Is it time to replace slave (minimum) wage with human wages?

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child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
176
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So many people are forced to work for what amounts to slave wages, or simply be a slave to welfare. These chains of poverty often cross multiple generations, something needs to be done.

Raising the minimum wage from slave type wage, to human wages, wages fit for a human, will go along way to break this chain. People will earn more money, with the extra money they will buy more goods. They will elevate themselves and their family. Most importantly they will finally be treated like human beings. Business owners will also see a boost in revenue from this extra money being spent. So it will be a boon for all.

Is it time we finally move beyond slave wages, and onto human wages?

Minimum (slave) wages NEED to exist. People in those positions need to find ways to better themselves, not demand higher wages simply because what they're getting isn't "fair" when the market says otherwise. Don't like the pay? Work your way up or find a better job.

My wife recently graduated college to become a nurse. She was fortunate to receive an offer to work at a clinic with M-F, 8-5 hours. However, the nursing staff is part of a union. All nurses' pay is predetermined based on experience. She can see exactly what she's going to make after 1 year of service, 5 years of service, etc. and it's meager increases.

As a result, no one puts in much effort there. Why try to excel when you can band together and force a company to pay $XX? Everyone does the bare minimum to slide by. They'll make the same in 10 years whether they try or not. My wife is the type of person that when something needs to be done, she just does it. The other employees realize this and try to push their work onto her.

My wife and I would rather work hard and stand out from the crowd. If the company we work for doesn't reward us for that, we'll move on.
 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
0
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This is what? the 4th thread in OT or P&N that is covering the same thing?
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
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Screw all that, I want SUPER-human wages! Why? Because I said so, that's why.

I'm worth it, I promise. I'll work harder, I promise. I'll produce more, I promise.

Seriously, please pay me more.

I even said "please"... That means I get it, right?
 

bignateyk

Lifer
Apr 22, 2002
11,288
7
0
Nope. Some people are overpaid even with minimum wage. Seriously, when I was a teen and worked as a cashier in 1982 minimum wage was 3$ an hour. I had to enter the price manually, I had to add the tax manually, I had to know what was taxable, I had to bag it and load the carts. Same job today all you do is slide the product trough a scanner that does all the thinking for you. And you have some snot nosed teen bagging your customers shit for tips so really, WTF are you doing that you need more $$$? You want to make more than minimum wage learch a fucking skill and do some actual work. Same with fast food places, all you do is push a button and the machine makes change. I have no sympathy.

McDonalds could just get rid of cashiers altogether. I'm sure they could automate the process pretty easily.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
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McDonalds could just get rid of cashiers altogether. I'm sure they could automate the process pretty easily.

They could for reasonably intelligent customers. But what about the people that were barely capable of being a cashier before?
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,842
4,785
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Nope. Some people are overpaid even with minimum wage. Seriously, when I was a teen and worked as a cashier in 1982 minimum wage was 3$ an hour. I had to enter the price manually, I had to add the tax manually, I had to know what was taxable, I had to bag it and load the carts. Same job today all you do is slide the product trough a scanner that does all the thinking for you. And you have some snot nosed teen bagging your customers shit for tips so really, WTF are you doing that you need more $$$? You want to make more than minimum wage learch a fucking skill and do some actual work. Same with fast food places, all you do is push a button and the machine makes change. I have no sympathy.

I must be an old geezer too to agree with someone like this. Look Oyeve, I think you need to break it down more and speak their language to better illustrate your points:

"u gotta use yo mind en shit yo' stop actin' a foo and use dat math to add up dem prices and calculate dem taxes instead o jus sittin der scanin' shityo. den I had ta bag it 4 dem an put it n ther cart yo n' shit"
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
The interesting part about this is that politicians who propose raising the minimum wage understand that eventually inflation will eat up this wage increase in due time so its no big deal to propose it now to gain votes.

Additionally tying it to the CPI is also equally as flawed because the CPI being a statistical number based on what is counted or not counted toward inflation, can also be manipulated so that minimum wage increases are neutralized in the future, albeit at the cost of revealing the manipulation of the CPI to mask inflation.

Thus you are going to go full retard on the minimum wage you might as well tie it to the actual measure of the money supply in the economy rather than allow it be eroded by inflation or undermined by a manipulated CPI.

Edit As for arguments about increasing worker productivity well you cannot make such arguments without first acknowledging where those gains came from, i.e. technology and not from people doubling or tripling their outputs on their own without the aid of technology which has allowed for those increases to occur in the first place.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
They could for reasonably intelligent customers. But what about the people that were barely capable of being a cashier before?

Let's see they could replace half their staff with automated machines and leave a barebone staff for the technologically impaired people who eat at McDonalds and slowly overtime decrease that staff as more and more people become accustom to their self-service order and check automation process.

In other words the changes would be gradual enough that eventually you'd find it hard to remember or believe there was a time that anyone worked at McDonald's save for the few people kept around to troubleshoot and maintain their systems on emergency occasions, e.g. if the power goes out. However that doesn't take much of a staff to begin if redundancies are built into their system such as back up generators, computer systems, etc.
 
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Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
So many people are forced to work for what amounts to slave wages, or simply be a slave to welfare. These chains of poverty often cross multiple generations, something needs to be done.

Raising the minimum wage from slave type wage, to human wages, wages fit for a human, will go along way to break this chain. People will earn more money, with the extra money they will buy more goods. They will elevate themselves and their family. Most importantly they will finally be treated like human beings. Business owners will also see a boost in revenue from this extra money being spent. So it will be a boon for all.

Is it time we finally move beyond slave wages, and onto human wages?
um, no
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
I must be an old geezer too to agree with someone like this. Look Oyeve, I think you need to break it down more and speak their language to better illustrate your points:

"u gotta use yo mind en shit yo' stop actin' a foo and use dat math to add up dem prices and calculate dem taxes instead o jus sittin der scanin' shityo. den I had ta bag it 4 dem an put it n ther cart yo n' shit"

Word!
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Stupid idea. So we raise minimum wage. Now companies just increase the price of their products to compensate. Now cost of living goes up. Now minimum wage is no longer a living wage again.

Rinse and repeat. There will always be poor people.

liberals like the OP and others just can not and will not ever understand that.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
in your analysis, minimum wage = slave wage

therefore, increasing minimum wage will always = slave wage
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Because its not true

You're right it not ALWAYS true of some businesses.

For example many will use such hikes for minimum wage jobs to move jobs overseas, push for greater and greater automation, reduce hours of their current staff, reduce benefits, hire less workers over time, or if possible they reduce the quality and quantity of goods and services provided to their customers at the same cost which is a stealth price hike to the consumer, etc. In the worse case scenario for businesses who are too small or who rely on razor thin profit margins to compete and for which they are unable to do the above mention options they just go out of business.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
You're right it not ALWAYS true of some businesses.

For example many will use such hikes for minimum wage jobs to move jobs overseas, push for greater and greater automation, reduce hours of their current staff, reduce benefits, hire less workers over time, or if possible they reduce the quality and quantity of goods and services provided to their customers at the same cost which is a stealth price hike to the consumer, etc. In the worse case scenario for businesses who are too small or who rely on razor thin profit margins to compete and for which they are unable to do the above mention options they just go out of business.

The cost of goods is something like

Raw Materials + Capital + Labor.

Increasing minimum wage only increases one of those costs. It should be easy to see that increasing minimum wage is a net gain for those making minimum wage.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,349
16,727
136
You're right it not ALWAYS true of some businesses.

For example many will use such hikes for minimum wage jobs to move jobs overseas, push for greater and greater automation, reduce hours of their current staff, reduce benefits, hire less workers over time, or if possible they reduce the quality and quantity of goods and services provided to their customers at the same cost which is a stealth price hike to the consumer, etc. In the worse case scenario for businesses who are too small or who rely on razor thin profit margins to compete and for which they are unable to do the above mention options they just go out of business.

Yes, if you want to single out a few businesses and use anecdotal evidence as proof of your claim then you would be correct.

However if you want to be honest and look at minimum wage objectively using standard methods of measurement you will find that there is no correlation between raising minimum wage and CPI, or unemployment, or corporate profits.