Is it worth upgrading my PC, or should I get into consoles?

[Necc]

Thanks. I have no experience with OC. I just went into BIOS, and there was no option to change "FSB" to "400". The "FSB Speed" was listed as "1333mhz". There was an option for AI Overclock, which gave gave 5-30% OC options, but it said something about adjusting all values automaticaly. Not sure how to adjust FSB to 400 only.

Iguess your MB is G31 chipset, you have to ask the guys at the cpu section, i'm sure they can help you overclock your CPU, I never owned a G31 MB so ican't help you with that

either way try without overclocking for now and see where your bottlenecks are

 

[TheNiceGuy]

Thanks all. I have a road I can take with the PC and game now. I'll order more matching RAM (4gb system total). And I'll try to OC the CPU.
I researched for several hours, but coupled get much info on my MB/CPU combo other than a few failed stories claiming the BIOS is poorly labeled and confusing.
I tried two I hope safe BIOS combos, but the game would crash to desktop after a couple of minutes (not the PC). One combo was to use the "AI Overclocking" feature (at 20%), which did boost CPU to 3.61ghz, but it says something to the effect of 'boosting all relevant values automaticaly'. So I don't know what or if its boosting. The other combo was to set the "CPU Frequency" manualy from 333 to 400. Same game crashing results.
I could go into all the "AUTO" sections and try to change ALL the values manualy, but not sure what they are supposed to be at.
Any ideas? Here's 2 screen shots (literaly).
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/excipio/IMG_1947.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/excipio/IMG_1946.jpg

Thanks

 

[Arsinek]

I like the gaming experience on PCs but Im tired of spending so much money on PC hardware for gaming. I think Im done with PC gaming. If I want to game in the future it will be with a console.

 

[MustangSVT]

I like the gaming experience on PCs but Im tired of spending so much money on PC hardware for gaming. I think Im done with PC gaming. If I want to game in the future it will be with a console.

While I don't mind your decision, I find it odd that Computer gaming has costed you so much. I'm still on my c2q and until last year 8800gs(now hd6850). If you buy the right parts at right time, it should last you looong time.

And you'll need at least 1 computer anyway..

 

[rageofthepeon]

I like the gaming experience on PCs but Im tired of spending so much money on PC hardware for gaming. I think Im done with PC gaming. If I want to game in the future it will be with a console.

PC gaming is only expensive it you want to run the latest and greatest at the highest possible settings. All you really need to do is match the hardware of a console with a little bit extra to make up for the optimization that consoles get.

My 9800GT is still capable of playing new releases at 1080p with better graphics.

 

[Mandres]

Not to be a wet blanket, but I ended up upgrading my Core2Duo e8400 based system because I could not get acceptable performance in BF3 even after adding a 5850 card (slightly faster than your 6850). Hopefully your experience will be different, and the game has been out long enough now that some very good tweak guides should be available.

 

[TheNiceGuy]

That's what I came here for, the truth that is.
Still wondering if anyone can help me with the BIOS thing. I guess its not that big a deal eitherway.

 

[I4AT]

For overclocking the clock speed works like this.
CPU Frequency (also referred to as frontside bus FSB sometimes)
Multiplier (referred to here as CPU Ratio)

The frequency times the multiplier gives you your final clock speed. Stock clocks for your E8400 are 333x9 = ~3ghz.

To overclock you're simply raising the frequency from 333 to X. The speeds you can reach with stability depend on the CPU, the motherboard, cooling, power supply, etc.

To start with, what is the frequency of your DDR2 RAM? 800mhz?

As you raise the FSB the RAM frequency will be increased as well, so it's generally necessary to set a lower RAM divider in order to keep stability.

To start with I would shoot for ~378-380mhz frequency x 9 CPU ratio = ~3.4ghz.

If your RAM is DDR2 800 you need to manually set the DRAM frequency to make up for the increase in speed (to keep the ram as close to 800mhz as possible). I believe the frequency options will be in steps of 800, 667, and 533. The 800 setting is basically a 1:1 ratio with the FSB. You're probably already running at 667 by default assuming you have DDR2 800, because your CPU uses a 1333mhz FSB instead of the 800mhz a lot of 775 chips run at (333 x 4 = ~1333 rather than 200 x 4 = 800). So I would drop the DRAM frequency to 533 and see where that gets you on the next reboot.

 

[TheNiceGuy]

Thanks very much. Just checked, and the lowest Dram option is 667 (I'm running 800 ram sticks). CPU allows any typed number.
Btw, if the combo oc is no good, does the game crash to desktop, or does the pc crash?
Thanks

 

[I4AT]

Your RAM will likely hit its limit before your CPU does then. That or the motherboard since yours appears to be a little more budget oriented than performance. Chips like the E8400 are tricky to overclock because they default at 333mhz FSB, this puts more stress on the northbridge and other components of the motherboard than a 200mhz chip would. It generally takes a high quality board to get 400mhz+ FSB clocks (socket 775 anyways), but that doesn't necessarily mean yours can't, you'll just have to play around with it and see.

You can end up with an overclock that's aggressive enough to crash an application but stable enough to keep the OS running. You can also overclock too far to the point that the computer won't even boot into the OS or even refuse to POST until you clear the CMOS (resetting to defaults). It depends.

There are a few useful programs for checking system stability though.
This thread is a good resource.

I don't recommend any GPU stressing programs though, especially if your card is out of warranty. AMD/Nvidia hate these programs cause they push cards harder than any game would, sometimes to levels the manufacturers never anticipated so they've actually been known to kill a few cards even at stock speeds. Personally I never overclock my GPU, the small gains usually aren't worth the added heat/stress in my opinion. I also never raise any voltages past stock when overclocking anything, CPU, RAM, or otherwise. I only take the "free" performance boost, but it's all personal preference.

 

[TheNiceGuy]

Ok, seems I'm stuck at stock then, thanks.

 

[BlavaFodia]

Definitely upgrade your PC rather than console. It is much more fun in PC.

 

[I4AT]

Were you having stability issues or are you just not comfortable attempting an overclock? If you start small there's really not a lot of risk involved, at worst you'll probably get a reboot or fail a pass of Prime, but nothing will go up in flames.

Start with something like 350mhz, boot into Windows, restart and bump it up to 360mhz, repeat in 10mhz increments to around 380mhz. If you're able to boot into Windows at 380mhz without any issues then run some of the programs I linked earlier one at a time for at least a few hours each. If you get any errors from the stress tests reboot and back it down 5-10mhz until everything is error free.

 

[TheNiceGuy]

As I mentioned I tried a few times, and BC2 crashed within a couple of minutes. IIUC, you mean that RAM must be set lower than my MB allows (667mhz minimum), while I OC the CPU. Otherwise the RAM automaticaly rasies above the default speed, and likely crashes.
I cant figure out how to seperate these values in the MB, and it seems like it is not a possible option.
IIUC, the scrrenshot above shows the only 3 BIOS options open to me: AI; CPU; DRAM.
I tried AI at "20%" with crashes. The only lower setting is 10%. I can try this next.
I tried the CPU at "380" and "400" and "AUTO". I can type any value in this box.
I tried the DRAM at "667" and "AUTO". There are (I forget), maybe 4 choices, 667 is the lowest.

I received the game BF3 yesterday. Before I installed, I did some major PC updates. I hadn't known about the 2 Vista service packs. Got all that done, and system seemed OK.
I also had to install Radeon drivers before it would let me play. I'm unsure about uninstall/'cleaning' process, so I just installed as normal following prompts. Now, I'm getting green screens when I play videos in YouTube, etc., although if I back the video up several times it will usualy play as normal.
The game BF3 is very rough. Plays simularly following default install video settings, or manulay lowering all to min. In single player campaign, video lock ups that can last for several seconds with 'record skipping' audio. Super lag. But if I don't move, it looks and sounds great usualy, the other characters moving etc.
Tried online several times, loads to blurry intro screen, then kicks to desktop.
Is this most likely a RAM issue? I am on 2gb now, and need to order another matching set, so will have 4gb in total later.
Or are there artifacts from the old video driver?
Or whole system is no good for BF3?

Thanks

 

[I4AT]

Oh sorry, I re-read your previous post. Try updating to the latest BIOS if you don't have it already. Rarely makes a difference when overclocking but doesn't hurt to try, and they might have even added a few more options.

Well on some motherboards when a 1333mhz FSB CPU is detected they'll automatically adjust the memory ratios, not sure if that's the case with yours.

For example, I know on some Gigabyte boards when an 800mhz FSB CPU is installed the memory ratios are 2.66, 3.33, and 4.00 (533, 667, and 800mhz DDR2 at 200mhz CPU frequency).

Then when a 1333mhz FSB CPU is installed they change to 1.60, 2.00, and 2.40 (still 533, 667, and 800mhz DDR2 at 333mhz CPU frequency).

You can check to see if your board does the same by installing a program like CPUID. When launched this will tell you your current voltages, FSB, CPU speed, and RAM speed. If at 380 CPU frequency and 667 DRAM frequency your RAM is reading ~760mhz then you can rule it out as the bottleneck. The likely culprit in that case would be your motherboard simply not being able to handle such a high FSB speed.

If that's the case you'll just need to start really small, at like 340 CPU frequency and work your way up in no more than 5mhz increments until you find your max stable overclock. You can also lower your CPU ratio to 7x to take the CPU out of the equation and pin the motherboard as the definite bottleneck. At 400 CPU frequency with a CPU ratio of 7 your clockspeed would be 2.8ghz, which is lower than stock. If you're still experiencing crashing then it's most likely the board.

If so, the only way you'd be able to up your clockspeed is to trade for another CPU like an E7500 or an E6700, probably not worth the hassle even if it was a feasible option, and you'd also lose 2-3mb cache, which may or may not make a difference in BF3, I'm not sure.

But if Tom's Hardware is to be believed (i3 530 and i7 2600K both benching within 1fps of each other) then an E8400 probably isn't going to be holding you back any amount significant enough to warrant a full system upgrade, you should be fine with a proper GPU and 4GB of RAM.

I think the additional RAM when it arrives will smooth out some of your stuttering issues. The game might be paging your HD a lot for additional memory causing the chop/skipping. It sounds like you also have driver issues going on as well though. Make sure you have the latest DirectX runtime. Try Driver Sweeper 3.2 to clean any old video drivers and reinstall the latest ones. Also check for any updated (onboard?) audio drivers.

 

[TheNiceGuy]

Thanks I4AT
I'll take it one step at a time. Runtime is uptodate. First, try to resolve the radeon driver conflict. Then install new RAM when it arrives. I just ordered 2 new dimms.
I downloaded the drive sweeper. Do I delete all the (many) items that pop up under the "AMD - Display" catagory? How will I be sure I have the correct new drivers? And how will I see the screen to install if there are no display drivers running?

 

[I4AT]

Different people have different methods, I'd uninstall the current drivers from add/remove programs or the device manager first, then reboot into safe mode and use driver sweeper to remove all the AMD Display files.

When you reboot to install the new drivers it'll default to the generic Windows driver and you'll just be in like 800x600. Just go with whatever's the latest official driver from AMD's website.

 

[silvan4now]

from the cost perspective of things i think the prices are somehow the same...the only plus that i see from a console perspective would be that of the multiplayer on the same device....

 

[MrDuma]

well there is also the fact that you have much more fun just playing with friends on a console and a big screen

 

[TheNiceGuy]

Thanks I4AT. That Driver procedure did the trick.
Also installed 4gb DDR2. I can access all game features now.
All graphics set to lowest. Anything I can add that is unlikely to destroy performance?
Have tried a few online servers that show up as low ping (25 and under) on the browser. Unsure of what actual performance is in game, ie if a 400 ping player comes on. cant see my own ping in game. I assume ping issues follow same principles as BF2?
Outdoor maps with a few or no other players run very smooth. Metro with 64 full players was almost unplayable, especially around the 2 stairwells with everyone jammed in there.

Overall impressions were mixed. I honestly just wished they upgraded BF2. I don't need bleeding edge graphics, and the constant scramble for new hardware, drivers, and all the attendant hassle. Just a stable fun game. But I guess most people aren't like me, and enjoy the constant hardware quests and re-installs and re-learning of favorite games? I guess at this point in my life I just like to relax and have a laugh at the end of the day with an online game I know well if there's nothing else going on here at night.
Unfortunately, when BF3 was released, most of the BC2 servers with playable ping in my area disappeared.
It kind of put things in perspective to see people with top-end systems spending most of their time upset about something, weather it be an EA server problem, unable to get another players cooperation, or a jerk admin.

 

[I4AT]

You can bring up a box showing your ping by pressing CTRL ALT S (IGO time) in game, I'm not sure if this displays your ping in realtime or just upon entry of the server though.

You can also bring up the console with ~ (not sure if it has to be enabled first in the options) and then type in "render.drawfps 1" to bring up a framerate monitor on screen. Then type "render.drawfps 0" to get rid of it.

Just to clarify is this on your 4850 or did you already upgrade to a 6850?

On low settings do ambient occlusion and antialiasing both get set to off/none?

 

[TheNiceGuy]

This is 4850 still.
I set AO and AA to off.
Would lowering screen resolution solve the lag problems? Or is it some kind of integral programming issue that will give lag online no matter how low I set things?

 

[pugh]

If you have a MC nearby, you could get a great gaming PC for not much $$$.

i3-2100 + cheap H67 MB ~$120
8 GB DDR3 ~$40
AMD 6870 ~$140AR

Thats only $300 and would be a great system, along with your existing PSU + HDDS to build on later. Don't forget you could sell your existing DDR2, CPU, and MB for >$100 and end-up with a net cost of only ~$200 (or less).

It's a great time to build a budget system.

I too had to snicker at this.. Said he was in Japan yet MC is mentioned... lol