Is it reasonable to ban Marijuana but not Alcohol?

[LordMagnusKain]

I believe that the legality of drugs * not the morality of taking them* should use common sense and take into account the following Info.:

Withdrawal: Presence and severity of characteristic withdrawal symptoms.

Reinforcement: A measure of the substance's ability, in human and animal tests, to get users to take it again and again, and in preference to other substances.

Tolerance: How much of the substance is needed to satisfy increasing cravings for it, and the level of stable need that is eventually reached.

Dependence: How difficult it is for the user to quit, the relapse rate, the percentage of people who eventually become dependent, the rating users give their own need for the substance and the degree to which the substance will be used in the face of evidence that it causes harm.

Intoxication: Though not usually counted as a measure of addiction in itself, the level of intoxication is associated with addiction and increases the personal and social damage a substance may do.

Intoxicant/W/R/T/D/I

Nicotine.....|3|4|2|1|5
Heroin.......|2|2|1|2|2
Cocaine.....|4|1|4|3|3
Alcohol......|1|3|3|4|1
Caffeine....|5|6|5|5|6
Marijuana..|6|5|6|6|4


I think it's a crime against our fellow humans to put people in jail for possession of a substance little worse than caffeine.

 

[Amused]

It's a crime to put people in jail for substance abuse period. It's no body's business if they choose to screw up their lives.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Amused
It's a crime to put people in jail for substance abuse period. It's no body's business if they choose to screw up their lives.

Yep, unless it affects someone in an illegal or harmful way who cares what they do to themself?

 

[Siddhartha]

Why was Prohibition overturned?

 

[nan0bug]

I think a lot more than pot should be legal. Cocaine, Heroin and Methamphetamines are bad, and Acid is one of those things that can really screw up a fragile mind, but beyond those drugs I think pretty much everything else should be legal. People are going to take what they want anyway, and I don't see the benefits of deterring usage through law for most drugs that I do with the ones I mentioned.

In fact, I'd almost say those mentioned above should be legal but the ramifications could be bad. Its an iffy subject.

I just think that if most drugs were legal, drug related crime would all but dissapear. You don't see people robbing stores at gunpoint for cigarettes very often do you? I've never heard of someone getting into a turf war over a liqour store.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Amused
It's a crime to put people in jail for substance abuse period. It's no body's business if they choose to screw up their lives.

Yep, unless it affects someone in an illegal or harmful way who cares what they do to themself?

Indeed.

The whole thing is laughable.

I am betting that as the old fuddy-duddies of the Reefer Madness period die and/or are elected out of office, things will eventually change.

Maybe not though. There are already at least two people that think cannabis is the devil.

 

[Aves]

Where is ffmcobalt to tell us all that marijuana is bad for no reason other than the fact that it's illegal, and that alcohol is OK because it's not illegal?

 

[Maleficus]

Completely stupid worthless law.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Why was Prohibition overturned?

because it was doing more harm to people than good.

 

[Eli]

Instead of spending billions of dollars to falsly educate people with stupid commercials, lock hundreds of thousands of harmless people up, etc..

They could be making hundreds of millions of dollars taxing the sale of cannabis. Coupled with this, they could properly educate people in school so they can make the decision for themselves.

Further, the cotton industry would experience competition if hemp was allowed to be grown for textile products. Not only does hemp produce better fabric than cotton, it would be cheaper due to competition.

The scope is much larger than that, though. Hemp seeds and their oil are an exceptional source of essential fatty acids and other nutrition.

There is just no reason. It makes no sense. Unless you have interests in products that hemp would compete well with.

 

[Tom]

That chart isn't accurate, and drinking alcohol in excess is also generally illegal, so it's a false comparison to compare legal use of alcohol, instead the proper comparison is to illegal use of alcohol, which is also..illegal.

In other words getting drunk is not legal, and there isn't a level of use of illegal narcotics that equates with moderate use of alcohol.

not to mention the affects of marijuana use take a very long time to completely go away and it's impractical to expect users are going to wait 3 weeks before operating a motor vehicle or undertaking other activities that put other people at risk.

 

[ViRGE]

Of course not, which is why we should make both illegal.:evil:

 

[javaconflicter]

Alcohol related deaths per year: In the United States during 2001, 17,448 people were killed in alcohol-related accidents

Marijuana related deaths: 0

I have smoked it for years, and NEVER overdosed, or had a traffic accident.
It is just another example of Government control

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Originally posted by: Maleficus
Completely stupid worthless law.

Seconded.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: javaconflicter
Alcohol related deaths per year: In the United States during 2001, 17,448 people were killed in alcohol-related accidents

Marijuana related deaths: 0

I have smoked it for years, and NEVER overdosed, or had a traffic accident.
It is just another example of Government control

Not to be rude, but your experiences are anecdotal at best. It's not really possible to overdose, unless you consider falling asleep an overdose.

I fully support every law that goes along with alcohol, for cannabis, in the event that it becomes legal. You shouldn't drive while intoxicated, period.

Regardless, I agree with your sentiment.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
That chart isn't accurate, and drinking alcohol in excess is also generally illegal, so it's a false comparison to compare legal use of alcohol, instead the proper comparison is to illegal use of alcohol, which is also..illegal.

In other words getting drunk is not legal, and there isn't a level of use of illegal narcotics that equates with moderate use of alcohol.

not to mention the affects of marijuana use take a very long time to completely go away and it's impractical to expect users are going to wait 3 weeks before operating a motor vehicle or undertaking other activities that put other people at risk.

Drinking alcohol "in excess" isn't illegal in any way shape or form(please correct me if I'm wrong).

Public drunkenness, DUI, etc.. are, however, and as I said.. they should be for any conciousness altering drug.

 

[Nocturnal]

When prohibition happend it all went underground. The mob/mafia started to control the alcohol/liquor market.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Nocturnal
When prohibition happend it all went underground. The mob/mafia started to control the alcohol/liquor market.

Which is exactly the way it is now with cannabis. It's stupid.

If they made it legal, prices would fall like a rock, it would no longer be worth it for the mob/mafia/drug dealers to deal with it.

Right now, it is worth almost as much as gold, ounce for ounce. I'm sure it would be worth less than half of that if it was regulated.

It's just stupid, it doesen't make any sense. It's like they cause the very problem they're trying to prevent with the drug war.

 

[IGBT]

Considering wide spread pre-employment/random on the job/post accident drug testing..do you really want that crap in your system..also consider drug testing is a growth industry looking to expand at every oppertunity. Even if it somehow becomes legal (medwana)..the drug testing issue won't go away...

 

[Amused]

Yep, just ask yourself when was the last time you heard of liquor dealers doing drive-by shootings on each other...

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: IGBT
Considering wide spread pre-employment/random on the job/post accident drug testing..do you really want that crap in your system..also consider drug testing is a growth industry looking to expand at every oppertunity. Even if it somehow becomes legal (medwana)..the drug testing issue won't go away...

You're right. But a job is voluntary. You can choose if you want to take a job that requires drug testing, or if you want to do drugs. Laws are not voluntary.

 

[AvesPKS]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: javaconflicter
Alcohol related deaths per year: In the United States during 2001, 17,448 people were killed in alcohol-related accidents

Marijuana related deaths: 0

I have smoked it for years, and NEVER overdosed, or had a traffic accident.
It is just another example of Government control

Not to be rude, but your experiences are anecdotal at best. It's not really possible to overdose, unless you consider falling asleep an overdose.

I fully support every law that goes along with alcohol, for cannabis, in the event that it becomes legal. You shouldn't drive while intoxicated, period.

Regardless, I agree with your sentiment.

Yeah, but just like all those car threads, I would tend to prefer thick description over statistical analysis any day.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Why was Prohibition overturned?

because it was doing more harm to people than good.

What reasons did they give at the time for over turning Prohibition? States are reducing penalities and chosing treatment over time in jail for drug offences because of the costs for putting people in jail.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Why was Prohibition overturned?

because it was doing more harm to people than good.

What reasons did they give at the time for over turning Prohibition? States are reducing penalities and chosing treatment over time in jail for drug offences because of the costs for putting people in jail.

1.)It did not solve the problem it was designed to: Drunken husbands coming home and beating their wives.

2.)People where dieing because of home brew

3.)Enforcement was expensive

4.)Being underground fulled organized crime

The fourth reason is why marijuana wasn't un-baned as well, because the majority of users where poor and it grew like a weed across the country.. making it very hard to control.. which meant that the ban was more a symbolic dis-agreement with it's use than the gestapo prohibition that was on alcohol.

 

[luv2chill]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
That chart isn't accurate, and drinking alcohol in excess is also generally illegal, so it's a false comparison to compare legal use of alcohol, instead the proper comparison is to illegal use of alcohol, which is also..illegal.

In other words getting drunk is not legal, and there isn't a level of use of illegal narcotics that equates with moderate use of alcohol.

not to mention the affects of marijuana use take a very long time to completely go away and it's impractical to expect users are going to wait 3 weeks before operating a motor vehicle or undertaking other activities that put other people at risk.

What the hell are you talking about? Since when is getting drunk illegal? If you're talking about walking the streets or driving a car while intoxicated then you're off topic. No one here is arguing that it should be legal to smoke weed and then go out joyriding. The point is that liquor laws and marijuana laws should be comparable, since marijuana is so benign.

The very fact that is is decriminalized in other "civilized" countries should be giving people pause. If it's such a bad, harmful thing, why do the canucks and the dutch not give a flying flip about possession of small amounts? Because they got their heads out of their asses and realised that their energy is best spent in other arenas.

The US has too many jobs and too much $$$$$$$$$ invested in the drug war. To do away with it would embarass a lot of people so it's not going to happen any time soon. Sad but true.

l2c