Is it unethical that game licenses aren't tradeable?

Naer

Diamond Member
Nov 28, 2013
3,482
182
106
If I don't like a game, I think I should be able to trade the license. People should treat game licensing and ownership part of a market system. Average steam user doesn't even play 100 percent of their games. That is waste imo. Making game ownership tradable will inevitably make better games

Thoughts?
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,969
592
136
It used to be that way... before steam etc... you could sell your CD /w its key. But the companies want more money so they don't want you doing that. It's so bad now, the publishers don't want you even using it between services if you have a cloud service like GeForce Now a lot of times. Honestly thats why Stadia is failing, you couldn't use your own games on it, so stupid.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
24,397
136
Yes it should be made a regulation that you must be able to sell your digital game licenses. Just like it should be made a regulation that all these fees and bullshit they tack on after the so-called 'price' of an item/service/ticket are banned as well.
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
14,698
3,029
136
broken record mode: 1
we warned you. we spent 10 years warning you, and you didn't listen.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
15,142
10,041
136
It used to be that way... before steam etc... you could sell your CD /w its key. But the companies want more money so they don't want you doing that. It's so bad now, the publishers don't want you even using it between services if you have a cloud service like GeForce Now a lot of times. Honestly thats why Stadia is failing, you couldn't use your own games on it, so stupid.


Well, yeah, it's due to the internet, really. And it's much more than just games - increasingly things are now a "service" rather than a physical product. Music, books, etc. All are going in the direction of requiring a subscription for a "licence". The internet has increased corporate control of everything.

Once the "internet of things" is truly established, your car, or even bicycle, will require a permanent internet connection and will stop working if you don't make regular payments. Pacemakers and other medical devices will probably follow! Breast implants will suddenly deflate unless you keep up your subscription payments, and your eye-glasses will suddenly stop focusing.

Was it Phillip K Dick who had a passage in a novel where the protagonist couldn't get out of a room because he didn't have the money to pay the fee for the door to operate? That's the direction we're headed.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
15,142
10,041
136
Ah, found the passage I remembered.


The door refused to open. It said, 'Five cents, please.'

He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. 'I'll pay you tomorrow,' he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. 'What I pay you,' he informed it, 'is in the nature of a gratuity; I don't have to pay you.'

'I think otherwise,' the door said. 'Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt.'

In his desk drawer he found the contract; since signing it he had found it necessary to refer to the document many times. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip.

'You discover I'm right,' the door said. It sounded smug.

From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt's money-gulping door.

'I'll sue you,' the door said as the first screw fell out.

Joe Chip said, 'I've never been sued by a door. But I guess I can live with it.'
 
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TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
4,027
753
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Well, yeah, it's due to the internet, really. And it's much more than just games - increasingly things are now a "service" rather than a physical product. Music, books, etc. All are going in the direction of requiring a subscription for a "licence". The internet has increased corporate control of everything.
When VHS first came out a movie would be around $80-90 to buy and after a few times watching it the quality would degrade, that amount of money now is almost a full year of netflix, if you factor in inflation probably more than a year.
Also you save immense amounts of space in your home and you don't have to hunt down a tape in your collection if you want to watch it, you don't even have to get up from your couch.
Everything is becoming a service because it's what people want, it's like paying somebody to do all the work for you and somebody else tells you that you are losing the right to do the work yourself...
Once the "internet of things" is truly established, your car, or even bicycle, will require a permanent internet connection and will stop working if you don't make regular payments. Pacemakers and other medical devices will probably follow! Breast implants will suddenly deflate unless you keep up your subscription payments, and your eye-glasses will suddenly stop focusing.
Yeah, no it won't.
It looks like that because everybody is trying to make as much money as possible before the laws catch up and stops all of this crap.
You will have to pay the internet for your car on a regular basis if you want internet in your car, but everything else is still going to work.


On topic, the internet made it way too easy for people to transfer licenses if they could, it would mean a serious loss of money for the devs, people would buy a brand new game finish it in a day or two and turn around and sell it causing the devs to lose a full price sale, if the second person also finished it quickly enough then devs would lose another full price sale and so on.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
19,971
7,067
136
Personally I don't have the need. I can't remember the last time I bought a game at full price, and besides paying premium for World of Tanks I use less than $100 for games every year.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
70,746
13,855
126
www.anyf.ca
I miss the good old days when you got a physical copy of stuff and it just worked, even offline. Everything is digital and tied to some cloud/account now and you don't really own it. Consider steam for example. If you format your PC you can reinstall through Steam, but you're at their mercy. They could shut down the server or remove your right to a game at any time. Consoles seem to be this way too, you're tied to the cloud and they want you to make an account before you can even use the damn thing.

You will own nothing and be happy. That's the end game they want.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
15,142
10,041
136
Also you save immense amounts of space in your home and you don't have to hunt down a tape in your collection if you want to watch it, you don't even have to get up from your couch.

Yeah, because a memory card or an external hard drive takes up such a vast amount of space. :rolleyes:

Everything is becoming a service because it's what people want, it's like paying somebody to do all the work for you and somebody else tells you that you are losing the right to do the work yourself...

Even if it's "what people want" (which I would dispute - it's clearly driven in good part by what the corporations that own the "content" want) the "market" can constitute a "tyranny of the majority" just as much as democracy can.

You mention Netflix, and, frankly, I'm not that bothered about movies, because they are things you usually don't consume more than once anyway. Having corporations able to rescind or re-edit or withdraw books long after they've been published, for example, is another matter.
 

TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
4,027
753
126
I miss the good old days when you got a physical copy of stuff and it just worked, even offline.
What even... there was no online back then there was barely any internet at all, and for the longest time there was only BBS.
You bought your copy of a game and where praying that nothing would ever happen to it, disk got scratched? buy a new copy, lost the booklet with the code? Buy a new copy, Sat on the case with the cd in it? but a new copy.
Now your whole house could burn down, knock on wood, and as long as you remember your login you have all your games there.
Yeah, because a memory card or an external hard drive takes up such a vast amount of space. :rolleyes:
Sure but then we are back at it being a lot of work to transfer all your movies, transcoding is a huge hustle, and if you are into 4k...and then you need backups or you might have to all of that again ... if you kept the originals which would negate your argument.
(Yeah if you are illegal it's super convenient, but we are mainly talking about legal means of doing things)

Even if it's "what people want" (which I would dispute - it's clearly driven in good part by what the corporations that own the "content" want) the "market" can constitute a "tyranny of the majority" just as much as democracy can.
Of course the corporations want that as well, it's so much easier and faster and cheaper for them as well, and sure of course they also have a lot more control that way but that's also why they can offer the services so cheaply, they know that they lose much less money to piracy.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,354
10,880
136
Sorry to be "that guy" but I LOVE Steam now that "offline" mode finally works the way it's supposed to although I also do miss physical-media as well. (I still have a Pioneer 16x Blu-Ray burner in my backup PC)

My only real beef is that I'll freaking never ever get to play all the games in my humongus backlog!

:p
 
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Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,684
5,228
136
I question the sanity of buying movies online....like from Amazon, HBO, etc., and only find that once you quit the service, your "ownership" of the movie you "bought" isn't anything like owning a physical object, meaning your "ownership" of said movie is completely dependent upon maintaining the service. Quit the service, lose ownership of what you bought from it.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
63,061
19,371
136
I question the sanity of buying movies online....like from Amazon, HBO, etc., and only find that once you quit the service, your "ownership" of the movie you "bought" isn't anything like owning a physical object, meaning your "ownership" of said movie is completely dependent upon maintaining the service. Quit the service, lose ownership of what you bought from it.
I only "buy" digital movies when it's a comparable cost to renting, so like $3-5.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
24,397
136
I question the sanity of buying movies online....like from Amazon, HBO, etc., and only find that once you quit the service, your "ownership" of the movie you "bought" isn't anything like owning a physical object, meaning your "ownership" of said movie is completely dependent upon maintaining the service. Quit the service, lose ownership of what you bought from it.

I am pretty sure if you buy a movie from Amazon it's yours, you do not need to pay for a Prime account to see it, you just have to have an active Amazon account to login and view it. Which is a kind of weird concept, but you do not need to pay for an additional service to have access to that content. Like with YouTube - you can buy a movie there, for example I bought the Anthony Bourdain documentary. I do not need to pay for YouTube premium to see it. It's always there for me to watch when I log into my YouTube account. However I do not see an option to download it.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
63,061
19,371
136
I am pretty sure if you buy a movie from Amazon it's yours, you do not need to pay for a Prime account to see it, you just have to have an active Amazon account to login and view it. Which is a kind of weird concept, but you do not need to pay for an additional service to have access to that content. Like with YouTube - you can buy a movie there, for example I bought the Anthony Bourdain documentary. I do not need to pay for YouTube premium to see it. It's always there for me to watch when I log into my YouTube account. However I do not see an option to download it.
I wonder if youtube-dl can do that, not sure.
 

gdansk

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
4,680
7,905
136
I consider it unfair and illogical. But unethical? I'm not sure. Software licensing is a weird concept to begin with, how do we limit an infinitely replicable set of bits? Now days many games are in constant contact with servers which solves the duplication problem. But I still don't see why you cannot transfer your license to someone else so long as you no longer use it.
 

TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
4,027
753
126
I consider it unfair and illogical.
If you would write anything, say a book, and it took you even just one year of actual work to do it, would you at release say "Hey, it's ok if just one person on the world pays me for it and the other 8bil get it as a digital hand-me-down" ?
Yes, this is an extreme example but this is basically the problem, small software houses and small music labels, publishing houses would close down real fast, bigger ones would probably be able to survive it, this is the exact opposite of what we as consumers want, we want the small houses to thrive so we can have at least some choice in what we consume.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,367
10,764
126
If I wrote anything, it would be under the CC-BY-SA license. Why the fuck should "creators" get paid forever for their work? I'd like to keep getting paid for jobs I did 20 years ago. Interestingly, now would be a great time to implement it. Since everyone uses electronic toll collectors, they could pay me every time they use some of my work. I'm thinking .01¢ would be more than fair for my share of the work on each piece of roadway that gets used, and I can just get a check every month with the tallied collections. I could retire...
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,666
6,547
126
Don't buy digital then.

I strictly buy physical unless the game is only available on digital, which is not very common on consoles and I don't do PC gaming. If I didn't do PSVR I'd probably only have like a couple Switch games that would be digital in my whole library because there are no physical versions of em.

If you don't like it, don't support it.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,354
10,880
136
I am pretty sure if you buy a movie from Amazon it's yours


I've purchased a grand total of TWO digital format movies/TV shows over the years but only one was from Amazon.

The first was the entire series Firefly however that company that I can't even recall the name of is long-gone and the license keys no longer work despite having both them and the original files stored. (I also have this on BRD)

The second was a copy of "Super-size me" of all things and it's still there and accessible.... although I very much doubt I'll ever watch it again.