Is it the watts?

[MrGrim999]

I upgraded my home theater system in my bedroom 7 months ago and got the Klipsch Quintet 5th generation satellite speaker system, SVS PB-1000 subwoofer and the Yamaha RX-V377 receiver. My room is about 12 X 12. The subwoofer blew me away as far as quality and have absolutely no complaints about it. The Klipsch speakers sound good but I had some questions about the power. I noticed when I'm watching a blu ray movie during the day and I want to crank the volume, it sounds like it bottoms out when the volume gets around -26. If I make it any louder I don't hear any difference. Sound & Vision gave the quintets such a great review here....http://www.soundandvision.com/content/klipsch-quintet-speaker-system#4mtkrkXtWW8vKkoI.97

Is it the wattage thats causing the volume to bottom out? The specs say the satellites are 50 watts and the center is 75 watts. I noticed that cheaper speaker systems have satellites at 100 watts each. Is it the wattage that determines how loud they are?

 

[tential]

Wattage is a small part and really isn't the problem. The problem is you want to use tiny little speakers to get "big" sound and that really won't happen.

Personally, I wouldn't use those speakers for free lol. I'd get a beefier speaker.

I'll let someone give you a recommendation since I prefer to build since it's cheap and easy to do(well assemble I guess is the more correct term).

 

[Deders]

Does it distort the sound as you turn it up? According to the specs the amp is at the end of he recommended wattage, but it ranges from 75W to 300W which is a surprisingly vast range.

 

[MrGrim999]

Does it distort the sound as you turn it up? According to the specs the amp is at the end of he recommended wattage, but it ranges from 75W to 300W which is a surprisingly vast range.

Nah I haven't heard it distort at all. I didn't want to risk damaging the speakers so I really didn't go any higher than -14. But going from around -26 to -14 I hear no difference. I spoke to a friend recently that had the same issue. I checked all the receiver volume options so it's nothing like that. I guess I need a more powerful receiver. According to the specs, it's 100watts 1 channel, then drops to 70watts 2 channel. So I'm guessing since I'm using 5 speakers it drops to around 40 watts per speaker? Am I right?

 

[s44]

It's probably the AVR. Yamaha units can only do a small, small fraction of their rated power when you're running multichannel... 40wpc multichannel is probably being generous. This is one reason I don't recommend them.

 

[Anubis]

It's probably the AVR. Yamaha units can only do a small, small fraction of their rated power when you're running multichannel... 40wpc multichannel is probably being generous. This is one reason I don't recommend them.

they aren't really any different vs the rest in the price range when it comes to this

the higher end models do much better from everyone at maintain power when running all channels

check the trim levels on the AVR. you can try raising them which will help. but it does sound like you are simply running out of headroom in the AVR

 

[MrGrim999]

It's probably the AVR. Yamaha units can only do a small, small fraction of their rated power when you're running multichannel... 40wpc multichannel is probably being generous. This is one reason I don't recommend them.

Yea that's what I figured. Thanks for the replies guys.

 

[s44]

they aren't really any different vs the rest in the price range when it comes to this

the higher end models do much better from everyone at maintain power when running all channels

No, not even close to true. Yamaha benches worse than Denon, Onkyo, and Marantz at every price point. Even their $1700 AVR can't deliver 50 clean watts to five channels:
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-aventage-rx-a2040-av-receiver-review-test-bench

(Here's a $700MSRP Onkyo for comparison)
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/onkyo-tx-nr636-av-receiver-test-bench

 

[razel]

I agree that those speaker drivers 3.5" for woofers are too small to try and fill a room. I have 3" Orb Audios and I don't expect those at all to do the same. I end up using those for surrounds. I also agree that most Yamaha receivers since 2008-ish realistically put out 50-70watts on a good day, so like everyone mentioned don't be too surprised.

Not the end of the world though, you can try a few things before trying more wattage. Get your receivers to drive fewer channels (4.1) and set your crossover higher. That should give your receiver more power. More likely by default your crossover is at 80hz, set it to 160hz. For every half frequency you play it takes double the power to produce the same db. Just try it and see if you notice any difference... if not then the Yamaha really cannot put out more power.

You can even try to double up the 4 satellite to play the same channel next to each other. Two identical speakers playing the same sound will reinforce one another 3db... that's the same as doubling your wattage.

Have fun.

 

[Charmonium]

Not the end of the world though, you can try a few things before trying more wattage. Get your receivers to drive fewer channels (4.1) and set your crossover higher. That should give your receiver more power. More likely by default your crossover is at 80hz, set it to 160hz. For every half frequency you play it takes double the power to produce the same db. Just try it and see if you notice any difference... if not then the Yamaha really cannot put out more power.

Those speakers have a low end of 120hz - and the response probably falls off significantly before that. If that's the case, the issue is no frequency response between the top end of the woofer and the low end of the speakers. I don't think it's a power issue at all.

 

[razel]

Sound and Vision tests the RX-V377 at about 41 watts with 5 channels driven. 80watts with 2.

If the low end is 120hz that you absolutely must ensure that the crossover is set to around that area. That still allows for more power reserved. The amp is not wasting that power.

 

[MrGrim999]

Sound and Vision tests the RX-V377 at about 41 watts with 5 channels driven. 80watts with 2.

If the low end is 120hz that you absolutely must ensure that the crossover is set to around that area. That still allows for more power reserved. The amp is not wasting that power.

Ahhh...so my estimate was spot on hehe. And yes, I set the crossover to 120hz. I double checked the levels for the satellites and they are all at -1.0 and - 0.5 which I believe is ok. Right?

 

[Charmonium]

hhh...so my estimate was spot on hehe. And yes, I set the crossover to 120hz

Yes but more than likely, if you look at the frequency response curve for those speakers, you'll see that the response starts to drop off before 120hz. You'd have to look at the curve for your speakers to know for sure. If you look at the diagram at the link, it looks like the response starts to drop off at around 200hz and by 120hz you're down about 5db.

 

[MrGrim999]

My last setup was a simple Onkyo HTIB that I used for awhile. This was my first upgrade and they really don't sound bad, but, I'm just pissed that I dropped over $600.00 on the Klipsch's and just like you guys said I won't get the little extra I'm looking for from satellites. It's a small room (12x12) but I really should have tried to somehow fit bigger speakers.

 

[MrGrim999]

Yes but more than likely, if you look at the frequency response curve for those speakers, you'll see that the response starts to drop off before 120hz. You'd have to look at the curve for your speakers to know for sure. If you look at the diagram at the link, it looks like the response starts to drop off at around 200hz and by 120hz you're down about 5db.

I just tried to understand that diagram to no avail haha. Could you help me out here bro? So what do you mean exactly? Try changing a setting or its a lost cause?

 

[Charmonium]

Frequency is on the bottom of the graph and decibels are on the vertical. What you want to see is a nice flat "curve" between the frequencies you care about. You don't want to see any bumps or droops.

The bottom axis is a little difficult to read because it's not linear but if you look at the vertical lines between 100 and 500 you can see that they represent 200hz, 300hz etc.

To answer your question, since you get a gradual 5db drop from 200hz to 120hz, I would set the crossover to a higher value so that more of the low frequencies get handled by the sub and see how it sounds. So if the next stop on your crossover is say 160hz, try that setting and see how it sounds. If you can go higher, try that too and see what you like better.

 

[MrGrim999]

Frequency is on the bottom of the graph and decibels are on the vertical. What you want to see is a nice flat "curve" between the frequencies you care about. You don't want to see any bumps or droops.

The bottom axis is a little difficult to read because it's not linear but if you look at the vertical lines between 100 and 500 you can see that they represent 200hz, 300hz etc.

To answer your question, since you get a gradual 5db drop from 200hz to 120hz, I would set the crossover to a higher value so that more of the low frequencies get handled by the sub and see how it sounds. So if the next stop on your crossover is say 160hz, try that setting and see how it sounds. If you can go higher, try that too and see what you like better.

Ah gotcha! I'll try that.

 

[MrGrim999]

I'm gonna vommit! I just saw my Klipsch speakers on sale for over 200 and paid over 600 in January for them!!

 

[sdifox]

I'm gonna vommit! I just saw my Klipsch speakers on sale for over 200 and paid over 600 in January for them!!

I paid 6900 for my speakers back in 1999

 

[MrGrim999]

I paid 6900 for my speakers back in 1999

I'm more pissed about the fact that I just bought them. I didn't crank them for a couple of months because the instructions mentioned a break in period. Oh well. Live and learn.

So if I were to replace the Klipsch speakers, what am I looking for exactly? Can anyone give some examples of a good center speaker or rear surrounds just to steer me in the right direction? Price wise , each speaker less than $1,000 range...

 

[Charmonium]

I have NHT Classic 3's for front channels and center speaker. Here is a link to the center speaker. It has 2 woofers, a mid-range and tweeter.

Most speakers are 2-way these days since they're cheaper to make but it's a lot easier get a more even frequency response with 3-ways and a good cross-over circuit.

The price is the same on their website as it is on amazon so I don't think you'll need to worry about finding them at a lower price anywhere.

 

[sdifox]

I'm more pissed about the fact that I just bought them. I didn't crank them for a couple of months because the instructions mentioned a break in period. Oh well. Live and learn.

So if I were to replace the Klipsch speakers, what am I looking for exactly? Can anyone give some examples of a good center speaker or rear surrounds just to steer me in the right direction? Price wise , each speaker less than $1,000 range...

well, speakers are very subjective. I spent two months listening to different speakers.

 

[NutBucket]

Exactly. And bigger is almost always better. Air must move to create volume and the laws of physics are harsh.

Edit: And the best deals are on the used market. Go that route if you can find something you like.

 

[Charmonium]

Edit: And the best deals are on the used market. Go that route if you can find something you like.

+10

 

[gar655]

I'm more pissed about the fact that I just bought them. I didn't crank them for a couple of months because the instructions mentioned a break in period. Oh well. Live and learn.

So if I were to replace the Klipsch speakers, what am I looking for exactly? Can anyone give some examples of a good center speaker or rear surrounds just to steer me in the right direction? Price wise , each speaker less than $1,000 range...

My AVR is 40 or 45 watts per channel but it was back when Harmon Kardon used a decent power supply so it puts out about that with 5 channels driven. That said when I was using 5 NHT SuperZeros (4.5" woofers, sealed, low efficiency of around 85db) with movies it would get loud enough that I had trouble talking to anyone sitting next to me. With certain music I would run out of power but by that time it was very loud- too loud for me to listen to for an extended time.

My room is 13x14 BTW. IMO it's more your speakers than your AVR but it could be a little of both.

As for speakers are you talking $1000 for the set or as you wrote $1K per speaker?

If the latter and you want loud but still great sounding and not have to change your AVR then-

3 of these
http://reaction-audio.myshopify.com/collections/speakers/products/cx-10?variant=823614953
and a pair of these for surrounds
http://reaction-audio.myshopify.com/collections/speakers/products/cx-8?variant=922786669

or
3 of these
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/speakers/products/mtm-210

and a pair of these
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/speakers/products/mt-110sr