Is my system good enough

[alienpredatover]

At the moment, I own an:
- Pentium D 820 2,8Ghz Smithfield
- 2Gb DDR2
- 150Gb Hard Drive 7200 RPM
- Old Screen that allows 1280*1024 max res
- ATI 3450 256mb
- ASUS P5VD2-VM

During the last couple of months I start playing a few games for curiosity, games I thought that wouldn't run on my PC (NFS Most Wanted, PES 10, Assassins Creed, Street Fighter IV)

Most of those games I can run at 1024*768 with medium detail, but no AA, etc... yet, for my concept of quality, that is not so bad... at the time I most enjoyed computer games (1999-2001 period) to play a game at 1024*768 full detail was almost the best you could get (I remember my old GeForce 2 GTS and the all I wanted that unafordable Ultra!!!)

I read some reviews recently and I have a nice opinion about the GeForce 9600GT the ATI4670, they affordable for my wallet plus they seem to run most of actual games fairly (1024*768 full detail I suppose)

My questions are:
. would my CPU be a botleneck for those cards?
. does it worth to buy one of those graphics card knowing that this system wont get better than this (I mean actually there is, core 2 duo, quad, i5, i7, phenom, dx11, etc)
. if I swap my processor to some low amd/intel model, would I feel a huge difference in games? (10, 30, 100 more fps?)
. should I use a 64bit version of windows? will that grant me better perfomances?

My aim is to play the latest games at 1024*768 high detail, would it be worthwile to buy one of those graphics card or wait, save money and buy everything new later (CPU, RAM, GPU)

 

[Magusigne]

At the moment, I own an:
- Pentium D 820 2,8Ghz Smithfield
- 2Gb DDR2
- 150Gb Hard Drive 7200 RPM
- Old Screen that allows 1280*1024 max res
- ATI 3450 256mb
- ASUS P5VD2-VM

During the last couple of months I start playing a few games for curiosity, games I thought that wouldn't run on my PC (NFS Most Wanted, PES 10, Assassins Creed, Street Fighter IV)

Most of those games I can run at 1024*768 with medium detail, but no AA, etc... yet, for my concept of quality, that is not so bad... at the time I most enjoyed computer games (1999-2001 period) to play a game at 1024*768 full detail was almost the best you could get (I remember my old GeForce 2 GTS and the all I wanted that unafordable Ultra!!!)

I read some reviews recently and I have a nice opinion about the GeForce 9600GT the ATI4670, they affordable for my wallet plus they seem to run most of actual games fairly (1024*768 full detail I suppose)

My questions are:
. would my CPU be a botleneck for those cards?
. does it worth to buy one of those graphics card knowing that this system wont get better than this (I mean actually there is, core 2 duo, quad, i5, i7, phenom, dx11, etc)
. if I swap my processor to some low amd/intel model, would I feel a huge difference in games? (10, 30, 100 more fps?)
. should I use a 64bit version of windows? will that grant me better perfomances?

My aim is to play the latest games at 1024*768 high detail, would it be worthwile to buy one of those graphics card or wait, save money and buy everything new later (CPU, RAM, GPU)

Answers-

1) 9600GT should just be about right for your processor..not bottlenecking TOO bad.

2) I believe it would probably be worth it to you to buy the video card if you want to squeeze a little more life out of your system

3) That chipset won't allow much wiggle room to swap out your processor.. so you might be able to get a 3.2 P4 or a 3.0 Pentium D in there..but its not going to change your FPS by much...maybe 2-5fps at most.

4) 64 bit of windows will not effect your system due to your amount of memory - 2gb- 64 bit only matters after you have MORE than 4 gb.

I suggest saving your pennies because you can buy a much better computer for ~300 dollars or less using a E5300 (about 50 bucks).

Worse case scenario is that you can recyle your graphics card into your newer build and sell your old system for like ~100-150 bucks on craigslist.

 

[alienpredatover]

But certainly how can I measure those things... for example

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3663&p=8
Crysis Warhead (1600*1050)
Phenom II X4 955 - 81fps
Athlon X2 5400 - 52fps

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3720&p=5
Crysis Warhead (1600*1050)
Radeon 5870 - 45fps
Radeon 5670 - 15fps


So is true to say:

- Radeon 5870 + Athlon X2 5400 = Radeon 5670 + Phenom II X4 955

5870 is 30fps faster than 5670 but X4 is 30fps faster than X2 so... would they be equal in performance? (and I mean games only)

 

[Jd007]

So is true to say:

- Radeon 5870 + Athlon X2 5400 = Radeon 5670 + Phenom II X4 955

5870 is 30fps faster than 5670 but X4 is 30fps faster than X2 so... would they be equal in performance? (and I mean games only)

No.

- Radeon 5870 + Athlon X2 5400 > Radeon 5670 + Phenom II X4 955

For CPU benchmarks, they use a fast GPU and lower graphics settings to ensure that it's the CPU performance they are testing and that the frame rate is not limited by the speed of the GPU.

For GPU tests, they usually use a very fast CPU to ensure that the GPU tests scale only according to graphics card performance.

So a Radeon 5870 + Athlon X2 5400 would get you around 45fps (maybe lower, depending on the setting), whereas under the same in game settings, a 5670 + X4 955 will only get you around 15fps. In other words, the 5670 is hugely bottlenecking the quad core, which is capable of producing more frames if paired with a better card.

For a gaming machine it's all about balance (with graphics card being the more important factor than CPU). a mid-range CPU + mid-range GPU setup will almost always beat a high-end CPU + low-end GPU setup.

 

[Magusigne]

No. You can't rely on just those numbers there-

At any rate. If you intend on buying a whole new system there obviously more complicated things to take into considerations.

If you were wondering what you could do to upgrade your current system to get the best bang for the buck so to speak its to upgrade to a 9600GT.

If you have like 300-700 dollars to spend..we can talk upgrading your rig to current gaming level.

 

[alienpredatover]

I don't really have much of a budget now, the problem is I cant upgrade my CPU with that motherboard that doesnt even take advantage of dual core memory chanels.

I just cant figure out how bad the Pentium D 820 can actually be! After all its clocked 2,8Ghz! I remember reading reviews where it said in games a Pentium 4 (single core) 3,2Ghz was way faster than dual cores at that stage cause games didn't even took advantage of dual core systems.

I understand now that probably a 2Ghz Core 2 Duo will be much more faster than mine at 2,8Ghz... but how fast is that fast?

Will that mean getting 30fps more in a game with the same card?
Will that mean unraring a huge file in 15mins instead of 18mins... yes 15 mins its less than 18 mins but still 15 mins it a lot!!!
Will that mean encoding an mp3 10seconds faster than mine?

 

[mfenn]

I don't really have much of a budget now, the problem is I cant upgrade my CPU with that motherboard that doesnt even take advantage of dual core memory chanels.

I just cant figure out how bad the Pentium D 820 can actually be! After all its clocked 2,8Ghz! I remember reading reviews where it said in games a Pentium 4 (single core) 3,2Ghz was way faster than dual cores at that stage cause games didn't even took advantage of dual core systems.

I understand now that probably a 2Ghz Core 2 Duo will be much more faster than mine at 2,8Ghz... but how fast is that fast?

Will that mean getting 30fps more in a game with the same card?
Will that mean unraring a huge file in 15mins instead of 18mins... yes 15 mins its less than 18 mins but still 15 mins it a lot!!!
Will that mean encoding an mp3 10seconds faster than mine?

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=93&p2=88

Anand doesn't have your exact CPU in the Bench database, but I compared it against the Pentium Extreme Edition 955 which is basically a faster version of what you have. So keep in mind that the Phenom II is even faster relative to what you have at the moment.

You should take the gaming benchmarks in Bench with a grain of salt. As previous posters have said, don't expect to be able to upgrade just the CPU and see these types of performance improvements in games. Having a balanced system is necessary.

 

[Magusigne]

I don't really have much of a budget now, the problem is I cant upgrade my CPU with that motherboard that doesnt even take advantage of dual core memory chanels.

I just cant figure out how bad the Pentium D 820 can actually be! After all its clocked 2,8Ghz! I remember reading reviews where it said in games a Pentium 4 (single core) 3,2Ghz was way faster than dual cores at that stage cause games didn't even took advantage of dual core systems.

I understand now that probably a 2Ghz Core 2 Duo will be much more faster than mine at 2,8Ghz... but how fast is that fast?

Will that mean getting 30fps more in a game with the same card?
Will that mean unraring a huge file in 15mins instead of 18mins... yes 15 mins its less than 18 mins but still 15 mins it a lot!!!
Will that mean encoding an mp3 10seconds faster than mine?

You will see a better gain in gaming BY FAR by upgrading to a 9600GT as you mentioned.

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/cpu-charts-2007/Synthetic-3DMark06,341.html

is an older chart from 2007 - this is just kind of a run of the mill CPU test that will show you at least how much faster the cpu is at processing that particular challenge.

The 2GHZ Core 2 Duo you mention looks like it could be 1.6-2x as fast as your current CPU.

At any rate for the needs you mentioned just get the 9600 GT- If you get your hands on some more cash..even as little as 150-175 dollars you could probably get yourself some new RAM/MOBO/Budget C2D and be processing and decoding probably 2-3x faster.

 

[alienpredatover]

Pffff... 2-3x faster that 2Ghz C2D than this PD820 it could only mean this cpu is terrible!!!
What are those Ghz for :\

I live in Europe... computer material is much expensive here than what I see on the internet!
Sometimes I see some graphics card for just $110 but here they cost €190...

The January 2009 Anadtech Entre Level Guide $700 its much more expensive here than that and we are in 2010 so... its not that easy to buy things

Besides that RAM has doubled its price dunno why!

 

[mfenn]

Pffff... 2-3x faster that 2Ghz C2D than this PD820 it could only mean this cpu is terrible!!!
What are those Ghz for :\

I live in Europe... computer material is much expensive here than what I see on the internet!
Sometimes I see some graphics card for just $110 but here they cost €190...

The January 2009 Anadtech Entre Level Guide $700 its much more expensive here than that and we are in 2010 so... its not that easy to buy things

Besides that RAM has doubled its price dunno why!

The old Pentium 4's and Pentium D's were not known for their power efficiency.

If electricity is expensive where you are, you might actually be saving money by upgrading to a newer Core 2 or Phenom/Athlon II system.

 

[alienpredatover]

Not that much expensive here... and I remeber reading an article about that where it said with Pentium D you could pay €25 electricity more per year... yet, to fullfil a €250 budget for a new mobo and cpu I would need 10 years

If I upgrade to an Athlon X2 250 + ATI4670 would I get a much better performance than with this Pentium D 820 + 9600GT in games?

Yeah I know the 9600GT is better than the 4670 but I dont have money for the X2 250 and the 9600GT and I want to save as much as possible... after all, I just wanna play 1024*768...

 

[Magusigne]

Not that much expensive here... and I remeber reading an article about that where it said with Pentium D you could pay €25 electricity more per year... yet, to fullfil a €250 budget for a new mobo and cpu I would need 10 years

If I upgrade to an Athlon X2 250 + ATI4670 would I get a much better performance than with this Pentium D 820 + 9600GT in games?

Yeah I know the 9600GT is better than the 4670 but I dont have money for the X2 250 and the 9600GT and I want to save as much as possible... after all, I just wanna play 1024*768...

Then JUST upgrade to a 9600 GT and you'll see an improvement and save a bit of cash instead of upgrading your GPU/CPU

 

[mfenn]

Then JUST upgrade to a 9600 GT and you'll see an improvement and save a bit of cash instead of upgrading your GPU/CPU

Remember that the OP wants to game at 1024x768, the CPU is going to play a much larger role here. Upgrading the CPU/mobo will also give a nice boost to everyday computing (OP has mentioned this several times).

At any rate, per http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/...e-3/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1280x1024,1669.html, the 4670 is over five times faster on average than the 3450. I would say that its worth taking the 4670 (that is still much faster than the OP's current card) over the 9600GT since he can also sneak in a platform upgrade at the same time.

Check out http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=93&p2=96, the Athlon II X2 250 is at worst the same as the old 955 EE and at best is quite a bit faster! Keep in mind that the 955 EE is about 25% faster than the Pentium D 820.

OP, my recommendation, with the qualifier that I can't do pricing research in your area myself, is to do the X2 250 + 4670 + new mobo.

 

[alienpredatover]

Sure new systems are much better but I'll be honestly with you guys, besides gaming I don't see my pc that slow (I just unrar a little files, office applications, watch some movies, that is all) and it is fast... I had an Athlon 1Ghz and did the same things without much trouble and not that slower either!
The problem is when it come to games........

I dunno if this is allowed (sorry if is isn't) but I'll leave a link with the prices here
CPU
http://www.mbit.pt/catalogo/index.php?cat=2589&familia=COMPONENTES_PROCESSADORES

GPU
http://www.mbit.pt/catalogo/index.php?cat=44&familia=COMPONENTES_PLACAS+GR%C1FICAS

The prices are in Euros, at the moment €1 - $1,4104

I noticed that ATI 4670 is 128bit, DDR3... and some 9600GT are 128bit also and DDR2 instead of 256bit and DDR3...

I want to save as much as possible and dont want to play higher than 1024*768... this is my budget

€60 - ideal
€100 - affordable
€150 - hmm... only if it brings me a massive upgrade in game performance

Remember, if i change my mobo I have to buy DDR3 and mobo also

 

[mfenn]

Sure new systems are much better but I'll be honestly with you guys, besides gaming I don't see my pc that slow (I just unrar a little files, office applications, watch some movies, that is all) and it is fast... I had an Athlon 1Ghz and did the same things without much trouble and not that slower either!
The problem is when it come to games........

I dunno if this is allowed (sorry if is isn't) but I'll leave a link with the prices here
CPU
http://www.mbit.pt/catalogo/index.php?cat=2589&familia=COMPONENTES_PROCESSADORES

GPU
http://www.mbit.pt/catalogo/index.php?cat=44&familia=COMPONENTES_PLACAS+GR%C1FICAS

The prices are in Euros, at the moment €1 - $1,4104

I noticed that ATI 4670 is 128bit, DDR3... and some 9600GT are 128bit also and DDR2 instead of 256bit and DDR3...

I want to save as much as possible and dont want to play higher than 1024*768... this is my budget

€60 - ideal
€100 - affordable
€150 - hmm... only if it brings me a massive upgrade in game performance

Remember, if i change my mobo I have to buy DDR3 and mobo also

Don't worry, posting links to e-tailers for the purposes of price comparison is perfectly OK. I took a look around that site, and you are right the prices are killer, especially for motherboards.

At the end of the day, it's your call. If are happy with the performance of your PC, then you certainly don't need an upgrade!

I honestly believe that you would be blown away by the difference between an Athlon II and your Pentium D. I'm skeptical of how much of an improvement you will really see at 1024x768. My advice is you save up at bit more until you can afford the ~250 Euro to upgrade everything at once. If you do the GPU upgrade now, keep in mind that it won't be performing as well as it should.

 

[alienpredatover]

Prices are terrible here yes and that is by far the cheapest you can get!!!

At the end of the day, it's your call. If are happy with the performance of your PC, then you certainly don't need an upgrade!

Just happy with overall performance (surfing on the web, using word and office) dont have any troubles at all...

Unhappy with gaming... Assassins Creed I can play 1024*768 but not full detail and sometimes it gets slow
Street Fighter IV cant get better than 800*600 to play with 50fps
Force Unleashed... lol... too slow, unplayable at all

Unhappy with system noise, I dunno why, my systems always make a terrible noise, my older Athlon 1Ghz made a lot of noise also! At that stage I thought it was an AMD problem and changed to Intel, but it was worhtless!!!

 

[mfenn]

Prices are terrible here yes and that is by far the cheapest you can get!!!



Just happy with overall performance (surfing on the web, using word and office) dont have any troubles at all...

Unhappy with gaming... Assassins Creed I can play 1024*768 but not full detail and sometimes it gets slow
Street Fighter IV cant get better than 800*600 to play with 50fps
Force Unleashed... lol... too slow, unplayable at all

Unhappy with system noise, I dunno why, my systems always make a terrible noise, my older Athlon 1Ghz made a lot of noise also! At that stage I thought it was an AMD problem and changed to Intel, but it was worhtless!!!

You can do a little experiment to see if you're CPU limited or GPU limited. Download FRAPS so that you can measure the games' framerates. Then run at 640x480 (or whatever the lowest is), 800x600, 1024x768, and 1280x1024. Be sure to keep all other settings the same. Write down your average framerate at each resolution. If you see your framerates steadily dropping as you increase the resolutions, then you are GPU limited. If the framerates stay about the same, then you're CPU limited.

As far as the noise issue, you need to isolate what exactly is causing the noise. You can do a quick test by opening up your computer and stopping each fan with your finger. Try to stop it by pressing down on the hub, as sticking a finger into the blades of a fast-moving fan isn't a good idea! You can get a good idea of which component is the noisiest this way. If none of the fans seem to have a significant impact on overall noise, your HDD (it looks to be an older model) could be the cause.

 

[happy medium]

Stop!

Your motherboard supports Core 2 duo cpu's.

http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=P5VD2-VM SE&product=1

Buy a cheap e4xxx or e6xxx series 800 or 1066 fsb cpu for that setup. They are called Conroe core 2duo's. They are older but 2x the speed of that pent dual core. I don't think you will find them in stores.
They should run about 50$ used.

See if that helps with you framerate with games. It should.
If not, go get your self a 4670 and you will max any game @ 1024x768 mabe even 1280x1024.

Like this one at the top of this page for 61 of your money.

http://www.mbit.pt/catalogo/index.php?cat=243&ordp=1&p=4

You games will be 3x faster and winrar and other things will be twice as fast.

 

[alienpredatover]

Stop!

Your motherboard supports Core 2 duo cpu's.

http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=P5VD2-VM SE&product=1

Buy a cheap e4xxx or e6xxx series 800 or 1066 fsb cpu for that setup. They are called Conroe core 2duo's. They are older but 2x the speed of that pent dual core. I don't think you will find them in stores.
They should run about 50$ used.

See if that helps with you framerate with games. It should.
If not, go get your self a 4670 and you will max any game @ 1024x768 mabe even 1280x1024.

Like this one at the top of this page for 61 of your money.

http://www.mbit.pt/catalogo/index.php?cat=243&ordp=1&p=4

You games will be 3x faster and winrar and other things will be twice as fast.

Thought about that also... but I've read something about my motherboard and a memory problem not taking advantage of it even having a core 2 duo :\

By the way, here are some fraps results
Pro Evolution Soccer 10
1024*768 - 40fps
1280*720 - 30fps (the game doesnt allow more)

Street Fighter IV
800*600 - 40fps
1024*768 - 30fps
1280*1024 - 20fps

Star War The Force Unleashed
800*600 - 9 to 13fps
1024*768 - 7 to 9fps
1280*1024 - 6 to 7fps

Unplayable!!!

Couldnt measure Assassins Creed, fraps block with 188, lolol

 

[happy medium]

Thought about that also... but I've read something about my motherboard and a memory problem not taking advantage of it even having a core 2 duo :\

By the way, here are some fraps results
Pro Evolution Soccer 10
1024*768 - 40fps
1280*720 - 30fps (the game doesnt allow more)

Street Fighter IV
800*600 - 40fps
1024*768 - 30fps
1280*1024 - 20fps

Star War The Force Unleashed
800*600 - 9 to 13fps
1024*768 - 7 to 9fps
1280*1024 - 6 to 7fps

Unplayable!!!

Couldnt measure Assassins Creed, fraps block with 188, lolol

Since your minimums at 800x600 are sometimes under 30 fps, you need a cpu.
But to play that Star Wars game you need both a cpu and a gpu.

I suggest you do I said, and get a cpu first and a gpu if that doesn't work.

Its only about 120 of your money for both, and your system will be much ,much faster.

Your memory is fine and will work great with a better core 2 duo.
How is your power supply? 300 watts?

 

[alienpredatover]

Your memory is fine and will work great with a better core 2 duo.
How is your power supply? 300 watts?

To be honest I dunno... but I've read for the 9600GT I will need an extra power supply, a 6pin to connect to the graphics card...

Dont core 2 duos require DDR3?

 

[lxskllr]

Dont core 2 duos require DDR3?

No, they're DDR2

 

[mfenn]

Since your minimums at 800x600 are sometimes under 30 fps, you need a cpu.
But to play that Star Wars game you need both a cpu and a gpu.

I suggest you do I said, and get a cpu first and a gpu if that doesn't work.

Its only about 120 of your money for both, and your system will be much ,much faster.

Your memory is fine and will work great with a better core 2 duo.
How is your power supply? 300 watts?

Good catch on the Core 2 bit!

However, if you plot his numbers, you will see the telltale decreasing curve indicative of GPU limitation. I suggest that the OP reverse your suggestion. Get the GPU first and then, if he's not happy go for the CPU.

 

[alienpredatover]

Can't get a core 2 duo... they're made in 45nm, my motherboard is for 65nm!

Anyway, I'll start with the graphics card, if anyone can suggest a combination of (motherboard + cpu + gpu + ram) for under €150 with that link, step foward please.

Is there any game where I can really see the CPU bottleneck? Remember I'm running that all on a ATI3450 wich in some cases is slower than an oldie GeForce6600GT

 

[alyarb]

the first family of 65nm core2 duos ran on an 800 MHz bus (E6300-E6700) and they will work on your motherboard. and you can find them in portugal.