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Is it weird that i'm an atheist that's pro-religion?

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PaperclipGod

Banned
It feels as though people like Dawkins are missing one big point when discussing how absurd religion is - not everyone is capable of living a happy, fulfilling life without it. Not everyone would have the moral fortitude to do what's right without the fear of god. Hell, not everyone wants to live in a world where life seems to have little point.

Im an atheist through and through. I dont believe in any sort of higher being (at least one that cares about who or what we are), yet at the same time i find myself envying theists. Wouldn't it be nice to truly believe that you'll be taken care of for eternity? That you never really die, you just go somewhere nicer?

Religion does so much good: It gives people a sense of purpose, it motivates them to act in a moral way, it gives them a common belief to rally behind. It binds people together. Obviously there have been plenty of wars and death on behalf of religion, too - but how can we say that there wouldn't be just as much death without religion? If anyone saw that south park episode a few weeks ago where Cartman visits the future to find the planet divided into different factions based on which subtheory of evolution they believe in, you'll get my point.

People will always find things to disagree on. Hell, look at US politics over the past 150 years: In the 1850's the biggest issue was whether or not blacks should be kept as property. 100 years ago it was whether or not women should be allowed to vote. 75 years ago we were changing the entire interpretation of the constitution with the New Deal. Today the biggest issues are how to bail out social security and whether or not we should impeach a president for a blowjob. The more things we agree on, the more things we find to disagree on. So that said, why is religion so awful? At least there's a good side to go along with the bad, right?
 
I agree to a point. I'm an athiest, and I think that overall religion has done more good than harm. For most people, most of the time, religion is beneficial and should be continued.

However, I don't envy the religious. Their belief in eternal life is my biggest nightmare (at least in any way that I can imagine).

I am annoyed with the drawbacks of religion, but I think those can be changed from within. IE the drawbacks can be mitigated without ending the religion. For example, the Catholic church can end much of the sexism in the world by allowing women in positions of power. Or, the fighting in the Middle East could be ended if believers there stuck true to their religious ideals.

Edit: I am intrigued by my athiest paperclip god. Do you not believe in yourself?

Edit 2: I hope people of ATOT can be civil in this thread and that no one will complain about the thread (wrong forum / repost / lawnchair / etc people can leave now and don't need to bother to post in this thread). I suspect this won't be the case though.
 
Eh, I think it's just as bad as it is good. There have been MANY wars in the name of religion but on the other hand if it wasn't for the monks most of human history would have been lost during the dark ages.
 
religion also causes such things as the Holocaust and 911...so as far as i'm concerned religious holy rollers can suck it!
 
It's hard to say how most people would act without their belief. It's easy to imagine it either way; a utopia without religious wars where science could progress uninhibited... or a lawless "wild west" because people who don't fear judgement have no incentive to behave.

On a personal level, I can't stand it. Right or wrong, I can't not react to 9/11, to teaching religion in public schools in a country which was founded with religious freedom in mind, to the discrimination I face as an atheist nor the absurdity and irony of being considered insane for NOT believing in a big invisible guy in the sky. I prefer to think our instinct to behave is based on empathy, an emotion deeper than religion, and that we'd be better off without religion. Religion certainly doesn't keep all people in line, it's all too easy to simply justify horrible crimes by doing it in the name of one's god.
 
Originally posted by: dullard

Edit: I am intrigued by my athiest paperclip god. Do you not believe in yourself?
Click to expand...

I believe in myself. Just not in the tactics that many prominent atheists have been taking lately. People like Dawkins are starting to make the debate a little more vicious, when i think that very attitude of "im right and you're wrong" is exactly what most theists do. Not only are they contradicting themselves, but they're forgetting that religion is not the root of evil - evolution is. Religion doesnt cause Hitler and Stalin, genetics and environment do.
 
Originally posted by: CKent
It's hard to say how most people would act without their belief. It's easy to imagine it either way; a utopia without religious wars where science could progress uninhibited... or a lawless "wild west" because people who don't fear judgement have no incentive to behave.

On a personal level, I can't stand it. Right or wrong, I can't not react to 9/11, to teaching religion in public schools in a country which was founded with religious freedom in mind, to the discrimination I face as an atheist nor the absurdity and irony of being considered insane for NOT believing in a big invisible guy in the sky. I prefer to think our instinct to behave is based on empathy, an emotion deeper than religion, and that we'd be better off without religion. Religion certainly doesn't keep all people in line, it's all too easy to simply justify horrible crimes by doing it in the name of one's god.
Click to expand...

Don't forget that your idea of religious freedom and the founders idea of religious freedom have two VERY different definitions. This country was, 200 years ago, 99% christian (ignoring the native americans). They wanted freedom to practice religion as they chose, and they wanted a separation of church and state, but to them that only went so far as to not have a state sponsored religion. They didnt care about prayer in school because back then everyone prayed to the same god. Nowadays people get nuts even when having to say something as benign as "under god." Now, if you dont believe in god, then whats the harm in others reciting that phrase in front of you? Is it suddenly making you a believer? No, its not. Is it hurting you in anyway? Nope. Whats the harm then? The state isnt forcing you to believe one religion over another.

 
Originally posted by: fishface313
religion also causes such things as the Holocaust and 911...so as far as i'm concerned religious holy rollers can suck it!
Click to expand...


9/11 yes. A perversion of a religion and some sick peoples interpretation of thier religion.

I think saying religion caused the holocaust would be like blaming black people for racism.
 
I'm agnostic.

Religion brings peace of mind to a lot of people. Individually, it's great, but in the masses, it's a mixed bag of results.
 
the problem with religion is that its doctrines aren't as changeable as national laws so as society continues to evolve, the strain between what people think are acceptable and what religion says is acceptable gets larger and larger. but when people point to fundamentalists that cause all this violence, i think a lot of it is just socioeconomic factors using religion as a banner. without religion the holocaust still would have happened, except it'd be killing on the bases of ethnicity instead of religion.
 
Originally posted by: fishface313
religion also causes such things as the Holocaust and 911...so as far as i'm concerned religious holy rollers can suck it!
Click to expand...

I am going to be civil in this thread, but please, stop posting. Please.


I'm a Christian, and let me say that it is such a relief to see this come out of ATOT for once. Kudos for everyone in here being logical and understanding. This is why I love ATOT.

:heart:
 
IMO there is a difference between religion and believing in god.

Religion is a philosophical concept, a 'way of knowing', in which you discard all evidence around you in favor of belief in unchangeable predefined 'facts'. This is as opposed to science, which is always willing to give up a piece of 'knowledge' when new evidence is presented.

With that in mind, I think believing in god can be a positive thing, but religion is always negative.
 
Originally posted by: Atheus
IMO there is a difference between religion and believing in god.

Religion is a philosophical concept, a 'way of knowing', in which you discard all evidence around you in favor of belief in unchangeable predefined 'facts'. This is as opposed to science, which is always willing to give up a piece of 'knowledge' when new evidence is presented.

With that in mind, I think believing in god can be a positive thing, but religion is always negative.
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I think I can agree to this.
 
Nope, I don't envy religious people at all.

In fact some of these religious nutjobs really disgust me. Almost everything that is wrong with the US nowadays stems from religion, and it's quite sad actually.
 
Originally posted by: fatpat268
Nope, I don't envy religious people at all.

In fact some of these religious nutjobs really disgust me. Almost everything that is wrong with the US nowadays stems from religion, and it's quite sad actually.
Click to expand...

Wow, there goes the whole "keep in nice" thing. Everything bad stems from religion? I HIGHLY doubt that. How does our growing national debt stem from religion? Or the failing power of the dollar?

Nutjobs are bad, but not every religious person is a nutjob. Remember that next time you decide to make generalized descriptions of religion...
 
I'm a strong atheist and I don't see the point in religion. But I also dislike Dawkins, and I think he's as bad as some religious people.
I don't like that other people are religious, and I would be happy if it went away, but I don't really like the way Dawkins goes about things, and I think if people want to be religious, they they can be, and it's their choice, but I'd rather they chose not to be.
Dawkins seems like any religious fanatic who wants to convert everyone, only instead of Islam or Christianity, he wants to covert them to be atheists in the same way others try and make people religious.
 
Originally posted by: fatpat268
Nope, I don't envy religious people at all.

In fact some of these religious nutjobs really disgust me. Almost everything that is wrong with the US nowadays stems from religion, and it's quite sad actually.
Click to expand...

Talk about a nutjob...
 
Religion as a lifestyle is a good thing.
Religion as a belief is an awful thing.

The moment you develop a "We're right, you're wrong" mentality that is inherently required with a 'belief', you're headed towards drama. Quickly.
 
Originally posted by: fishface313
religion also causes such things as the Holocaust and 911...so as far as i'm concerned religious holy rollers can suck it!
Click to expand...

so how exactly did religion fuel the holocaust?
 
Spiritually/philosophically, I disagree with you, but politically/socially, I agree. I believe in Jesus but I believe that Christianity for the most part got it wrong. But I also believe that the First Amendment is the single most important of the foundations of American freedom. The US as a world leader needs to stick to the original plan for freedoms if we are ever going to regain our respect and goodwill in the world community.

Merry Christmas!
 
Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
Today the biggest issues are how to bail out social security and whether or not we should impeach a president for a blowjob.
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What, did you copy/paste this post from a 10 year old email?
 
Originally posted by: Doctor Nyse
Religion as a lifestyle is a good thing.
Religion as a belief is an awful thing.

The moment you develop a "We're right, you're wrong" mentality that is inherently required with a 'belief', you're headed towards drama. Quickly.
Click to expand...

I gotta disagree. It's fine to think "we're right, they're wrong", but it's not OK to shove your belief down someone else's throat.
 
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