Is it possible to create a national election online voting booth...

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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on which one could vote in national elections, check to see if the vote was tabulated as cast, and be sure the technology is hack proof? There are doubts about the integrety of voting machines both before and after elections and fears and lies they have been tampered with and are tampered with to prove it. Would it be possible to create a mentod of voting in which the results would be instantly know at the end of the time for voting and at the same time be profoundly sure the results reflect the exact way the votes were cast?
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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on which one could vote in national elections, check to see if the vote was tabulated as cast, and be sure the technology is hack proof? There are doubts about the integrety of voting machines both before and after elections and fears and lies they have been tampered with and are tampered with to prove it. Would it be possible to create a mentod of voting in which the results would be instantly know at the end of the time for voting and at the same time be profoundly sure the results reflect the exact way the votes were cast?
Yes, Blockchain technology can do that.

Search on how Governance Tokens work on a blockchain.
 
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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
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Quantum computers.... might be an issue in the future.... but they're working on quantum encryption / blockchains as well.
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
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Sure, just make sure whoever is lying about election integrity get bankrupt.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Is it possible?
Absolutely!
Will people understand it and how it works? Absolutely not
Is it a good idea? NO
Rather than magical pronouncements, opinions offered without supporting reasoning, perhaps you might provide some reasons as to that opinion.

I don't know if it is a good idea or not. What I wanted to know before I got into that was if there were any alternatives at all to the way we vote now to the losing side claiming fraud, a way to vote the only way to dispute the results as a result of human interference was to demonstrate the results were hacked by actually hacking them publicly.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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Rather than magical pronouncements, opinions offered without supporting reasoning, perhaps you might provide some reasons as to that opinion.

I don't know if it is a good idea or not. What I wanted to know before I got into that was if there were any alternatives at all to the way we vote now to the losing side claiming fraud, a way to vote the only way to dispute the results as a result of human interference was to demonstrate the results were hacked by actually hacking them publicly.
Do you fully understand how crypto block chain works?
Do you use crypto currency to pay for stuff?
What percentage of the voting population can answer yes to both those questions?

Point is we have people that believe Chinese made Wi-Fi enabled thermostats somehow hacked into non internet connect or Wi-Fi connected or Bluetooth connected voting machines. How would they react to blockchain voting via the internet?
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Do you fully understand how crypto block chain works?
Do you use crypto currency to pay for stuff?
What percentage of the voting population can answer yes to both those questions?

Point is we have people that believe Chinese made Wi-Fi enabled thermostats somehow hacked into non internet connect or Wi-Fi connected or Bluetooth connected voting machines. How would they react to blockchain voting via the internet?
This reminds me of a joke my father used to tell. A teacher asked the students, :What are Rabies and what can be done about them?" A student answered, "Rabies is Jewish Priests and there ain't nutten you can do about um.."

I have no idea how crypto works nor do I use or have any. But if you can show me that my vote was counted as cast and so was everyone else's, and that nobody can show me they can change that, I don't really care what the nut cases say. I voted, I see it counted and I see it has not been changed and all others who say theirs were changed can be shown publicly to be wrong.

Thank you though, for expressing why you object. It is a rational concern, I think.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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How does the block chain know the person voting is allowed to vote?
Same way that you are allowed to vote in meatspace. You register your (wallet) address, and when election time rolls around, you get "airdropped" (mailed) a "governance token" (ballot), which you then "spend" (vote) using a dApp (voting booth) on the blockchain.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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Same way that you are allowed to vote in meatspace. You register your (wallet) address, and when election time rolls around, you get "airdropped" (mailed) a "governance token" (ballot), which you then "spend" (vote) using a dApp (voting booth) on the blockchain.
and we’re back to this:

I like the idea of digital voting, I don’t like the required complexity to do it properly, nor do I understand those complexities
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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and we’re back to this:

I like the idea of digital voting, I don’t like the required complexity to do it properly, nor do I understand those complexities
I don't understand how voting machines work and the right doesn't trust them either so what does it matter which system we use to vote if a Democrat win means tampering?
 
Feb 4, 2009
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I don't understand how voting machines work and the right doesn't trust them either so what does it matter which system we use to vote if a Democrat win means tampering?
A scanner that scans a paper ballot and does the tally is pretty easy to understand plus very simply to audit. No internet connection required.
A blockchain based voting setup is far more difficult to understand imo.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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A scanner that scans a paper ballot and does the tally is pretty easy to understand plus very simply to audit. No internet connection required.
A blockchain based voting setup is far more difficult to understand imo.
Really? You haven't noticed how profoundly stupid Republicans can be when they want to.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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Really? You haven't noticed how profoundly stupid Republicans can be when they want to.
Let’s not go into P&N territory. Overwhelming amount of people understand what a scanner is and have a concept of how they work. Nowhere near that many understand blockchain.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Let’s not go into P&N territory. Overwhelming amount of people understand what a scanner is and have a concept of how they work. Nowhere near that many understand blockchain.
I don't think that is an insurmountable issue. An electorate that can't trust expert opinion is already a fact of US daily life. The details don't really matter.
 
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manly

Diamond Member
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Hasn't Estonia been running elections (and many other govt. services) online for many years?
 

pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
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Couldn't you just print ballots with random numbers on them and then have the voters take a picture of the random number and then they could look up their random number online to verify their vote was counted correctly? No need for blockchain.
 
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Couldn't you just print ballots with random numbers on them and then have the voters take a picture of the random number and then they could look up their random number online to verify their vote was counted correctly? No need for blockchain.
Who generates the “random” number, who mails them or stuffs them into an envelope?
IMO the perfect process that is easily understood are paper ballots that go into a scanner that drops them into a lock box with restricted access. Scanners have been around for a long time, we all understand things can be scanned easily as in it’s not magical tech that makes the scanning possible. Scanning also leave a paper trail that can be audited if necessary.
Everything else either adds unnecessary complexity or puts someone in charge of who gets what ballots.
 

pete6032

Diamond Member
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Who generates the “random” number, who mails them or stuffs them into an envelope?
IMO the perfect process that is easily understood are paper ballots that go into a scanner that drops them into a lock box with restricted access. Scanners have been around for a long time, we all understand things can be scanned easily as in it’s not magical tech that makes the scanning possible. Scanning also leave a paper trail that can be audited if necessary.
Everything else either adds unnecessary complexity or puts someone in charge of who gets what ballots.
It shouldn't matter who generates them as long as that number is not linkable to a voter. For example the govt numbers ballots 1-100 and sends them to the polling place. Voters are given ballots to vote as they come in. Voters get a ballot and record their random number so they can check and verify their vote online later.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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It shouldn't matter who generates them as long as that number is not linkable to a voter. For example the govt numbers ballots 1-100 and sends them to the polling place. Voters are given ballots to vote as they come in. Voters get a ballot and record their random number so they can check and verify their vote online later.
That’s sort of my point, we’d be trusting one person to follow rules and as the 2016-2020 shitheads have shown we cannot trust that.
 

Shmee

Memory and Storage, Graphics Cards
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This is an interesting topic, and could be an option in the future, with blockchain technology. Problem I see, is it would require some major changes to election law and process, and I don't see state assembly's and congress able to get these technical details right, as they are lawmakers and politicians, not cryptographers.
 
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