Is my Geforce 460 the culprit of these random freezes?

[Ilias]

Hello to everyone. First of all, here are my basic system specs:

AMD Phenomx3 8450
Geforce 460 GTX 1GB
MSI K9A2 CF
8GB RAM
OS HDD WD SATA 160GB
Corsair AX850 PSU
Windows 7 Home Premium

So the story goes like this: Before the Geforce card that you see above, i had an ATI 4850 512MB and an old Enermax 485W PSU and the whole system was running flawlessly for years and for long time periods with no problems whatsoever. I bought the Geforce card last September and after some use, the Enermax PSU obviously couldnt handle the load (had blue screens, non recognizable DVD drives e.t.c). So i bought the Corsair AX850 PSU, installed it and all the problems dissapeared, everything was running fine. Except for one certain problem:

There is a freeze screen that i get on random occasions. It happens either when im playing videos on Youtube or when im playing games. We are not talking about a blue screen here but about the whole screen freezing where it is and everything on the system becoming unresponsive. The only way to get out of it, is to push the reset button on my case and reboot the system. This kind of freeze happened ONCE when i had the Geforce card on the old Enermax PSU and it destroyed my Windows installation. When it happens now with the new Corsair PSU, i just push the reset button and the system reboots normally. This freeze was happening like once a month (during which my system had/has extensive use) but for the past week its been happening almost once per day. After taking a look at Event Viewer, this is what i got:

- <Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
- <System>
<Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power" Guid="{331C3B3A-2005-44C2-AC5E-77220C37D6B4}" />
<EventID>41</EventID>
<Version>2</Version>
<Level>1</Level>
<Task>63</Task>
<Opcode>0</Opcode>
<Keywords>0x8000000000000002</Keywords>
<TimeCreated SystemTime="2011-02-15T18:27:13.421875000Z" />
<EventRecordID>31875</EventRecordID>
<Correlation />
<Execution ProcessID="4" ThreadID="8" />
<Channel>System</Channel>
<Computer>Ilias-PC</Computer>
<Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />
</System>
- <EventData>
<Data Name="BugcheckCode">0</Data>
<Data Name="BugcheckParameter1">0x0</Data>
<Data Name="BugcheckParameter2">0x0</Data>
<Data Name="BugcheckParameter3">0x0</Data>
<Data Name="BugcheckParameter4">0x0</Data>
<Data Name="SleepInProgress">false</Data>
<Data Name="PowerButtonTimestamp">0</Data>
</EventData>
</Event>

From my experience, im guessing that either my Geforce 460 seems to be deffective (remember that i got this freeze once on my old power supply) or the motherboard is starting to fail. I do have a better and brand new motherboard on standby in order to replace the old one, but i dont want to get into that process until i have covered any other causes. I rule out that the culprit is the Corsair PSU since its brand new and it solved my previous blue screen and crasing problems that i had with my old one, while running the Geforce card. Once again, note that the freeze happens randomly and not continuously, only once per day or every two days or once per week - its near impossible to get a patern of when it happens. Temperatures and voltages seem to be on normal levels (i have 5 cooling fans installed on my case, so overheating is out of the question as well).

Btw i also have this hunch, even if its a dumb one: The Geforce card is installed on the second PCI Express slot of the motherboard and not in the first one, because the card would get in the way of the SATA connectors of the motherboard. I wonder if i place the card on the first PCI Express slot (and connect most of sata cables through a PCI sata adaptor) will fix the problem? Its just a guess.

Any opinions are most welcome. Thank you in advance.

 

[Texashiker]

Scan for malware and viruses?

 

[Ilias]

Scan for malware and viruses?

You really think that a virus could be the culprit? Ill do a scan and update you if it found something (but i sincerely doubt it).

 

[Texashiker]

You really think that a virus could be the culprit?

I think that malware is a common computer problem, and poorly written malware can cause problems with systems locking up and freezing.

Scanning for malware is also easy, just download malware bytes from download.com and do a full system scan. When the scan is over, you will have eliminated the malware question.

Start with the easiest fixes first, and work your way from there.

 

[Ilias]

I think that malware is a common computer problem, and poorly written malware can cause problems with systems locking up and freezing.

Scanning for malware is also easy, just download malware bytes from download.com and do a full system scan. When the scan is over, you will have eliminated the malware question.

Start with the easiest fixes first, and work your way from there.

Finished the scan with the program you suggested: No malware detected anywhere. So i guess we are going back to the hardware issues.

 

[Termie]

Sounds like it could be a driver crash. Have you left the computer on after the freeze to see if it recovers? Maybe a few minutes or so?

 

[SolMiester]

In my experience, system freeze is usually a memory issue!

 

[Ilias]

Sounds like it could be a driver crash. Have you left the computer on after the freeze to see if it recovers? Maybe a few minutes or so?

No i havent cause im afraid that it might harm the system. Even the mouse stops responding when it happens and the sound goes on a continuous loop (if there is any atm).

 

[tweakboy]

As the gurus said.

Run security on it you might have virus or malware etc.

 

[notty22]

Have you always had 8gb of ram ?
Instability in memory tends to 'trip' the gpu driver. It controls windows gui.
I would d/l the bootdisk iso from memtest.org and see if your memory throws out any errors. Its free and easy.
http://www.memtest.org/#downiso

 

[Termie]

No i havent cause im afraid that it might harm the system. Even the mouse stops responding when it happens and the sound goes on a continuous loop (if there is any atm).

The sound loop suggests to me that the computer has not had a hard crash, because it is still processing. I had that happen on my Ati card and found that if I let the computer sit for about a minute, the graphics driver would recover and the computer would return to the desktop. I don't think you'll harm the computer if you try this.

Have you always had 8gb of ram ?
Instability in memory tends to 'trip' the gpu driver. It controls windows gui.
I would d/l the bootdisk iso from memtest.org and see if your memory throws out any errors. Its free and easy.
http://www.memtest.org/#downiso

Agreed - bad memory settings have caused graphics card instability on both my systems. So even if you find that the graphics card driver recovers (as suggested above), you still need to get to the bottom of the issue, and I'm in agreement with others that it could be your system RAM. Drop down to one stick or drop the speed/loosen the timings and see if that helps.

 

[Ilias]

Have you always had 8gb of ram ?
Instability in memory tends to 'trip' the gpu driver. It controls windows gui.
I would d/l the bootdisk iso from memtest.org and see if your memory throws out any errors. Its free and easy.
http://www.memtest.org/#downiso

Yes mate i always had 8GB - even when i had the ATI4850. But i will try memtest as you say.

 

[Termie]

Yes mate i always had 8GB - even when i had the ATI4850. But i will try memtest as you say.

Bad memory timings caused instability with my GTS460 after replacing an HD4670, despite never having problems with that card.

 

[Arkadrel]

To me this sounds like a corrupt dll or something with windows.
*IF* you have a ghost image of windows, ghost back to a clean install of windows (that you know has no issues at all). Or you could reinstall windows (if u have a full licence)...

if he has had the memory forever and hasnt had issues, doesnt sound like its to blame. I think he probably had to little a psu after the 460 upg,... caused windows to crash alot, before he replaced the PSU with a bigger one.

however by then the damage was already done, something got messed up by those crashes, software wise.

complete reinstall of windows, and see if the issue is still there.

 

[Ilias]

Bad memory timings caused instability with my GTS460 after replacing an HD4670, despite never having problems with that card.

But i never messed up with the memory timings - ever. I never overclocked my system. All the memory settings are on AUTO in the bios settings. I can re-check ofc...

UPDATE: Just checked and all memory settings are on AUTO, and the memory timings are on 2T.

if he has had the memory forever and hasnt had issues, doesnt sound like its to blame. I think he probably had to little a psu after the 460 upg,... caused windows to crash alot, before he replaced the PSU with a bigger one.

however by then the damage was already done, something got messed up by those crashes, software wise.

complete reinstall of windows, and see if the issue is still there.

You could have a point about this one... after replacing the PSU, i never did a clean Windows install (i have a full license copy too so there is no problem btw). But i will gonna check with memtest first and then i will see what to do.

 

[Rifter]

But i never messed up with the memory timings - ever. I never overclocked my system. All the memory settings are on AUTO in the bios settings. I can re-check ofc...

Make sure the voltage is correct. Auto will put it to 1.8V which is the standard voltage for DDR2, but alot of memory is spec'd by the manufactorer to run over volted at 2V or 2.2V.

 

[Termie]

Make sure the voltage is correct. Auto will put it to 1.8V which is the standard voltage for DDR2, but alot of memory is spec'd by the manufactorer to run over volted at 2V or 2.2V.

This. Auto isn't good enough. If you can determine the specs of your memory, manually set them at that. For instance, maybe the memory is 5-5-5-15-2T at 2.1v. It won't always default to that, unfortunately.

I only stress this because my own GTX460 failed to boot in my system until I changed the voltage on my memory, despite it having run stably for 6 months equipped with an HD4670.

Obviously, it could be something more serious, like a corrupted Windows installation (which is a very good theory actually, from Arkadrel), but if it's your memory, the fix is simpler.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

Turn of speed step in the BIOS

Btw did you clean out the old ATI drivers? remember you have to uninstall them with a driver cleaner

 

[Ilias]

This. Auto isn't good enough. If you can determine the specs of your memory, manually set them at that. For instance, maybe the memory is 5-5-5-15-2T at 2.1v. It won't always default to that, unfortunately.

I only stress this because my own GTX460 failed to boot in my system until I changed the voltage on my memory, despite it having run stably for 6 months equipped with an HD4670.

Obviously, it could be something more serious, like a corrupted Windows installation (which is a very good theory actually, from Arkadrel), but if it's your memory, the fix is simpler.

Hello my friend(s) and thank you for all the replies, you are all simply fantastic

I took your advice about the memory voltages and after looking in CPUID the brand and part number of my RAM, i went to the manufacturers websites. I have two pairs of 2GB from two different brands: One is Mushkin and the other one is Teamelite. Look what i found out in the Mushkin website: http://www.mushkin.com/Memory/Blackline/991580.aspx

As you can see, those ram modules are supposed to work on 2.0 - 2.1 voltages and all this time, the AUTO setting in my BIOS had the ram running on 1.8V. For good precaution, i went to the Teamelite website as well and thankfully i found out that their modules can work fine under a 2.0 voltage http://www.memoryc.com/computermemory/ddr2ram/4gbteamelite6400cl5kit.html

I went to the BIOS and set the RAM voltage at 2.0. System rebooted fine without any problems and logged onto Windows 7. Its been working like this for about half an hour now but im gonna keep my system busy with movie playbacks and gaming throughout the afternoon. If there is anything else that you think i should change in my memory settings, please let me know I also bought a new USB stick and installed Memtest+ as you suggested as well so im gonna let it work tonight after i go to bed. So all i can do for now, is wait and see.

I find it very surprising however that we have to change our RAM voltages in order for our videocards to work properly. Whats the connection between the two? Its the first time i hear about this.

 

[Termie]

Hello my friend(s) and thank you for all the replies, you are all simply fantastic

I took your advice about the memory voltages and after looking in CPUID the brand and part number of my RAM, i went to the manufacturers websites. I have two pairs of 2GB from two different brands: One is Mushkin and the other one is Teamelite. Look what i found out in the Mushkin website: http://www.mushkin.com/Memory/Blackline/991580.aspx

As you can see, those ram modules are supposed to work on 2.0 - 2.1 voltages and all this time, the AUTO setting in my BIOS had the ram running on 1.8V. For good precaution, i went to the Teamelite website as well and thankfully i found out that their modules can work fine under a 2.0 voltage http://www.memoryc.com/computermemory/ddr2ram/4gbteamelite6400cl5kit.html

I went to the BIOS and set the RAM voltage at 2.0. System rebooted fine without any problems and logged onto Windows 7. Its been working like this for about half an hour now but im gonna keep my system busy with movie playbacks and gaming throughout the afternoon. If there is anything else that you think i should change in my memory settings, please let me know I also bought a new USB stick and installed Memtest+ as you suggested as well so im gonna let it work tonight after i go to bed. So all i can do for now, is wait and see.

I find it very surprising however that we have to change our RAM voltages in order for our videocards to work properly. Whats the connection between the two? Its the first time i hear about this.

Good luck. I hope the fix works. If not, you may need to reinstall Windows.

As to why there's a connection between a video card and memory, my only guess is that somehow the GTX460, with its higher power demands and two PCIe plugs, is destabilizing the voltages in a way that your older video card did not. This in turn might be exposing unstable settings, such as undervolted memory. This is just an educated guess, as I do not pretend to know much about the functioning of power supplies.

That being said, I think we can agree that running memory designed for 2.1v at 1.8v is something that could lead to instability. I had the exact same settings as you - DDR2 4-4-4-12 running at 1.8v, but designed to run at 2.1v. This was stable with a low-power video card, but not with the GTX460. Once I changed the voltage, my system became 100% stable and has been for months.

 

[Idontcare]

As to why there's a connection between a video card and memory, my only guess is that somehow the GTX460, with its higher power demands and two PCIe plugs, is destabilizing the voltages in a way that your older video card did not. This in turn might be exposing unstable settings, such as undervolted memory. This is just an educated guess, as I do not pretend to know much about the functioning of power supplies.

Could definitely be a ripple effect or voltage sag caused by the larger load placed on the PSU, could also be that the 460 is making the case temps just a bit higher and the undervolted ram was simply not stable operating at the somewhat higher temps.

This is the difference between knowing the symptom ("Doc, I cough a lot, wut's up?") and knowing the disease ("you've got pneumonia, take two of these and call me in the morning"). Cause and effect.

 

[Ilias]

Im updating again to say that... the increase in memory voltages didnt work, much to my dissapointment. The freeze happened again today after 4 days of flawless system behavior and performance. I will see if im gonna do a clean Win7 install this weekend... this is so weird..!! The most random PC problem i have ever encountered.

 

[Ilias]

/bump

 

[Termie]

Sorry to hear this. I do think a Windows reinstall is worth a try. I'm going back to my theory that the drivers are somehow corrupted. If that doesn't work then you may have a bad card, but I still doubt that because you're not having a hard crash.

 

[Ilias]

Sorry to hear this. I do think a Windows reinstall is worth a try. I'm going back to my theory that the drivers are somehow corrupted. If that doesn't work then you may have a bad card, but I still doubt that because you're not having a hard crash.

Ok Termie, many thanks once again.