Is Obama really a bad president?

[dank69]

The problem I have with Obamacare is the massive power grab and empowerment of the federal government's bureaucracy, NOT the individual mandate.

The only problem I have with the mandate is it's not a fix.

PROBLEM: People can't afford insurance.
SOLUTION: We'll MAKE them buy it.

I think if we're going to have universal coverage whether at the state or federal level, we have to have a mechanism to force people to buy health insurance. However, since most people want health insurance, that's not a solution to the problem of affordability.

There are multiple problems and multiple solutions. You take one problem and then claim that a solution to a different problem is actually the proposed solution to the original problem and then use that as your argument against it. You have a false premise. The actuality is this:

PROBLEM: People that can afford insurance often do not.
SOLUTION: We'll MAKE them buy it.

PROBLEM: People can't afford insurance.
SOLUTION: Government will subsidize the purchase of health insurance for people below the poverty line.

 

[xBiffx]

PROBLEM: People that can afford insurance often do not.
PROBLEM MADE WORSE: We'll MAKE them buy it.

PROBLEM: People can't afford insurance.
PROBLEM MADE WORSE: Government will subsidize the purchase of health insurance for people below the pverty line.

Fixed your "solutions."

 

[dank69]

Fixed your "solutions."

Your 'fixing' will be valid the day you provide at least some logic to support your position. Logical fallacies don't count. I won't hold my breath.

 

[ky54]

The single biggest failure of the Obama administration is it's claims it would be the most open administration in history. LOL, puleeze.

 

[xBiffx]

Your 'fixing' will be valid the day you provide at least some logic to support your position. Logical fallacies don't count. I won't hold my breath.

PROBLEM: People that can afford insurance often do not.
SOLUTION: We'll MAKE them buy it.

How is making people buy insurance fixing the made up problem of them not buying it? How is not buying something you don't want a problem again? So forcing people to spend money somehow fixes things. I think my edit holds true, well except that there really is no problem to be made worse to begin with.

PROBLEM: People can't afford insurance.
SOLUTION: Government will subsidize the purchase of health insurance for people below the poverty line.

How is throwing money at a problem a fix? Also, if it were just this simple OK it changes the problem. The real problem is there are too many strings attached to that government subsidy. Enough strings where my edit becomes true yet again.

 

[dank69]

How is making people buy insurance fixing the made up problem of them not buying it? How is not buying something you don't want a problem again? So forcing people to spend money somehow fixes things. I think my edit holds true, well except that there really is no problem to be made worse to begin with.

It's a problem when someone gets sick or hurt and they have no insurance to pay for the medical care that the hospitals are required to render. You and I pay for that medical care with our taxes. If you don't like people buying lobster with the welfare check you pay for it is the same exact concept.

How is throwing money at a problem a fix? Also, if it were just this simple OK it changes the problem.

Throwing money at a problem is often the best way to fix said problem, especially when the problem is that someone doesn't have enough money.

The real problem is there are too many strings attached to that government subsidy. Enough strings where my edit becomes true yet again.

What strings are we talking about here?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Ya Obama sucks bad , But I voting for him . If there is an election in 2012. I can't prove anything against Obama . But I can prove Election Fraud by the GOP . As I witnessed and seen with my own eyes. The GOP illegally caucused on the 12th . for the 1st district in MN. By submitting a a ballot of names they put together on the 12th at a meeting . They actually caucused on the 12th. Which is illegal. How else could a ballot exist befor the real caucus date of the 17th of March . They deserve to be hung but nothing will happen . We have lost America . So now I vote for Obama . I want Obama to get FULL credit for Americas downfall as he deserves this honor. Vote Obama 2012

 

[xBiffx]

You and I pay for that medical care with our taxes.

Absolutely false. The hospitals get stuck with most of the bill. If the patient is able to pay, the hospital will collect through other means (i.e. collections or small claims). If the patient is not able to pay then that's another matter. And if some of it is getting picked up by the tax payer then how is that any different than government subsidizing that you think is another solution?

What strings are we talking about here?

Read the thread.

 

[Jaskalas]

I don't know much about him, but most of what I've heard has been good. And yet a lot of people seem to hate him. What am I missing here? He looks like a godsend compared to the carnival of freaks running for president.

Ah the joys of naivety. He has a D after his name, it really does just come down to that. Anything else is just decor. To solve the underlying issue behind your question, look up partisan.

You really don't think our two party system is healthy do you? It leads us to a bloodsport of rooting for our home team while expressing acts of violence against the other. Truth and objectivity are removed to facilitate our partisanship. That's why the President is a Communist Muslim Space Alien, at least in the eyes of team R.

You should have heard the things said about the previous President, and for that Harvey can fill you in on treacherous criminal cabals filled with thieves, rapists, and murderers. Along with a bunch of angry faces and down thumbs.

FYI, people hate each other.

 

[dank69]

Absolutely false. The hospitals get stuck with most of the bill. If the patient is able to pay, the hospital will collect through other means (i.e. collections or small claims). If the patient is not able to pay then that's another matter. And if some of it is getting picked up by the tax payer then how is that any different than government subsidizing that you think is another solution?

Ah yes, some is passed on through taxes and the rest is passed on through more expensive medical care which leads to more expensive insurance which leads to more people that can't afford insurance which leads back to more uninsured people. This law is designed to help stop the cycle.

Read the thread.

The only thing in this thread that I can see is your ambiguous claim to the involvement of the IRS. The IRS would need to be involved if there are to be tax credits for the purchase of health insurance and fines/penalties for not purchasing health insurance. The IRS is already involved in every American's life as it is, so claiming this as a 'string attached' is really reaching. If you meant some other string, please quote it for me.

 

[Paul98]

It's hard to really know how Obama did as a president until years after he is out of office. When the full impact of what he did as president went through, and we see their results. Right now I would say he is doing an average job, if he wasn't so naive the first couple years in office I think he would have done much better.

 

[IGBT]

your obama is profoundly arrogant and ignorant. And afraid. His self esteem brain washing has failed.

 

[thraashman]

So far I'd say Obama is a mediocre President. He's been better than Bush 1, Bush 2, Carter, Nixon, Ford. Worse than Clinton. And about equal to Reagan. Though that's actual Reagan, not the current GOP image of Jesus Reagan.

He's continued too many bad policies of the Bush admin. Should never have allowed continuing the Bush tax cuts or Patriot Act. I'll give him credit on not caving in a few times more recently such as the pipeline, but he definitely caved a bit too much early on. I am however in support of the few good Bush policies (the 3 or so he had) that Obama continued, such as the auto industry bailout that began under Bush.

As far as the Affordable Healthcare Act, my main issue is that it's far too weak and didn't do enough. It's an overly complex bandaid on a patient that is bleeding to death from a gaping wound. Though I blame all sides on that. Republicans for refusing to work together with Democrats and being the most obstructionist minority party in the history of the US Senate. Democrats for holding out for special treatment for their district despite having a super majority. Obama for not putting his foot down on the bullshit that was going on in Congress.

Part of Obama's problem with his Presidency oddly enough is the opposition party. During his first two years the Senate minority party obstructed Congress more than any 3 terms of the Senate combined in the history of the US. It's the only time in history where a leader of the party came out and admitted they'd rather see America fail than work alongside the President. I can't fault Obama for that because it's not his fault the GOP has turned into the worst political group of human beings ever to exist in this country (I would say worst group, but Charles Manson had too many followers).

In the end part of the problem with Obama's Presidency is simple stupidity. He's not a great President, he probably ranks in the lower tiers of good so maybe he's an OK President. However, your average Fox News viewer/Rush Limbaugh listener is has an intelligence level just slightly above a semi-retarded parrot. They can repeat what they hear but don't have the capability to know what it means or think for themselves. I think thanks to Rush, Hannity, Beck, etc that Mike Judge's vision of the future will become correct and we are heading quickly towards Idiocracy.

 

[ky54]

Did you support Obama bombing Libya?

 

[nonlnear]

It's the only time in history where a leader of the party came out and admitted they'd rather see America fail than work alongside the President.

What quote are you referencing here? I forget a lot of the details of the latest fustercluck of a Congress. (I'm not particularly fond of the Congressional GOP either.)

 

[werepossum]

What quote are you referencing here? I forget a lot of the details of the latest fustercluck of a Congress. (I'm not particularly fond of the Congressional GOP either.)

He's obviously talking about Limbaugh saying he hopes Obama fails and then conflating Obama with America. Obviously the two fates are not inextricably connected; Carter certainly failed and failed hard, but America recovered just fine.

Both parties hope that Presidents of the opposite party fail; that's their path to power. Both parties have America's best interests (as they see them) at heart. Believing that this is something new, or that someone who wishes that a particular President fails is wishing that America fails with him, is evidence of abysmal stupidity or complete and utter dishonesty for political purposes.

 

[thraashman]

What quote are you referencing here? I forget a lot of the details of the latest fustercluck of a Congress. (I'm not particularly fond of the Congressional GOP either.)

Admittedly I'm dramaticising rather than actually quoting. Mitch McConnell said that the number one priority of the GOP in Congress was to ensure that Obama is a one term President. It was a little disgusting to hear when the country needs legislaters to have fixing the economy, jobs, healthcare, defense, anything else as the number one priority. And it's obvious that if the GOP works with Obama to fix the country, then they're working against their goal of keeping him from being re-elected. I personally found it to be one of the most despicable things an American politician has said in my lifetime.

 

[Ausm]

You wish.

True story....How Republicans came up with the individual mandate that they now hate?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/20...e-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/

 

[nageov3t]

True story....How Republicans came up with the individual mandate that they now hate?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/20...e-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/

does it really matter?

 

[Ausm]

does it really matter?

Yes, because it clearly illustrates Repuglican hypocrisy as the Right Wing Talking points against ACA are centered around the individual mandate being unconstitutional.

 

[nageov3t]

Yes, because it clearly illustrates Repuglican hypocrisy as the Right Wing Talking points against ACA are centered around the individual mandate being unconstitutional.

does Republican hypocrisy make it less of a terrible idea, though?

 

[QuantumPion]

Obama may go down as one of the most damaging presidents in the history of America. Look at the precedent he is setting with his executive orders, regulatory enforcement, and Tzars. Just look at his latest one, passed last Friday. It basically gives Obama the authority to confiscate any farm, food, or food products, supersede any existing contracts or property rights, and redistribute them for the "common good". All in the name of providing for the common defense of the country. I.e. - it is in the interest of the defense of the country that we have enough food. Therefore, we have the authority to nationalize all farms. I am not making this shit up.

 

[Ausm]

does Republican hypocrisy make it less of a terrible idea, though?

That's not the issue of the OP,the issue is who came up with it originally.

 

[Ausm]

Obama may go down as one of the most damaging presidents in the history of America. Look at the precedent he is setting with his executive orders, regulatory enforcement, and Tzars. Just look at his latest one, passed last Friday. It basically gives Obama the authority to confiscate any farm, food, or food products, supersede any existing contracts or property rights, and redistribute them for the "common good". All in the name of providing for the common defense of the country. I.e. - it is in the interest of the defense of the country that we have enough food. Therefore, we have the authority to nationalize all farms. I am not making this shit up.

LMAO do you really believe this over the top diatribe??? We'll see if the American electorate agrees with you in Nov...I think your party is going to get DESTROYED.

/lawnchair
/popcorn

 

[BoberFett]

Inasmuch as I disagree with a large portion of what the federal government does, yes he's a bad president as are almost all federal representatives bad represenatives.

Relatively speaking? No, he's not a bad president, not any worse than others we've had in the past 50 years.