Is now really the time to clamp down on drilling?

[CPA]

There's a move afoot to reestablish moratoriums on coastal drilling.

Now is exactly the time to drill - costs for construction have come down, it will help create real jobs and help lessen our need for foreign oil. Yes, it may be less cost-effective for private companies to drill, but Chevron and several mid-sized companies are drilling in new finds in the Gulf. It's not been shut down completely.

This doesn't mean we should or will give up on alternative energy, but we are not going to remove ourselves from oil in the immediate future. If we don't act now, we will be hearing the same complaints 2-5 years from now when oil prices start to rise as a result of our inaction.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: CPA
There's a move afoot to reestablish moratoriums on coastal drilling.

Now is exactly the time to drill - costs for construction have come down, it will help create real jobs and help lessen our need for foreign oil. Yes, it may be less cost-effective for private companies to drill, but Chevron and several mid-sized companies are drilling in new finds in the Gulf. It's not been shut down completely.

This doesn't mean we should or will give up on alternative energy, but we are not going to remove ourselves from oil in the immediate future. If we don't act now, we will be hearing the same complaints 2-5 years from now when oil prices start to rise as a result of our inaction.

The 'people' that don't get it are you.

We're not in trouble for lack of drilling. Prices aren't up for lack of drilling. We don't have the refinery capacity to deal with more raw anyway. Regardless of how much we find, amounts are still finite and therefore a wasted investment. Only non-fossil, renewable energies have long-term value for research and investment.

You want prices controlled, end speculation, hedging, and other money for nothing market plays. Regulation controls prices, not drilling.

That's not even touching environment or aesthetic concerns (which are far more important overall than short-term economic gains).

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: CPA
There's a move afoot to reestablish moratoriums on coastal drilling.

Now is exactly the time to drill - costs for construction have come down, it will help create real jobs and help lessen our need for foreign oil. Yes, it may be less cost-effective for private companies to drill, but Chevron and several mid-sized companies are drilling in new finds in the Gulf. It's not been shut down completely.

This doesn't mean we should or will give up on alternative energy, but we are not going to remove ourselves from oil in the immediate future. If we don't act now, we will be hearing the same complaints 2-5 years from now when oil prices start to rise as a result of our inaction.

The 'people' that don't get it are you.

We're not in trouble for lack of drilling. Prices aren't up for lack of drilling. We don't have the refinery capacity to deal with more raw anyway. Regardless of how much we find, amounts are still finite and therefore a wasted investment. Only non-fossil, renewable energies have long-term value for research and investment.

You want prices controlled, end speculation, hedging, and other money for nothing market plays. Regulation controls prices, not drilling.

That's not even touching environment or aesthetic concerns (which are far more important overall than short-term economic gains).

Wind and solar are REALLY the only 2.

Anything else is a pipe dream.

Hydrogen and Ethanol FOR THE EXTREME LOSS!!!!

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: CPA
There's a move afoot to reestablish moratoriums on coastal drilling.

Now is exactly the time to drill - costs for construction have come down, it will help create real jobs and help lessen our need for foreign oil. Yes, it may be less cost-effective for private companies to drill, but Chevron and several mid-sized companies are drilling in new finds in the Gulf. It's not been shut down completely.

This doesn't mean we should or will give up on alternative energy, but we are not going to remove ourselves from oil in the immediate future. If we don't act now, we will be hearing the same complaints 2-5 years from now when oil prices start to rise as a result of our inaction.

The 'people' that don't get it are you.

We're not in trouble for lack of drilling. Prices aren't up for lack of drilling. We don't have the refinery capacity to deal with more raw anyway. Regardless of how much we find, amounts are still finite and therefore a wasted investment. Only non-fossil, renewable energies have long-term value for research and investment.

You want prices controlled, end speculation, hedging, and other money for nothing market plays. Regulation controls prices, not drilling.

That's not even touching environment or aesthetic concerns (which are far more important overall than short-term economic gains).

Wind and solar are REALLY the only 2.

Anything else is a pipe dream.

Hydrogen and Ethanol FOR THE EXTREME LOSS!!!!

I tend to agree, but I would add in nuclear as possibilities (fusion reactors, if the current problems are solved, would be considered renewable in a sense). Besides, if we are looking at a long-term movement to renewables for energy, perhaps it is good that we dont' drill as much of our own oil. Petroleum is much more valuable for other uses than burning it to generate heat. (fertilizers and other consumer products come to mind)

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

We don't have the refinery capacity to deal with more raw anyway. Regardless of how much we find, amounts are still finite and therefore a wasted investment. .

last i heard, refinery usage was at like record lows.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

We don't have the refinery capacity to deal with more raw anyway. Regardless of how much we find, amounts are still finite and therefore a wasted investment. .

last i heard, refinery usage was at like record lows.

Not because of lack of supply...they're artificially throttled to increase prices/profits. We've been closing them left and right for years...leaving the ones that get shut down a few times a year due to natural disasters (allowing frequent spikes in oil company profits).

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: CPA
There's a move afoot to reestablish moratoriums on coastal drilling.

Now is exactly the time to drill - costs for construction have come down, it will help create real jobs and help lessen our need for foreign oil. Yes, it may be less cost-effective for private companies to drill, but Chevron and several mid-sized companies are drilling in new finds in the Gulf. It's not been shut down completely.

This doesn't mean we should or will give up on alternative energy, but we are not going to remove ourselves from oil in the immediate future. If we don't act now, we will be hearing the same complaints 2-5 years from now when oil prices start to rise as a result of our inaction.

The 'people' that don't get it are you.

We're not in trouble for lack of drilling. Prices aren't up for lack of drilling. We don't have the refinery capacity to deal with more raw anyway. Regardless of how much we find, amounts are still finite and therefore a wasted investment. Only non-fossil, renewable energies have long-term value for research and investment.

You want prices controlled, end speculation, hedging, and other money for nothing market plays. Regulation controls prices, not drilling.

That's not even touching environment or aesthetic concerns (which are far more important overall than short-term economic gains).

Wind and solar are REALLY the only 2.

Anything else is a pipe dream.

Hydrogen and Ethanol FOR THE EXTREME LOSS!!!!

I tend to agree, but I would add in nuclear as possibilities (fusion reactors, if the current problems are solved, would be considered renewable in a sense). Besides, if we are looking at a long-term movement to renewables for energy, perhaps it is good that we dont' drill as much of our own oil. Petroleum is much more valuable for other uses than burning it to generate heat. (fertilizers and other consumer products come to mind)

The trouble here is that Obama's Energy Secretary is staunchly against nuclear.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Chalk up another lie for Obama.. he was for drilling before he was against it.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Chalk up another lie for Obama.. he was for drilling before he was against it.

He was for drilling before the bubble burst and there was no denying that there was no supply/demand issue causing those prices. C'mon. Get with the program. People can change their positions after evaluating newly obtained information and/or experiences. Maybe you are just not used to seeing that these past few years.

 

[Moonbeam]

There needs to be a go to the man to the moon project on solar energy and capacitance batteries and a new energy grid.

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: CPA
There's a move afoot to reestablish moratoriums on coastal drilling.

Now is exactly the time to drill - costs for construction have come down, it will help create real jobs and help lessen our need for foreign oil. Yes, it may be less cost-effective for private companies to drill, but Chevron and several mid-sized companies are drilling in new finds in the Gulf. It's not been shut down completely.

This doesn't mean we should or will give up on alternative energy, but we are not going to remove ourselves from oil in the immediate future. If we don't act now, we will be hearing the same complaints 2-5 years from now when oil prices start to rise as a result of our inaction.

The 'people' that don't get it are you.

We're not in trouble for lack of drilling. Prices aren't up for lack of drilling. We don't have the refinery capacity to deal with more raw anyway. Regardless of how much we find, amounts are still finite and therefore a wasted investment. Only non-fossil, renewable energies have long-term value for research and investment.

You want prices controlled, end speculation, hedging, and other money for nothing market plays. Regulation controls prices, not drilling.

That's not even touching environment or aesthetic concerns (which are far more important overall than short-term economic gains).

Wind and solar are REALLY the only 2.

Anything else is a pipe dream.

Hydrogen and Ethanol FOR THE EXTREME LOSS!!!!

Are you saying your not in favor of hydrogen?

Don't rule it out yet....


Some Penn State researchers are taking a cue from nature and have built the first solar cell that can effectively split water to harvest the hydrogen. While the technology and efficiency of electricity-gathering solar cells has been humming on nicely, cells that can pull hydrogen out of water directly (instead of using solar-harvested electricity to do it) have found that the catalysts conducive to separating hydrogen and oxygen are usually pretty good at putting the two gases right back together again. The folks at Penn State have now developed a process that more closely mimics the photosynthesis process in plants, and while we won't pretend to understand all the nitty gritty of dye usage and other such nonsense, we do know that such a system could eventually attain 15% or so efficiency, providing a nice and clean way to gather power for that fuel cell car of the future.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: ericlp

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: CPA
There's a move afoot to reestablish moratoriums on coastal drilling.

Now is exactly the time to drill - costs for construction have come down, it will help create real jobs and help lessen our need for foreign oil. Yes, it may be less cost-effective for private companies to drill, but Chevron and several mid-sized companies are drilling in new finds in the Gulf. It's not been shut down completely.

This doesn't mean we should or will give up on alternative energy, but we are not going to remove ourselves from oil in the immediate future. If we don't act now, we will be hearing the same complaints 2-5 years from now when oil prices start to rise as a result of our inaction.

The 'people' that don't get it are you.

We're not in trouble for lack of drilling. Prices aren't up for lack of drilling. We don't have the refinery capacity to deal with more raw anyway. Regardless of how much we find, amounts are still finite and therefore a wasted investment. Only non-fossil, renewable energies have long-term value for research and investment.

You want prices controlled, end speculation, hedging, and other money for nothing market plays. Regulation controls prices, not drilling.

That's not even touching environment or aesthetic concerns (which are far more important overall than short-term economic gains).

Wind and solar are REALLY the only 2.

Anything else is a pipe dream.

Hydrogen and Ethanol FOR THE EXTREME LOSS!!!!

Are you saying your not in favor of hydrogen?

Don't rule it out yet....


Some Penn State researchers are taking a cue from nature and have built the first solar cell that can effectively split water to harvest the hydrogen. While the technology and efficiency of electricity-gathering solar cells has been humming on nicely, cells that can pull hydrogen out of water directly (instead of using solar-harvested electricity to do it) have found that the catalysts conducive to separating hydrogen and oxygen are usually pretty good at putting the two gases right back together again. The folks at Penn State have now developed a process that more closely mimics the photosynthesis process in plants, and while we won't pretend to understand all the nitty gritty of dye usage and other such nonsense, we do know that such a system could eventually attain 15% or so efficiency, providing a nice and clean way to gather power for that fuel cell car of the future.

If a process doesnt require more engery and resources than what you get out, then im for it.

But you dont want to burn coal to get hydrogen.

 

[herm0016]

Originally posted by: ericlp

Are you saying your not in favor of hydrogen?

Don't rule it out yet....


Some Penn State researchers are taking a cue from nature and have built the first solar cell that can effectively split water to harvest the hydrogen. While the technology and efficiency of electricity-gathering solar cells has been humming on nicely, cells that can pull hydrogen out of water directly (instead of using solar-harvested electricity to do it) have found that the catalysts conducive to separating hydrogen and oxygen are usually pretty good at putting the two gases right back together again. The folks at Penn State have now developed a process that more closely mimics the photosynthesis process in plants, and while we won't pretend to understand all the nitty gritty of dye usage and other such nonsense, we do know that such a system could eventually attain 15% or so efficiency, providing a nice and clean way to gather power for that fuel cell car of the future.

yes... but its a silicon solar cell producing electricity that splits the water with simple electrolysis with a little bit different catalyst. its good research, but its misreported. hydrogen will never be a fuel source. its time we start getting people to realize this. its simply a way to store energy. just like a battery. some guy at mit did this too.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Regulation controls prices, not drilling.

While I agree that renewable energy sources offer much better long term return on investment, regulation does not control prices. Oh, it effects prices, to be certain. Usually by turning the market into a flustercluck.

Supply and demand controls prices. No amount of government regulation will ever change that.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Regulation controls prices, not drilling.

While I agree that renewable energy sources offer much better long term return on investment, regulation does not control prices. Oh, it effects prices, to be certain. Usually by turning the market into a flustercluck.

Supply and demand controls prices. No amount of government regulation will ever change that.

No, in an ideal vacuum supply and demand controls prices. We don't live in a vacuum or an ideal society.

Greedy selfish bastards sacrifice workers, citizens, and the future in order to make an extra buck now by artificially inflating prices/earnings. Failure to regulate these practices allows them, thus losing control of prices.

Regulation prevents the powerful (rather through money or position) from exploiting the weaker. I'm not talking about purely artificial controls, like minimum wages and such. I'm talking about tax loopholes, special interest legislation, environmental controls, worker rights legislation, oversight, etc.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: CPA
There's a move afoot to reestablish moratoriums on coastal drilling.

Now is exactly the time to drill - costs for construction have come down, it will help create real jobs and help lessen our need for foreign oil. Yes, it may be less cost-effective for private companies to drill, but Chevron and several mid-sized companies are drilling in new finds in the Gulf. It's not been shut down completely.

This doesn't mean we should or will give up on alternative energy, but we are not going to remove ourselves from oil in the immediate future. If we don't act now, we will be hearing the same complaints 2-5 years from now when oil prices start to rise as a result of our inaction.

The 'people' that don't get it are you.

We're not in trouble for lack of drilling. Prices aren't up for lack of drilling. We don't have the refinery capacity to deal with more raw anyway. Regardless of how much we find, amounts are still finite and therefore a wasted investment. Only non-fossil, renewable energies have long-term value for research and investment.

You want prices controlled, end speculation, hedging, and other money for nothing market plays. Regulation controls prices, not drilling.

That's not even touching environment or aesthetic concerns (which are far more important overall than short-term economic gains).

Wind and solar are REALLY the only 2.

Anything else is a pipe dream.

Hydrogen and Ethanol FOR THE EXTREME LOSS!!!!

Good luck filling up your cars tank with wind and solar.

 

[Jhhnn]

Good luck filling up your cars tank with wind and solar.

That'll require a paradigm shift, but seems to be doable-

electric cars
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02...tGeAb6yCwPVZzcgT4WhgZw

Hydropower shouldn't be overlooked, either- the West is full of reservoirs entirely capable of being retrofitted for electricity generation. The engineering work was actually done in many cases, but the hydropower component was scrapped because of budgetary or other economic constraints at the time...

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn

Good luck filling up your cars tank with wind and solar.

That'll require a paradigm shift, but seems to be doable-

electric cars
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02...tGeAb6yCwPVZzcgT4WhgZw

Doable long term yes. But not anytime soon. IF every care was electric starting right now, it would take a couple of decades to turn over the entire fleet of cars.

 

[Jhhnn]

I think you're right, to a point, charrison. OTOH, if we've learned nothing else over the last several years, we should have learned that it's important to think longterm, to look past the ends of our noses...

I think it's important for us to realize that hydrogen was just another election year humjob, as well. We've seen a lot of them recently...

 

[manowar821]

It was never the time to drill.

 

[jjzelinski]

It's mind blowing what issues the wingnuts will latch on to. Seriously, wtf should anyone care about drilling? Why is that a pressing issue? Hell, the only reason I see it as controversial is due to the mindless ditto heads latching onto the issue as if it really has any bearing on their livelihood. IT DOESN'T, YOU MORONS.

"Drill baby drill!" GOD you folks love your partially hydrogenated sound bytes. Yeah drill NOW so in 15-20 years we can all capitalize on that huge amount of oil when our refining capacity is finally increased to even accommodate it!

I chalk this kind of thoughtlessness to laziness. God forbid we take a moment to evaluate things for ourselves instead of feeding off of the pre-digested thoughts from the mouth of mama-bird. TURN OFF THE TALK RADIO.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: herm0016

Originally posted by: ericlp

Are you saying your not in favor of hydrogen?

Don't rule it out yet....


Some Penn State researchers are taking a cue from nature and have built the first solar cell that can effectively split water to harvest the hydrogen. While the technology and efficiency of electricity-gathering solar cells has been humming on nicely, cells that can pull hydrogen out of water directly (instead of using solar-harvested electricity to do it) have found that the catalysts conducive to separating hydrogen and oxygen are usually pretty good at putting the two gases right back together again. The folks at Penn State have now developed a process that more closely mimics the photosynthesis process in plants, and while we won't pretend to understand all the nitty gritty of dye usage and other such nonsense, we do know that such a system could eventually attain 15% or so efficiency, providing a nice and clean way to gather power for that fuel cell car of the future.

yes... but its a silicon solar cell producing electricity that splits the water with simple electrolysis with a little bit different catalyst. its good research, but its misreported. hydrogen will never be a fuel source. its time we start getting people to realize this. its simply a way to store energy. just like a battery. some guy at mit did this too.

Hydrogen shouldn't be considered an energy SOURCE. It should be considered an energy storage medium. As it stands, the conversion of hydrogen into water + energy is pretty efficient. The problem is storing/obtaining it in the first place. If it is done by renewables, then it is a good alternative. However, a move towards any sort of hydrogen infrastructure shouldn't be done until we have sufficient renewable generating methods already in place.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I think you're right, to a point, charrison. OTOH, if we've learned nothing else over the last several years, we should have learned that it's important to think longterm, to look past the ends of our noses...

It hink we also learned the value of domestic production.

I think it's important for us to realize that hydrogen was just another election year humjob, as well. We've seen a lot of them recently...

[/quote]

It is a promising technology. However much works still needs to be done...

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: jjzelinski
It's mind blowing what issues the wingnuts will latch on to. Seriously, wtf should anyone care about drilling? Why is that a pressing issue? Hell, the only reason I see it as controversial is due to the mindless ditto heads latching onto the issue as if it really has any bearing on their livelihood. IT DOESN'T, YOU MORONS.

"Drill baby drill!" GOD you folks love your partially hydrogenated sound bytes. Yeah drill NOW so in 15-20 years we can all capitalize on that huge amount of oil when our refining capacity is finally increased to even accommodate it!

I chalk this kind of thoughtlessness to laziness. God forbid we take a moment to evaluate things for ourselves instead of feeding off of the pre-digested thoughts from the mouth of mama-bird. TURN OFF THE TALK RADIO.

I guess I should tear up all my oil and gas working interests I've invested in all these years since I should not care about it. Sorry kid but "big oil" is mom's and dad's across this land doing the drilling. It's land owners leasing their drilling rights. It's roughnecks doing the work at good pay. Chances are anyone with a mutual fund account has big oil in their account. http://www.energytomorrow.org/media/resources/r_444.jpg

More drilling provides cheaper gas at the pump for all and tax revenue for cash strapped states like California.

In sum, only moron here is kids who don't understand the vast implications petroleum economics.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn

Good luck filling up your cars tank with wind and solar.

That'll require a paradigm shift, but seems to be doable-

electric cars
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02...tGeAb6yCwPVZzcgT4WhgZw

Hydropower shouldn't be overlooked, either- the West is full of reservoirs entirely capable of being retrofitted for electricity generation. The engineering work was actually done in many cases, but the hydropower component was scrapped because of budgetary or other economic constraints at the time...

Electric charged via a variety of means should be the future for light cars but will nessesitate a massive public investment which is a bit of a problem ATM. Airplanes, trucks and construction equipment will always be petroleum powered for obvious reasons.

Light cars would require a standardized and subsidized battery pack(s) which would be switched upon 'fill up' for convenience and road trips. This would cost approx 1 trillion dollars just in batteries.

It would require subsidizing current gas stations carrying those quick change packs.

It would require upgrading our electrical grids and transformers.

More power generation via coal, nuclear, wind etc to charge the batteries. Plants costs lots of money.

paradigm shift indeed... problem is petro will fall though floor as these changes are taking place taking the will away from such a shift so I question it could happen especially as tar sands and oil shale petro extraction becomes more effective since we have so much of them, more than the rest of the world, taking away the geopolitical reasoning...

Will be interesting to watch though.