Is it possible for a Newcastle 939 to be 90nm?

[shepditch]

On pricewatch, if you look up the price for a 3200+ 939 90nm, you'll get SMK superstore as your first link with a shipped price of $179. The item description says 90nm - no problem, right?

Problem - if you go to the (non-90nm) link below it, you get the exact same SMK link and description and price. So I go to the site, and there's no specific mention of whether they're selling a 90nm chip, winchester or newcastle.

So I email them asking which chip it is that they're selling - there's only one 3200+ OEM option available on the site, and the retail box is $237, more in line with pricing elsewhere. I get a speedy response that I'm quoting below

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"current production of both the newcastle and winchester cores is 90nm. we dont separate the two different cache types. If you are looking for a winchester core we recommend that you purchase from avender that divides the items and sell them separately."
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Is this right? If it is, I'm sorely confused. I know this has been discussed to death, but here I am asking the question.
Obviously they're tech/customer service rep could be wrong - but is there any current production of 130nm 939-pin chips? If not, is it likely that SMK simply has a grab-bin of old+new 3200+ chips and whatever they happen upon first is what they're going to send to me?

These guys seem to have pretty good feedback via pricewatch (better than newegg, if you can believe it). Has anyone here dealt with them before? I'm wondering if I should just put in the order and take the chance of getting a 90nm chip? Obviously I can check it once I get it, but then how hard is it to return if it's the wrong part?

FINALLY
Should I even bother worrying about this? Would I be better off by pocketing the $50-ish I could save and just getting the 3000+ instead? I'm starting a new system from scratch and I'll be setting up with a K8N Neo4 and a MSI 6600GT. I know the 3000+ OC's well, but I have to assume that the 3200+ OC's even better with the 10x multiplier. I've already stressed my budget to the limit, so the extra $50 actually has some short-term significance. In the long run, will I regret settling for the 3000+?

whew. That was a fistful of typing for a guy who has spent most of his time lately reading around here. All opinions welcome.

Thanks.

 

[Jeff7181]

No, it's not possible. Just because it's written on PriceWatch or on a retailer's site doesn't make it true. And the response you got from them shows how ignorant they are to the issue. Newcastle and 90nm are mutually exclusive. The Newcastle core is 130nm, period. The 512k 90nm A64 core is the Winchester.

*EDIT* The confusion comes from people who don't understand exactly what the name of the core means. When the Newcastle core came out, people used that name to designate the difference between the 512k cache CPU's and the 1 MB CPU's. So because of people who weren't "in the know," Newcastle started to mean 512k L2 cache. But not ALL 512k cache Athlon-64's (in either socket configuration) are Newcastles.

 

[shepditch]

Thanks for confirming that *I* wasn't the insane part of the equation.

Now I'm still left with the issue of what to do about 3000 vs. 3200. I did email SMK back to ask for clarification. If they confirm that the chip is 90nm (no matter what they want to call it - AMD's calling it a winnie) I'm pulling the trigger. If not, I'm back to peeking into my wallet to make a decision...

 

[Jeff7181]

There's two things to consider... price, and motherboards. Some motherboards are capable of running HTT at 300+ ... other ones (probably older ones) seem to top out around 240. If the motherboard is capable of speeds that high, by all means, go with a 90nm 3000+ ... if not, you'll probably want to go with a 3200, or even 3500 so you have a larger multiplier to work with.

 

[clarkey01]

the 4000+ with 1 meg cache is the example, its a newcastle, yet has double the 512k cache.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: clarkey01
the 4000+ with 1 meg cache is the example, its a newcastle, yet has double the 512k cache.

It's most definately NOT a Newcastle. ALL Newcastle cores have 512k L2 cache on the core... it's 100% impossible for more L2 cache to magically show up... the transistors are simply not there. Half of it can be disabled like they did with the early 512k L2 Clawhammer models before they started making the Newcastle core, but the Clawhammer core still had all the transistors for a 1 MB cache, they were just disabled for the 512k models before the Newcastle showed up. The 4000+ is the Clawhammer core.

 

[Jeraden]

All 939 3000+ and 3200+ are 90nm winchesters. There is no such thing as a 130nm 939 3000+ or 3200+.

Btw, I was looking at that SMK site too and was getting confused. They got pretty bad reseller-ratings. I ended up buying a 3200+ from ewiz.com, its 178.71, but you do have to pay some shipping on top of it. I just didn't feel comfortable ordering from SMK. Even with the shipping, its still cheaper than most other reliable places. They also have a good price on a small tube of arctic silver 5.
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=A643200939#

Actually, it sound we are building the same system.
I got the MSI Neo4 and the MSI 6600GT PCIE from zipzoomfly yesterday as well.

 

[richardrds]

yeah, what Jeraden said!!!

S939 3000+ and 3200+ were only released on the Winchester core. The 3500+ was released on the Newcastle core first, then the Winchester core.

 

[shepditch]

Thanks for the info, folks. I think I'm going to go with the ewiz chip for the reasons you describe, Jeraden. I got another reply from SMK this morning, however, and it seems that the chips they have are the winchesters. Of course, if there's no such animal as a 939-pin 3200+, then I guess it would have to be, now wouldn't it...

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We have been told that all production of 939 pin AMD Athlon 64 3200+ are using
the 90nm assembly. We order the items as an Athlon 64 3200+ not as an Athlon 64
3200+ / Winchester or Athlon 64 3200+ / Newcastle. We know that if we chose to
we could look up the stepping code / part code on each item and separate the two
cores, but because of the complication and work involved vs the potential
profit, we do not choose to try to sell the two revisions separately.
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Either way, I'm ordering this AM and should be building next week. I'm stoked. Here's what I'm looking at:

MSI K8N Neo4
Athlon64 3200+
Thermalright xp-90 HS
MSI NX6600GT
Seagate Barracuda NCQ 160gb
Antec slk3000b case - I love the clean lines of this case
Fortron blue storm PSU
Corsair Value 512x2 RAM


Jeraden - I'll be interested to hear how your build/OC goes - please post your results. I'm hoping that there will be more than a few systems like ours out there so I can get more specific info on oc'ing this board and processor combo. I'm new to OC'ing so I've been doing a lot of reading. I'll probably run stock for a while until I see how more experienced users are making out...

 

[slash196]

The 4000+ is a Hammer core.

 

[shepditch]

one last thing - SMK warrantees their OEM chip for 1 year (ewiz is 6months) and you can extend that to 3 years for $10 (@SMK). I can't see the processor failing (outside of an immediate problem) unless I burn it up - not warranteed for that - but it might affect someone's purchase decision.

Oh yeah, and the arctic silver at ewiz is less than half what it is at SMK.

Ok, I go now.