Is KBB used car value estimation BS?

[mooncancook]

I am looking at some '12 and '13 Toyota Prius C on private party sales in the Bay Area. I checked kbb and it puts the values at $6.9k to $8.9k and avg $8k for very good condition '13 models. In reality anything close to asking price of $8k would have at least 100k miles, anything close to $6k would have a salvage title. Cars with low mileage seems to go for around $10k. Is KBB's private sale value bs, or the sellers in my area are asking too much? How much should I expect to pay for one with around 50k miles?

 

[mindless1]

Prices are probably a bit higher due to being in the Bay Area.

Normally, KBB estimated private seller prices are higher than average private party sold prices for anything that's not rare. Edmunds is usually closer to realistic pricing for actual sales opposed to what you are probably seeing which is vehicles that aren't selling because they are priced too high.

Something like that as salvage would usually sell for under $3k at an auction, so you might be seeing dealers curbstoning them to see if anyone will bite.

There might be some price overhead due to a Prius being something special (arguably) when it first came out, but I wouldn't pay any extra for that sentimentality on the used market, not when it would take years of fuel savings to break even if you ever did.

 

[mooncancook]

Sigh, buying used car is no easier than buying new cars. I am considering a '13 Prius C with 50k mi for $9.5k, but both kbb and Edmund value it lower. Locally I am seeing these private sales all over the place:
'14 Yaris w/ 50k mi for $9k;
'13 Prius C w/ 110k mi for $7k;
'12 Prius C w/ 88k mi for $10.5k;
'14 Prius C w/ 95k mi for $9.9k
'13 Prius C w/ 98k mi for $9k
'16 Honda Fit w/ 63k mi for $12.2k
'13 Honda Fit w/ 43k mi for $10.8k (this one is manual so no go)
'15 Honda Fit w/ 46k mi for $11.9k
'13 Honda Fit w/ 126k mi for $7.5k

Comparing to these listing it doesn't seem too bad. Maybe I just have to accept that I have to pay more than kbb in my area?

 

[Scarpozzi]

Most of the big dealerships with used lots tack doc fees on top of whatever the sales prices are...so you end up with the negotiated price + fees for the sale. It's something to watch for.

I know you're looking at private party sales, but it may be worth going through the dealer sites to see how their asking price stacks up...then go with in a solid offer (taking the doc fees into account because that's guaranteed money for them)

 

[mindless1]

Sigh, buying used car is no easier than buying new cars. I am considering a '13 Prius C with 50k mi for $9.5k, but both kbb and Edmund value it lower. Locally I am seeing these private sales all over the place:

You are seeing those as sale prices or sold prices?

If just sale prices, then they may just be other examples of things not selling fast because the price is too high for what they are. Often if a vehicle is in good condition for a good price, you have very few days to act on it.

You might expand the search outside the Bay Area to see if that helps, but on the used market I'd look for larger, nicer vehicles that likely don't cost much more once they are this age. If you are going to put on a lot of miles so you need utmost fuel efficiency, I wouldn't consider anything near 100K mi or more.

 

[mooncancook]

You are seeing those as sale prices or sold prices?

If just sale prices, then they may just be other examples of things not selling fast because the price is too high for what they are. Often if a vehicle is in good condition for a good price, you have very few days to act on it.

You might expand the search outside the Bay Area to see if that helps, but on the used market I'd look for larger, nicer vehicles that likely don't cost much more once they are this age. If you are going to put on a lot of miles so you need utmost fuel efficiency, I wouldn't consider anything near 100K mi or more.

From my searches in the last several weeks, I definitely noticed that the cars with good condition, relatively low mileage, and reasonable price got taken rather quickly. I am also looking at some '14 and '15 Corolla and Civic, the ones with lower mileage usually exceed budget. Car is for MIL who is retired, budget is within 11k, preferably under 10k. And yes I wouldn't consider anything near 100k mi. Around 50k would be best. Tiny cars would be best as it is easier for her to maneuver around tight parking lot. And searches from nearby areas don't return much better results.

 

[mindless1]

On the surface it seems like a tiny car might maneuver better but the difference isn't all that much compared to the next larger class. I mean we're talking only a couple inches wider and length, not so much a factor except parallel parking.

How old is she? I feel like she should have a large amount of input on this decision. If she isn't mentally capable of input, she probably shouldn't be driving. Then again it's probably time for me to STFU because I don't know XYZ variables.

 

[mooncancook]

On the surface it seems like a tiny car might maneuver better but the difference isn't all that much compared to the next larger class. I mean we're talking only a couple inches wider and length, not so much a factor except parallel parking.

How old is she? I feel like she should have a large amount of input on this decision. If she isn't mentally capable of input, she probably shouldn't be driving. Then again it's probably time for me to STFU because I don't know XYZ variables.

She's just over 70. She wanted a taller vehicle like a CRV coz she thinks she can see better by sitting higher. We turned it down because a compact SUV is over budget unless we get an old one with lots mileage, and most important is that she can't handle a vehicle of that size.

She's not a good driver and we prefer her not to drive at all. But we have to let her coz public trans is terrible in America. She'll scratch her car sooner or later on the wooden support column next to her parking spot, and with a tiny car it'll get scratched at a much slower rate than with a slightly larger car. With a SUV I'm afraid she'll even knock down the wooden column.

 

[mindless1]

Being an SUV owner, I consider knocking down a column that is in the way to be a solution rather than a problem.

I think we have parted ways in philosophy.. The last thing I would ever do is put someone with questionable driving skills in a tiny car that can get squashed like a bug on public roads mostly filled with SUVs and trucks these days.

I think she should have the same thing that any other senior citizen normally chooses which is a full sized sedan like a Toyota Avalon. You'll find that owners are conservative, take better care of their vehicles, and tend to put fewer miles on them.

I have nothing further to add because I just don't agree at all with the goal of this topic. Unsubscribed.

 

[killster1]

make a search on craigslist save the search and check it every day. I purchased a few cars from Sacramento (which is 4 freaking hours drive from me) but it still was either SAC or LA for good deals. the guy i bought it off was a Russian school teacher sold me a new accord with 8,000 miles for a great price on his lunch break
and yes kbb is pretty accurate on prices, SF is just a terrible place to buy a car.

 

[mooncancook]

Being an SUV owner, I consider knocking down a column that is in the way to be a solution rather than a problem.

I think we have parted ways in philosophy.. The last thing I would ever do is put someone with questionable driving skills in a tiny car that can get squashed like a bug on public roads mostly filled with SUVs and trucks these days.

I think she should have the same thing that any other senior citizen normally chooses which is a full sized sedan like a Toyota Avalon. You'll find that owners are conservative, take better care of their vehicles, and tend to put fewer miles on them.

I have nothing further to add because I just don't agree at all with the goal of this topic. Unsubscribed.

I understand your position, it'll work if she lives in suburbs. Unfortunately the parking spots within condo apartment complex in the Bay Area are really tight, it'll be really difficult for her to park and back up a car like the Avalon without scratching on objects and walls, and worse on someone else's car. As for safety, she only drive a few set and familiar local routes, and never get on highway, so a small car with good crash rating is safe enough. She asks us or friends if she needs to go somewhere unfamiliar or require getting on highway

 

[mooncancook]

make a search on craigslist save the search and check it every day. I purchased a few cars from Sacramento (which is 4 freaking hours drive from me) but it still was either SAC or LA for good deals. the guy i bought it off was a Russian school teacher sold me a new accord with 8,000 miles for a great price on his lunch break
and yes kbb is pretty accurate on prices, SF is just a terrible place to buy a car.

Yeah, finding the right car requires patience, and probably going distance, but my MIL has been complaining how difficult it is to live without a car. I wanted to find her a car soon, but, it's not that easy unless you dont care about budget

 

[Meghan54]

Buy what a large number of geriatrics buy....a Kia Soul. Sits a little higher, actually an advantage for an older person since getting in and out isn't an exercise in gymnastics for them. Lower sitting sedans tend to be difficult to get out of for older persons. And sitting higher may give her confidence with sight lines while driving. And the large windows help outward vision, too. There are a host of reasons why the Soul's largest selling demographic is elderly people.

Then, Souls a few years old should be well within her price range.

 

[BoomerD]

Try using autotrader.com to search for cars. KBB prices/values are somewhat accurate, but generally depend on the price cars in your area have sold for. (which, when you get right down to it..is what the car is worth)

 

[mooncancook]

Buy what a large number of geriatrics buy....a Kia Soul. Sits a little higher, actually an advantage for an older person since getting in and out isn't an exercise in gymnastics for them. Lower sitting sedans tend to be difficult to get out of for older persons. And sitting higher may give her confidence with sight lines while driving. And the large windows help outward vision, too. There are a host of reasons why the Soul's largest selling demographic is elderly people.

Then, Souls a few years old should be well within her price range.

I like the Soul, but I'll have a hard time convincing her to drive a Korean car. She still thinks that Korean cars are cheap and unreliable, and she's stubborn. If there's any minor issue with the car, she would be like "I told you, shouldn't buy Korean cars."

 

[killster1]

Buy what a large number of geriatrics buy....a Kia Soul. Sits a little higher, actually an advantage for an older person since getting in and out isn't an exercise in gymnastics for them. Lower sitting sedans tend to be difficult to get out of for older persons. And sitting higher may give her confidence with sight lines while driving. And the large windows help outward vision, too. There are a host of reasons why the Soul's largest selling demographic is elderly people.

Then, Souls a few years old should be well within her price range.

kia is the last brand id buy, Hyundai is the second last id buy

also on craigslist it seems like people ask for more on like new cars since they expect people to talk them down in price so its not the real price.

 

[mooncancook]

kia is the last brand id buy, Hyundai is the second last id buy

also on craigslist it seems like people ask for more on like new cars since they expect people to talk them down in price so its not the real price.

I guess there's some supply and demand in there too. the cars with unusually low mileage are in much higher demand than those normal or high mileage cars.

 

[JEDIYoda]

kia is the last brand id buy, Hyundai is the second last id buy

also on craigslist it seems like people ask for more on like new cars since they expect people to talk them down in price so its not the real price.

I hate to say thisa but KIA`s have improved over the years! KIA started out being crap!
Nowadays a KIA is as reliable as most other cars!!

 

[killster1]

I hate to say thisa but KIA`s have improved over the years! KIA started out being crap!
Nowadays a KIA is as reliable as most other cars!!

thats not what my friends say who had to have their motors recalled for a overhaul kia optima yikes.. just knock offs of reliable cars they cant even make up their own names.
"Kia said it is recalling 378,000 2012-2016 Kia Soul vehicles over engine damage and fire risks, "
woho fire risks and engine damage so cool, oh wait my time is very valuable and even having to go get a transmission update on my 2016 was SUPER annoying and caused me to get a registration ticket for 500$ ((they wouldnt give me my sticker with out the update and i chose to not waste my time on it well lesson learned))

 

[JEDIYoda]

thats not what my friends say who had to have their motors recalled for a overhaul kia optima yikes.. just knock offs of reliable cars they cant even make up their own names.
"Kia said it is recalling 378,000 2012-2016 Kia Soul vehicles over engine damage and fire risks, "
woho fire risks and engine damage so cool, oh wait my time is very valuable and even having to go get a transmission update on my 2016 was SUPER annoying and caused me to get a registration ticket for 500$ ((they wouldnt give me my sticker with out the update and i chose to not waste my time on it well lesson learned))

We both can agree to disagree!
Kia Soul quality & reliability ratings. It is a well-known fact that Kia manufactures one of the most reliable cars these days. The US’ J.D. Power Associates confirmed that recently by naming the Soul and Sportage crossovers the most reliable vehicles in their segments! Read more about the Soul quality award here.

My friends love their Kia`s!! What exactly do all those examp[les prove? Nothing! Other car manufacturers also have recalls!
Concerning your "transmission" update - Reprogramming the transmission control module with the latest Kia transmission software may fix abnormalities in the automatic transmission and erroneous transmission-related Check Engine Light illumination. Software updates are commonly most effective on newer vehicles.
So we agree to disagree......also it is very odd that you couldn`t register your car without the transmission update. I gues there is a first timke for everything!

 

[killster1]

We both can agree to disagree!
Kia Soul quality & reliability ratings. It is a well-known fact that Kia manufactures one of the most reliable cars these days. The US’ J.D. Power Associates confirmed that recently by naming the Soul and Sportage crossovers the most reliable vehicles in their segments! Read more about the Soul quality award here.

My friends love their Kia`s!! What exactly do all those examp[les prove? Nothing! Other car manufacturers also have recalls!
Concerning your "transmission" update - Reprogramming the transmission control module with the latest Kia transmission software may fix abnormalities in the automatic transmission and erroneous transmission-related Check Engine Light illumination. Software updates are commonly most effective on newer vehicles.
So we agree to disagree......also it is very odd that you couldn`t register your car without the transmission update. I gues there is a first timke for everything!

hilarious, you dont think JD power associates who give out 1000 awards to every single car company for so much bs is just a paid off garbage title? Yes we can disagree we dont have to agree, but the fact is if KIA was such a great car everyone would be driving them and not just poor people who cant afford a toyota or honda hahahah. my car changed nothing after transmission update, i live in California so they have different regulations then most so stupid. Do you own a kia? yes they all have recalls but the kia's my friends purchased had to be in the shop for weeks leaving them with out a car and MAD AS HELL.

btw my 2016 is a honda which had more power / gas mileage then similar toyota at the time which is why i choose it. (other then the 325,000 mile honda i owned before that my ex would get serviced oil change every 30-40,000 miles haaaaaaaa) It was sold and still runs to this day

 

[darkswordsman17]

I think the used car market has just been kinda screwed up. Wouldn't surprise me that there's things screwing up whatever "algorithm" that places are using for their pricing estimates as well.

I had to laugh as I saw a commercial for Carvana's buying your old car, and decided to see what they'd offer for my truck. They offered me $200. I'm pretty sure I could scrap it or part it and make that much and likely with less hassle. Now I'm not claiming its worth a lot, but KBB I think was saying like $2500-3500 was typical. I think that was quite a bit too high but seems like people are paying some of these prices.

But its weird. Like every so often I'll see if anyone is selling one of the original Honda Insights, and sometimes there will be a nice one for a very reasonable price that doesn't sell for like a month, and then ones that are asking like double for a worse condition (higher mileage, issues like paint or some damage or something) one that sell pretty much immediately.

 

[Pacfanweb]

KBB is useless. Dealers don't use it unless they're trying to sell you a car.

They do not use it to value your trade. Wholesale prices do that.

 

[Meghan54]

I think the used car market has just been kinda screwed up. Wouldn't surprise me that there's things screwing up whatever "algorithm" that places are using for their pricing estimates as well.

I had to laugh as I saw a commercial for Carvana's buying your old car, and decided to see what they'd offer for my truck. They offered me $200. I'm pretty sure I could scrap it or part it and make that much and likely with less hassle. Now I'm not claiming its worth a lot, but KBB I think was saying like $2500-3500 was typical. I think that was quite a bit too high but seems like people are paying some of these prices.

But its weird. Like every so often I'll see if anyone is selling one of the original Honda Insights, and sometimes there will be a nice one for a very reasonable price that doesn't sell for like a month, and then ones that are asking like double for a worse condition (higher mileage, issues like paint or some damage or something) one that sell pretty much immediately.

Well, consider the millions of used cars that were removed from the market during the Cash for Clunkers program. Millions of older vehicles which would now be typically in the lower price range now removed from the market. End result is higher than usual prices for the remaining vehicles. It's been estimated it'll take until 2023 or thereabouts for the market to get back to "normal."

 

[Meghan54]

KBB is useless. Dealers don't use it unless they're trying to sell you a car.

They do not use it to value your trade. Wholesale prices do that.

You're right....dealers use the Black Book, a dealer only publication, updated weekly via latest auction sale prices.

If you can ever get someone to take you to a "real" dealer auction, like Mannheim auctions, you'd be very surprised how cheaply vehicles get sold for.....opened my eyes.