If what is happening "now" is based on frame of reference, and for one person what is happening "now" will be what happens in the "future" for another person. How can we have free will if the future has already happened?
Is it possible for free will to exist?
- Thread starter Paul98
- Start date
Except we aren't, that is some of the basics we learn from relativity. Just look at the relativity of simultaneity. If I see a space ship moving by me at .5c and when I see the middle pass by me I see two lightning strikes at the front and back of the space ship that to me happen at the same time. On the space ship since it's moving with respect to me the middle of the space ship sees one strike first then the other strike. Then you go to the space ship, since they are not moving in their own frame of reference, and since the speed of light is constant, they see one lightning strike before the other. So in their frame of reference one lightning strike happens before the other.
So what is happening "now" for the me is different than what is happening "now" for the person on the spaceship. I'll find a link to a video that may explain it better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wteiuxyqtoM
I hate when that happens.
Now, explain to me how something like this could happen to any one of six billion inhabitants of earth tomorrow.
Now, explain to me how something like this could happen to any one of six billion inhabitants of earth tomorrow.
dank69
Lifer
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Just because you don't see it happen at the same time like someone else doesn't mean it didn't happen at the same time.
I dont know what your link has to do with free will or the future. You sure you are comprehending this correctly? That is a rhetroical question.
There are already ready things moving at .99c with respect to us. What is happening "now" for that object is ether a long time in the future for us, or a long time in the past depending on the direction of movement.
It sure as hell has to do with the future, past and what is happening now.
For the person on the platform, the two lightning strikes and the passenger being at the same place as the person all happen at the same time. For the person on the platform when the person on the train is right in front of him the new lighting strikes happen at that same time, the same "now".
Where as for the person on the train, when they see the person on the platform coming up, they have one lightning strike, then they get to where they are in front of the person then finally the other lightning strike happens. So for the person on the train when they are at the same place on the track as the person on the platform, one lightning strike as already happened and one is about to happen. Nether is more correct than the other, both are equally real. But what is happening "now" for one person may be what happened in the past or future in another.
Ok lets say you are standing in the middle of your house and you have a strike of lightning the front of your house, then a second later you have lightning strike the rear of your house. You see them happen a second apart, those clearly happened at different times for you correct?
Maybe we do have free will, but we don't have it in the way that making different decisions will change the future. We are already in the future, but to get there we had to "make decisions". For someone else we have already made the decision, but what's to say that the decision that we have already made isn't based on free will?
Also what is happening "now" or in the "past" or "future" if the light cone hasn't reached us yet can change. Take that same train video and when the train is at the platform stop the train.
Also what is happening "now" or in the "past" or "future" if the light cone hasn't reached us yet can change. Take that same train video and when the train is at the platform stop the train.
Perception doesn't always coincide with facts of reality. Nothing in your video or topic has to do with free will.
dank69
Lifer
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I saw them and heard them at different times, but that may or may not have anything to do with when they actually happened.
You are standing in the middle, the lightning strike happens at the frond at the back, you see them 1 second apart. Just look at the video how does the person on the platform know that the strikes happen at the same time?
If you are standing still in a field, you see lightning strike 1 mile away from you then a second later you see another lightning strike 1 mile away from you in the other direction. You would know they happened at different times.
and as shown in that video when something is "actually happening" is based on frame of reference.
My point is that if that says the "future has already happened", and everything we will do is already determined do we have free will?
dank69
Lifer
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No I am not, it's not perception, it IS REALITY
There is no universal frame of reference to say what is happening "Now". It's all relative.
Edit: and are you going to respond to what happens "now" with respect to you when standing in the field?
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dank69
Lifer
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We can use our frame of reference to help us determine when something we perceived actually happened. Someone else can use their frame of reference to help them determine when the same event they perceived actually happened. If calculations are done correctly, they will both find that the event happened at the same time even though they both perceived it happening at different times.
As has been pointed out several times, none of this has to do with free will.
Who's time? Which clocks are correct? They can agree THAT the event's happen, but won't agree WHEN the events happen. If the person on the train calculates when each of the lightning strikes happen they get two different times. When the person at the station calculates it they get the same time. That is if the clocks are synchronized in their own frame of reference.
If the future is already determined and you we can't change that doesn't have anything to do with free will?
Looks like I should have first made a thread about time and if the future already exists first. As most seem to be stuck on that.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
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Whether free will exists or is even possible is something we cannot answer but the question doesn't have issues because of "the future has happened". Whether it does in a any objective sense is irrelevant.
Thought experiment:
Suppose you wish to play the lottery and so will pick numbers. Unknown to anyone is that I have found a means to accurately determine the outcome. I currently have this ability and will have it in the future.
Why are your choices affected. Further, since this has happened in a concrete way, how did it affect my choices in selecting numbers before I even had the idea?
That isn't what is happening, a good analogy is that though you don't know how I will choose my numbers. But you know exactly when and what numbers I will choose. Do I have free will even though you know exactly when and what numbers I will choose? You know this years before I make the choose the numbers and it won't change between now and then.
It's like all the decisions I make in the future are set in stone and can not be changed. This post I am writing for me it seems like I am writing it now, but someone else I wrote this post a 100 years ago. So I feel like I made the decision, but if I was always going to make this decision is it really free will?
woolfe9998
Lifer
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