i think 1/5 of the world users are enough, more than enough, i don't even consider anyone arguing about that,
needed to say europe??
please argue about more relevant issues,
u'r actualy living inside a U.S bubble,
and nobody said, OnLive WILL NEED FTTH!
Provide your source on this "25% of US have 5Mbps"
i won't provide you with anything, i have nothing needed to be prooven to you, you got the name of the site,
add some googlish words at it, and find it.

Rob anyone, can u please take away this guy,
i just read the claims, which are so redicilous, i can't even answer them.

Physical possessions have value. Data on their server does not.
crapppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
crap, crap crap!!!

If the company ever goes out of service, I would have spent a lot of money to receive nothing in the end.
yeah, that surely happens every day,
we should backup all our harddisks and put the data in a safe!
what if u'll get fire in you'r house and everything will get burned??
seriously where do you get these claims??

It's the same as renting a car forever.
WTF*10 this has anything to do with renting an automobile!?!
i just want to give u a slap on you'r head and send you back home.

I don't see many businesses with this model. I wonder why.
alla istur! (it's not a curse),

This is ignorance at its best. I'm sure you're not paying any bills, or else you wouldn't make such a claim.
differents parts of the world, it has been investigated, this is NOT the main issue here,
again, you know nothing about the person you'r "writing to".
if u'r so stubborn about it, just go over the link, even go speedtest.net and watch the figures,
if the internet is THAT expensive and unattainable as u describe, i guess you just live inside u'r area bubble, not even the U.S bubble.. (the first time here to been giving u a friendly gesture).

ISPs have data caps, if you didn't know
i just want to tell get the F off.
again, you'r not even going to get an answer.

look, it's a waste of time,
i go reading u'r "claims" and don't know what to tell you,
i just hope someone will come here and shut u up until u'll take a good rest.

o.k i just stop in the middle, if u want u can keep on, i'll just go bug people somewhere else,
u seemed serious at the beggining, u sounded even reasonable,
i don't know where this is going and have no intentions to proceed.




 
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